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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:11 pm 
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BDAqua wrote:
It looks like one 8 GB for now with one 2GB left in will be good,cabn always add another 8 GB later if needed... replacing a 2 GB with a 4GB doesn't sound worthwhile really


Ah, OK, got it . . . new 8 + old 2 . . . that will sound like "more" . . . . Any way to try to check whether the new stick would be compatible with the old one?? Doesn't seem like anybody other than ST is saying that "mix and not matched" RAM sticks might be problematic??

I don't know if the Mini is "more friendly to foreigners" than my cMP was/is on the RAM front. I tried to use OWC RAM only a couple months later and they had "switched vendors" . . . possibly going either to Mexico or to China made within months . . . . Any chance that Crucial (seems to be more cost than OWC for this computer) . . . but would their manufacturer tend to be more consistent, or it's all the same stuff just badged and made wherever it's cheapest?????


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:46 pm 
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Crucial is a division of Micron, who is a memory manufacturer.

OWC just slaps their name on other peoples parts, which is how most RAM companies are these days. The more expensive ones lock in exclusive deals on certain parts. Now given OWC's warranty they are particular about parts, but its a whole other ballgame to Crucial, who actually manufactures the chips on the DIMMs as well as the circuit boards... not many can say that.

That being said there's no guarantee that they won't change timings in six months. If you buy system specific memory you have a better chance avoiding that, but it's the most expensive type of RAM. In part because they have to keep everything the same and not just shuffle things around based on supply and demand.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:21 am 
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I think the cautions about RAM are not to do with Apple's, Crucial, or OWC RAM, but the cheaper PC types... but in worst case you'll just not use the 2 GB stick & only have 8GB, but I doubt that.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:37 am 
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@MB: Thanks for the details . . . obviously there are no "guarantees" . . . but I am with you on the "Crucial is good stuff" train . . . and that might be a way to increase the odds of some compatibility in the future. I know OWC stands behind their stuff as well, and nothing wrong with it, I just found that issue of problems with non-matching RAM in maybe three months or less . . . which, if it's a one time decision might not be an issue.

@BD: Right, I think the general PC guys would be laughing about how much OWC & Crucial RAM costs, so either way we aren't bargain basement shopping . . . and, right, if we go one 8, even if the two in there isn't friendly it would still be double, etc.

@et al: So I'm assuming that the Mini Ram is like laptop RAM install, but since I haven't done different capacities before, does it matter which one goes in first if one is larger than the other? OR, I could just pop the "top" one out and pop the new 8 in??? OR, best to pop everything out, then put the 8 in first, then the 2 or 4???

TTG


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:35 am 
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I don't think order matters unless dealing with 2 or more pairs.+


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:26 am 
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BDAqua wrote:
I don't think order matters unless dealing with 2 or more pairs.+


Alrighty, thanks . . . I guess the decision will be made in . . . a day or so . . . . I'll post back with any gory details . . . or ungory, whichever . . . when we get there. Seems like the R & R isn't too bad for a Mac . . . . :whip:


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:41 am 
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Haven't looked for anything there in quite a while, but when I needed RAM for the 2010 Mini, I found the best price for Crucial Mac RAM was at newegg. Might be worth looking into for what you need now.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:00 am 
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WZZZ wrote:
Haven't looked for anything there in quite a while, but when I needed RAM for the 2010 Mini, I found the best price for Crucial Mac RAM was at newegg. Might be worth looking into for what you need now.


@WZZZ:

OK, thanks for the reminder on newegg . . . I'll check it.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:13 am 
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Popping back in here.

I would avoid adding a single DIMM. You want same timings on both slots, meaning you want a two DIMM kit. Timings don't simply matter for "cheaper PC types". Timings are timings are timings. That's why they're called timings and not Microns or Crucials. They are universal between brands, and matching them prevents issues that you cannot resolve on Macs since they have no human facing BIOS to change timings. Under normal circumstances mixed timings on DIMMs means the slowest is used for compatibility, but that does not mean the DIMM(s) being slowed will behave properly since they are then being altered from their factory set timings.

Go for either 8 GB (2x 4 GB) or 16 GB (2x 8 GB). Otherwise, you may find stability goes out the window.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:26 am 
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Squishy Tia wrote:
Popping back in here.

I would avoid adding a single DIMM. You want same timings on both slots, meaning you want a two DIMM kit. Timings don't simply matter for "cheaper PC types". Timings are timings are timings. That's why they're called timings and not Microns or Crucials. They are universal between brands, and matching them prevents issues that you cannot resolve on Macs since they have no human facing BIOS to change timings. Under normal circumstances mixed timings on DIMMs means the slowest is used for compatibility, but that does not mean the DIMM(s) being slowed will behave properly since they are then being altered from their factory set timings.

Go for either 8 GB (2x 4 GB) or 16 GB (2x 8 GB). Otherwise, you may find stability goes out the window.


@ST:

Thanks for popping back in . . . in life "timing is EVERYTHING" . . . I get it . . . . :coffee:

[edit:] Order has been placed, crucial RAM, 8 + 8 . . . from newegg . . . . :fishsmack:
Seems to be the correct items . . . . :classic-eek: :emphatic-eek: [/edit]


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:03 pm 
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What speed is your RAM? That matters too. Got a link to the RAM you bught?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:40 pm 
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Squishy Tia wrote:
What speed is your RAM? That matters too. Got a link to the RAM you bught?


ST:

It should be the "right speed" . . . it matched the OWC page data in comparison . . . better half has that link, she pulled the trigger on it w/o going into it too much DDR3L 1600 ??12800??? MacMini6,1

Because she is a Cap I didn't get into the precise details, but I think this is the linked product she bought?? https://www.newegg.com/crucial-16gb-204-pin-ddr3-so-dimm/p/N82E16820148609


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:59 pm 
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If that's what she bought it should work. And the beachballing should be gone after that except in rare instances she has a crapton of apps open all at once. :)

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:24 pm 
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Squishy Tia wrote:
If that's what she bought it should work. And the beachballing should be gone after that except in rare instances she has a crapton of apps open all at once. :)


@ST:

Thanks for playing . . . yep, after your post I checked everymac and it seemed like all the ducks lined up . . . and, yep 16 is "maxed" so, the only other thing to do if there are further BB-ing or other issues, would be to nuke n pave 10.14 . . . but she doesn't seem to want to "go backward" . . . which in the case of OSX might be the best direction . . . .


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:46 pm 
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Hey, I'm still on 10.12.6 because I need that FTP server. I have an Android phone and OS X has no MTP drivers, and Android File Transfer has never worked properly (or at all) on the Mac side, so I have to use AndFTP on the phone and upload/download stuff to and from the computer that way. No FTP server, no way to get stuff onto my OS X drive unless I first go to Windows, transfer there, and then copy the stuff over from the Windows drive while in OS X (you can read NTFS drives in OS X, just not write to them). That doesn't solve my download needs, only upload. So yay, stuck with 10.12.6 until I can budget an Interarchy license. Then I can move to 10.13.6 for better graphics stability.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:58 pm 
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@ST:

Nothing at all wrong with OSX 10.12 . . . really no reason to bump up to 13 other than for the time until there will be "lack of support" from Apple . . . . For me there are never enough OSs . . . but I don't really think there are significant differences between the recent OSXs . . . .

I certainly wouldn't pay money for something to get me up to 10.13 from 12 . . . after spending dough on the video card to get up to 10.14 . . . and then finding out Apple dropped the cMP for 10.15, etc . . . .

I recommend some form of linux . . . they are on the move . . . .


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:28 am 
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Heh. Yeah, a lot of gamers are using Manjaro as their linux distro. I really need to get back into linux and make this a tri-boot system.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:33 am 
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Squishy Tia wrote:
Heh. Yeah, a lot of gamers are using Manjaro as their linux distro. I really need to get back into linux and make this a tri-boot system.


@ST:

I don't know gaming world, but I just bumped into Manjaro at the beginning of the year, not a bad system, I just had a hard time with Arch some years back and just never went down that road, but Manjaro is worth checking . . . .

But I brought it up because you mentioned FTP . . . it's been a few years since I messed with that as a way to connect my two PPC computers and move files . . . but linux I haven't messed with that, but some have mentioned "SSH"???? This is from memory, but seemed like it was for moving data via the console???

The great joy of debian/ubuntu is that using "mkusb" app you could make a "persistent live" usb drive of the live iso, and boot the computer from the drive, test out a system, and even do updates to the iso . . . which are "persistent."

Today I'm running Gecko Rolling . . . also not a bad system . . . a choice of from 5 linux and perhaps 6 OSX partitions, more to come.

TTG


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:00 am 
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While we're on ftp, there's Cyber Duck...

https://cyberduck.io/


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:29 am 
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BDAqua wrote:
While we're on ftp, there's Cyber Duck...

https://cyberduck.io/


I like the sound of "Mountain Duck" . . . whatever that duck does, I want it . . . . :welcome:


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:31 pm 
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In theory one could add the ftp server from something like macports or... crap what's the other big one... homebrew (thanks google). However that's just the ftp daemon part, I'm sure Apple gutted the entire FTP framework to make it so you need to reinvent that wheel too on later OSes for GUI apps.

Apple gutting OS X server is really getting ridiculous. Every version they rip out something else of value. I honestly have given up on it at this point.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:19 am 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
Apple gutting OS X server is really getting ridiculous. Every version they rip out something else of value. I honestly have given up on it at this point.


@MB:

Yep . . . as we've spoken here numerous times, really they are a "pad" company and iOS is where the "juice" is going.

Today is U-MATE 20.10/devel day . . . on my cMP . . . take that mr Apple, take that . . . . :coffee: :coffee: :coffee: :coffee: :badteeth: :whip:


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:50 pm 
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Latest update:

So ze RAM arrived a couple days back, and without much preparation or thought I opened the package with two sticks of 8 GB Crucial RAM via Newegg association . . . they weren't packaged **together** but were both 8 from Crucial . . . .

Having watched a video on the RAM installation previously I thought the process had a couple of extra steps, but looking at the iFix-it instruction page it seemed even simpler . . . twist off the child proof screw top lid . . . push back on the clips holding the RAM . . . then just like in the Mac laptop . . . RAM "pops" up and takes a little jiggling to get it out of the connector slots . . . easy-peasy. In the case of the old 2 GB sticks both of them were what I would call "face up" . . . both label sides were "up" when looking at it from the removal aspect, i.e., bottom up.

But, when I went to put the new RAM back in, the first/bottom one was aligned with the connectors as the old were, face up with words "crucial" facing up . . . but the second stick wold not line up with the offset connectors going face up, I didn't count but the smaller number is on the right side of the slot. I noticed that the tabs were double-sided, so I flipped the stick "down" . . . with the small "squares" facing up . . . so the two sticks were "facing each other" . . . and clicked them in.

Leaving the coffee can lid off I plugged in the power and the unit immediately power on . . . one thing I can say is that the '12 mini does not boot up quickly . . . takes a few moments to "think it over" . . . I didn't have the display plugged in, might have had to reboot or cold boot . . . I was worried about how "picky" Apple's can be with RAM . . . and this seemed to be "different" than what was in . . . back to face, etc . . . but, on reboot . . . we auto-logged in and we were off to the . . . internet.

I checked About this Mac >memory . . . and it showed that all is well . . . clicked the coffee can lid back into position. Good to go. Thanks for the comments here . . . it helped to thrash through some of the details before buying impulsively.

Personally I prolly would have gone 8 GB for the Mini, but she went 16 GB . . . which did seem to improve the "sleep" function for her . . . . I don't know whether adding more than the 16 GB RAM I have on my '12 Mac Pro would improve the 10.14/15 system's ability to sleep???? I'm sure the machine "would use it" . . . but, trying to keep the power draw as "reasonable" as possible on my gas guzzler cMP . . . V8 engine with the Quad-core throttle body fuel injection . . . so the "miserly" version of the V8 package.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:27 pm 
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RAM power draw in sleep mode on a Mac Pro is miniscule. We're talking less than a single SSD at idle. It isn't as low as the modern machines can draw, but then again, the RAM used in the MPs isn't low power either (i.e. it isn't LPDDR), so that's to be expected.

As for the issue with sleep, that comes down to OS version and timings. The original DIMMs in the mini might have had bad timings preventing proper sleep/wake. Sleep doesn't work right on any Mac unless all things are aligned properly. They're just that picky.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:33 pm 
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Squishy Tia wrote:
RAM power draw in sleep mode on a Mac Pro is miniscule. We're talking less than a single SSD at idle. It isn't as low as the modern machines can draw, but then again, the RAM used in the MPs isn't low power either (i.e. it isn't LPDDR), so that's to be expected.

As for the issue with sleep, that comes down to OS version and timings. The original DIMMs in the mini might have had bad timings preventing proper sleep/wake. Sleep doesn't work right on any Mac unless all things are aligned properly. They're just that picky.


@ST:

Thanks for the convo . . . it wasn't the power draw of the RAM in sleep that I was considering, but the draw when "woke" and running, i.e., more RAM clearly uses more power, so finding the "just right" quantity of RAM . . . to bring the machine into "proper alignment" with the OS . . . while possibly being "reasonable" to run . . . would be my personal "quest."

I found that my machine didn't reliably "sleep" or sleep at all when running the ??APFS?? installs that I now have off in drive #4 bay running patcher 10.15 . . . but, over here now in my cloned 10.13 HFS+ install . . . it seems to sleep fairly well. Nothing like in my linux systems where I can click "suspend" and either I have to answer the "are you sure?" question OR, it will just "do it" . . . quickly.

But, yes, the Mini was or is a "budget bomber" "steal of the century" . . . so possibly the RAM that came out with it wasn't high spec . . . but it could have just been that the 4 GB is not nearly enough to run 10.14, and now we have "the juice"????


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