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 Post subject: S.M.A.R.T. discrepancy
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:35 pm 
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It seems the directory on my internal drive does not remain efficient for very long, and that concerns me. And, as I consider running Disk Warrior on it again, I first had it check files and folders, and then noticed that DW reports that the "hard drive does not have built-in S.M.A.R.T. diagnostics." Yet, Disk Utility tells me the S.M.A.R.T. status of the disk is "verified."

What am I not understanding?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:06 pm 
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Basically, the short answer is that SMART isn't very smart. And not very reliable. Have heard of situations where SMART showed "verified" just before total disk failure.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:34 pm 
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http://scsc-online.com/Bad%20Hard%20Drive%20Signs%20and%20Symptoms.html

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:02 pm 
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SMART not so... one drive had SMART warnings for years before it went, another got it's first SMART report & was dead before I could turn around.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:23 pm 
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If you are not scared of the command line, you can get SmartmonTools from
sourceforge and install it. May take some tinkering to get it to work as SIP
screws with you a bit at first. Anyway, it will give you heaps of HD info
when you get it working, such as in the example below from a disk on
my computer (Mac pro 5,1, macOS 10.12.6):

betsy7:~ klk$ /usr/local/sbin/smartctl -a disk3
smartctl 7.0 2018-12-30 r4883 [Darwin 16.7.0 x86_64] (sf-7.0-1)
Copyright (C) 2002-18, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, http://www.smartmontools.org

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Model Family: Western Digital RE4
Device Model: WDC WD2003FYYS-02W0B1
Serial Number: WD-WMAY04167687
LU WWN Device Id: 5 0014ee 2b152b900
Firmware Version: 01.01D02
User Capacity: 2,000,398,934,016 bytes [2.00 TB]
Sector Size: 512 bytes logical/physical
Rotation Rate: 7200 rpm
Device is: In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
ATA Version is: ATA8-ACS (minor revision not indicated)
SATA Version is: SATA 3.0, 3.0 Gb/s (current: 3.0 Gb/s)
Local Time is: Tue Oct 1 19:04:11 2019 PDT
SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
SMART support is: Enabled

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED

General SMART Values:
Offline data collection status: (0x82) Offline data collection activity
was completed without error.
Auto Offline Data Collection: Enabled.
Self-test execution status: ( 0) The previous self-test routine completed
without error or no self-test has ever
been run.
Total time to complete Offline
data collection: (30960) seconds.
Offline data collection
capabilities: (0x7b) SMART execute Offline immediate.
Auto Offline data collection on/off support.
Suspend Offline collection upon new
command.
Offline surface scan supported.
Self-test supported.
Conveyance Self-test supported.
Selective Self-test supported.
SMART capabilities: (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering
power-saving mode.
Supports SMART auto save timer.
Error logging capability: (0x01) Error logging supported.
General Purpose Logging supported.
Short self-test routine
recommended polling time: ( 2) minutes.
Extended self-test routine
recommended polling time: ( 300) minutes.
Conveyance self-test routine
recommended polling time: ( 5) minutes.
SCT capabilities: (0x303f) SCT Status supported.
SCT Error Recovery Control supported.
SCT Feature Control supported.
SCT Data Table supported.

SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x002f 200 200 051 Pre-fail Always - 7
3 Spin_Up_Time 0x0027 253 253 021 Pre-fail Always - 8533
4 Start_Stop_Count 0x0032 098 098 000 Old_age Always - 2839
5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 200 200 140 Pre-fail Always - 0
7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x002e 200 200 000 Old_age Always - 0
9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 063 063 000 Old_age Always - 27582
10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 0
11 Calibration_Retry_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 0
12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 098 098 000 Old_age Always - 2024
192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032 198 198 000 Old_age Always - 1702
193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age Always - 1136
194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022 117 102 000 Old_age Always - 35
196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age Always - 0
197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age Always - 0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0030 200 200 000 Old_age Offline - 0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age Always - 0
200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate 0x0008 200 200 000 Old_age Offline - 0

SMART Error Log Version: 1
No Errors Logged
-------------
https://download.freedownloadmanager.org/Mac-OS/Smartmontools/FREE-7.0.1.html

note: info is formatted correctly in terminal window in nice straight columns :)

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:44 pm 
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OK, I'll forget about the S.M.A.R.T. technology, then. Instead, let me ask this: what usually causes directory corruption?

The reason I'm wondering about this is because (and I realize it's a stretch because I'm really just guessing) I asked my Easy Find app to search the contents of plain text, Word and PDF files located within a number of folders for a text phrase that I know exists somewhere within... and Easy Find didn't find it. But I've used Easy Find this way many times before and it has always found what I was looking for. So, when it failed to find the text phrase, my first thought was that maybe Spotlight hadn't indexed the drive in a while, so I initiated that. No luck after that, either. And that's when I considered, if a directory was messed up, maybe the file the text phrase is in is not being "seen."

So, I launched Disk Warrior to just check the status of the drive's directory. The directory's efficiency had dropped to a "9" since I last rebuilt the directory only a couple of months ago. Of course, I realize a "9" isn't reason to rebuild the directory again, so that's why I'm puzzled as to why Easy Find cannot find that text phrase.

With a little extra information, I was able to find the file in question manually, but I can't imagine what the problem with Easy Find might be.

Any ideas?

Thanks!

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:02 pm 
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I just found out why Easy Find didn't find that text phrase: even though I added the extensions docx and pdf to the file types to search, Easy Find apparently doesn't search them. It will find text inside files with extensions doc and ppt (plus txt and others), and the phrase I was looking for happened to be in a docx file.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:07 pm 
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Perhaps your disk is too full (not enough free space).

That can cause slowdowns and occasional input-output errors.

Is your HDD an SSD or platter type?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:19 am 
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Thanks, kjk555. The disk is the platter type and there is over half the full capacity available.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:51 am 
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Quote:
Instead, let me ask this: what usually causes directory corruption?

For me, here, starting with the 1st 266 MHz Beige to hit Seattle, it was the OEM 32 GB RAM stick, took me 4 months to figure that out & by that time Apple's 90 Warranty was gone. The OEM HDD died itself at 6 months, so it was likely a combo deal.

But later Disk Corruption was mainly connector or power issues I believe.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:14 am 
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Mike:

I just remembered; There is a GUI smart utility for OSX.
You can find it here:

https://www.volitans-software.com/apps/smart-utility/

It is based on (and uses) the free smartmontools executables, but gives you
a more friendly interface than the terminal. Me being being part geek and tight with
my funds, I ditched it years ago (when free trial expired) in favor of the free smartmontools.
The developer charges $25 bucks for a license (basically for renting his GUI interface).

I did buy smartreporter (it sits in the top menu bar), but it only gives a pass or fail report,
but it is always running and monitoring the drives. Since I'm booting from a raid array,
It can't monitor those disks, but it monitors everything else.

I'll give some troubleshooting tips in the next post. :)

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Last edited by kjk555 on Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:42 am 
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When I upgraded to Sierra, I did notice that Sierra is very picky about older
third party software that previously worked flawlessly. It would still run most
of them, but seemed to be laboring along and unhappy. After updating everything
in sight, Sierra settled down and is functioning marvelously. Make sure all third
party software is Sierra compatible.

A fragmented hard drive (especially platter types) can seriously affect performance
and stability.

If you need a good defrag program, visit the coriolis systems museum and get
the free one for Sierra (iDefrag 5.3.1 and the license), before they shut the site down:
https://coriolis-systems.com/

Of course the easiest (and probably the fastest way to defrag) if your drive is
fragmented badly, is to back up everything to a bootable external disk,
boot from the external, repartition and reformat your main boot drive and
then restore all your files to the main boot drive with Carbon Copy Cloner (5.1.11 for Sierra)
or time machine.

If you are using a different backup program, make sure it is compatible with Sierra.

Another free tool that is incredibly useful for "tuning up" Sierra is Onyx
https://www.titanium-software.fr/en/onyx.html

Of course, if your drive doesn't initially pass the Smart Utility software test with flying colors,
then it's probably best to consider replacing it.
:coffee:

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"We are the Messengers between Time and its Keeper."


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:00 pm 
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An old boss of mine referred to that method as the Novell defrag, because Novell servers didn't support any kind of defragmentation so the only way to defrag them was to copy the contents to a new volume, then rename the volumes so people would start using the new volume instead.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:56 pm 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
An old boss of mine referred to that method as the Novell defrag, because Novell servers didn't support any kind of defragmentation so the only way to defrag them was to copy the contents to a new volume, then rename the volumes so people would start using the new volume instead.


MonkeyBoy,
Remember the good 'ol days we used to spend lots of time salvaging hard disk drives?

Did you ever use the windows disk utility SpinRite from Gibson Research?

I revived a lot of drives using that utility. It did a good job of finding bad sectors,
marking them unusable and restoring the drive back to usable status.

What Fun! :lol:

Believe it or not, it still works on late model drives with an ide to sata 48bit LBA
convertor on an older IDE machine to accommodate sata drives up to 137GB.

Not a large drive by todays standards of course. Still useful on some legacy equipment though.

Too bad Steve Gibson stopped development on it.

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"We are the Messengers between Time and its Keeper."


Last edited by kjk555 on Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:12 am 
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I remember running SCSI low level formats to recover bad sectors. Never really used spinrite, though I've heard of it.

A guy I used to work with figured out a drive containing critical data that wasn't backed up was sending 7 bits of data instead of 8 but also sent a parity bit. He designed a circuit to recreate the missing bit from parity. In real time. First time he connected it up it didn't work so he shortened all the wires on his breadboard and then it worked like a charm. The person who had lost this data promptly copied all the data off to another drive, then from there to a second drive. Last I heard the guy who designed the circuit was making 8 figures, and if there's a guy on this planet I don't begrudge making that kind of money, it's him.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:25 pm 
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Discrepancy Issue Solved.

I do use Onyx occasionally (although I don't know without launching it now whether it has a S.M.A.R.T. function), and I had also occasionally used iDefrag, but I lean toward favoring Apple's recommendation that drives running OS X don't need to be defragged unless a drive's contents are seriously fragmented.

But, with the help of Alsoft (the Disk Warrior folks), I found out why DW was misrepresenting the S.M.A.R.T. status of the startup drive when running it from the startup drive. And that was because I also had occasionally used the Cocktail utility, which also checks S.M.A.R.T. status. However, I believed all along that it performed this check only when launching the app. I didn't realize (and the app doesn't make it clear) that from the point when Cocktail is run for the first time, it automatically checks S.M.A.R.T. status in the background on, apparently, a predetermined schedule. And Cocktail's S.M.A.R.T. checker was interfering with that of Disk Warrior. After disabling the automatic Cocktail routine, Disk Warrior now reports S.M.A.R.T. status accurately, and says my drive is fine.

I rather like solvable mysteries. Thanks for all the feedback and suggestions.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:29 pm 
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Wow, good news, great work, thanks Mike! :)


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