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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:37 pm 
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It shouldn't be touching the shelf so long as you've fitted the back of the card into the chassis slot properly. The holes in the chassis slot should line up with the screw holes in the card. It should only droop if the card isn't lined up properly. Its a bit of a black art with Mac Pros I'm afraid, took me a half dozen systems before I figured out how the hell to make it work.

Also that bottom metal plate should have a plastic film on it, or at least all the 3,1 systems I've encountered have one.

You could also mount the card in one of the upper PCIe slots, one of them is also an x16.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:31 pm 
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The best way to ensure that the card isn't drooping from the getgo is to lay the system on its side and install the card that way so you can easily tell if the card is leaning any. With the system on its side, the card should be pointing perfectly straight up when aligned properly. Once locked into place, it shouldn't move. Should the shelf have bare metal on it, electrician's tape could be used to prevent conductivity in the event of a touch, but I've never seen any Mac Pro have a problem with that. Otherwise we'd have had a flurry of reports to the contrary over the years from people that used GPUs other than those provided by Apple.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:07 pm 
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I just want somebody to say, "It's OK . . ." . . . :shock:

usually if things are slotting into the slot and the bar slides over, and the thumb screws are thumbing in, then it should "be in place, properly" ?????

My question is whether the card exterior is conducting power through the bottom of the card . . . such that it needs to be held away or grounded . . . . It would only be something like 1/8" or less that would be "tilting" . . . it seemed to line up with the . . . what is it? The 16 prong slot or whatever that the card has to slide into, that seemed to go well . . . .

Seems like if the "tray" isn't needed then it might be "similar" to all the other kids with Mac Pro aftermarket cards???

:classic-eek: :emphatic-eek: :bonk:

edit: After I posted the above, I pulled the cover off again and looked at the card, and on the display plug-in side it's a healthy 3/32" gap, and on the back end toward the grey fan box, it's like a thickish paper thickness off of the shelf . . . I'm declaring executive priv and I'm issuing a "pardon" on this installation . . . after I do the dishes and take a shower I'll try to power it up and see if it can figure out which HD to boot from . . . . I did add the Nvidia drivers to the three versions of OSX, and seems like all the linux partitions have "nouveau" installed . . . we'll see what happens with the alt key held down . . . for as long as it takes to boot . . . something . . . two HDs with each having multi-boot partitions on it . . . should be "interesting" like much of what I do . . . . :whip:


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:45 pm 
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Alrighty, happy to say that I am booted up in OSX 10.13.6 . . . all seems to be running OK vis the newly installed GTX 780 card . . . no sparks flying out from behind the cover, etc. Does seem like web pages in the browser are loading a bit faster than with the old default Radeon card . . . . I would like to offer kudos to the XLR8YRMAC.com blog that listed links to the specific CUDA driver for each version of OSX, whereas the MacVid site just linked to a long list of CUDA drivers without any indication as to which version of OSX they would work with . . . Thanks to the XLR8 folks for that good data . . . will check to see if now the CUDA versions of dnetc will work to kick out more crunches in less time . . . in a few days . . . .

I guess 10.14 isn't available yet? searching the app store to see if it would now show up on my machine as a "qualifier" . . . still showing High Sierra on the server . . . searching for "macOS mojave beta" that autofilled . . . showed "no results found."

The only quote that is now bothering me is:

MonkeyBoy wrote:
All cables must be plugged in, nvidia cards need stupid crazy amounts of power.


Does this mean that the basic power to run the Mac 5,1 will now go stratospheric beyond the 300 watt level to something like 1000 watts?? Or that would only be if I was crunching bitcoins or dnetc stuff, and otherwise it's more or less the "usual" 3 100 watt bulbs burning at once just to see stuff on the interweb??

eep


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:30 pm 
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The only way to get the beta is to sign up for the public beta, which typically means creating a developer account (the lowest tier of which is free). Then you have to wait and see if they email you an offer to join the beta.

They invited me this time around and I passed. I have enough trouble getting a fully working 10.13 setup going (after all the legacy apps that it KIA).

The GPU needs 8 pin and 6 pin power because its drawing that much power. The GPU will only draw whatever it needs to draw though, but the more GPU intensive your operations the more power it will draw.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:18 pm 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
The only way to get the beta is to sign up for the public beta, which typically means creating a developer account (the lowest tier of which is free). Then you have to wait and see if they email you an offer to join the beta.

They invited me this time around and I passed. I have enough trouble getting a fully working 10.13 setup going (after all the legacy apps that it KIA).

The GPU needs 8 pin and 6 pin power because its drawing that much power. The GPU will only draw whatever it needs to draw though, but the more GPU intensive your operations the more power it will draw.


@MB:

Ah, OK, I think you or someone mentioned this before, since that other gent from State of Jeffer posted that he had 10.14 installed, I was thinking that it might be "ready" for prime time . . . . But, right, no need to rush into the latest and greatest; after many times of "blindly" upgrading to the newest OSX I finally got the chops to cut the HD and use the new partition to install the new upgrade, while keeping the "old" partition with the "old" applications . . . and test out the new system, while having access to the "old" system applications, from within the new one . . . rather than getting stuck losing applications with each new upgrade . . . . It's one area where linux offering a livedvd of the system is superior to the Apple way of "have to install it to see it" method. The multi-boot option is a workaround to that "install first" problem; it sort of got out of hand in the MP with two HDs cut into a bunch of partitions . . . but, I have a range of OSX systems . . . available on reboot . . . . :fishsmack:

I'll be checking to see how the new card plays with my linux distros over the coming days . . . and then gathering a few more items, SSD, so that whenever 14 goes "full tilt" . . . the machine should be "ready" . . . ??? Haven't had the thought of looking for the "Friend to Metal" label in the About this Mac window . . . .


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:23 pm 
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One note, OWC does offer a drive sled for the Mac Pros so a 2.5" SATA SSD will line up without issues. Otherwise you have to get a 2.5" to 3.5" adapter that will fit into the Mac Pro's existing drive sled AND is oriented so that it lines up with the motherboard's ports. Someone or other used to make such a thing but the only thing I've seen recently is OWC's replacement sled.

Or if you were made out of money you could get a M.2 SSD and a PCIe to M.2 adapter... but ??? if it'll be bootable.

BTW, if it wasn't clear, the public beta program is something you can optionally sign up for. Now that I think about it anyone with an Apple ID can request to be in it, but I think they give preferential access to developers. At one point you had to be a developer to sign up but I think that went away a while ago.

https://beta.apple.com/sp/betaprogram/

I'll be honest I'm interested to see what Linux makes of the card with an EFI firmware on it. I don't know if nvidia's linux drivers will support it or not.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:51 am 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
One note, OWC does offer a drive sled for the Mac Pros so a 2.5" SATA SSD will line up without issues. Otherwise you have to get a 2.5" to 3.5" adapter that will fit into the Mac Pro's existing drive sled AND is oriented so that it lines up with the motherboard's ports. Someone or other used to make such a thing but the only thing I've seen recently is OWC's replacement sled.

BTW, if it wasn't clear, the public beta program is something you can optionally sign up for. Now that I think about it anyone with an Apple ID can request to be in it, but I think they give preferential access to developers. At one point you had to be a developer to sign up but I think that went away a while ago.

https://beta.apple.com/sp/betaprogram/

I'll be honest I'm interested to see what Linux makes of the card with an EFI firmware on it. I don't know if nvidia's linux drivers will support it or not.


@MB:

Thanks for the details on that tray, it seemed like a couple months ago it was listed with the SSDs, then recently it seemed like it wasn't mentioned . . . on the OWC site . . .

And, thanks for the link to the Developer . . . a number of years back I think I got the "Developer Tools" package for some "operation" that had to be done to get OSX 10.3 running right, possibly following instructions from some guy on the Apple Discussion forum . . . name started with a "B" . . . something, something . . . since then I haven't been part of that team . . . . Once I get the SSD thingie situated I might try to step it up . . . .

OK, right . . . linux . . . funny . . . trying to thread through all of the guidances to get a card that should work with the range of distros . . . . There was the YT video where the guy was saying, "It will take awhile before the system will boot into OSX . . . ." but, have to say that the bootloader screen loaded right up . . . showing the usual suspects . . . got to it last night so I wasn't ready to try for linux . . . but, they are installed as "EFI" friendly . . . nouveau should get me a basic display, and then we'll see if synaptic or "Additional Drivers" will show me the Nvidia options . . . .

I'll post back when I get there . . . .

PS: Have to comment that the MacVid site is like a server site, you pay your money and the card of your choice comes out fast . . . but, email doesn't elicit much in the way of response . . . if any, and the "contact" data is via webform . . . perhaps not actually necessary, but kind of casts a question mark on the level of "service" that would be provided if things got wanky . . . it's the "little" things when it comes to transactions. Even Amazon servers "want to know how you felt about your product that you bought from them . . ." AI has "feelings" . . . or is "learning" about them.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:03 am 
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The YT guy must have been talking about a stock card, which can stay black until right before the login screen process loads in OS X. With an EFI firmware on the card you'll at least get a dumb framebuffer at startup.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:29 pm 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
The YT guy must have been talking about a stock card, which can stay black until right before the login screen process loads in OS X. With an EFI firmware on the card you'll at least get a dumb framebuffer at startup.


Could be, it was a super-zoot Nvidia 1000xx card with three fans . . . and it did stay black for a bit, he was saying the system had to load the drivers for the card . . . . I think the 780 series is "known" by the OSs these days . . . in comparison to the YT video mine bounced right up with the bootloader window--can't remember if there was a momentary flash of black screen, then display . . . .


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:59 pm 
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The 780 is supported by the drivers Apple includes with the OS, but even with driver support you're not going to get anything at startup without an EFI firmware on the card. If his card stayed black until the login screen appeared, he had a PC firmware on the card. This is what you're going to see most of the time on the internet.

Once upon a time it was possible to flash a mac firmware onto a pc card and turn it into a mac card just by using a flashing tool in DOS or another preboot environment, but that required a larger flash chip on the card and they saved themselves $.50 by going with a flash chip big enough to fit the pc firmware but not the mac firmware. It was even possible back then to flash both mac & pc firmwares onto the card, making it work natively in both environments, but again, that required a flash chip on the card large enough to hold the image. These days I'm not sure what size flash chips are needed on what cards and what the procedures are. Its possible he's sourcing particular models that have larger flash chips or removing and installing new flash chips.

As far as replies from that site, I'm pretty sure he's active on some forum someplace and responds to queries there after a fashion. I dunno. I have stock cards. The most I've seen of his site before you started asking about video cards was his page that keeps track of which webdrivers are available, because nvidia does a craptacularly horrible job of listing them on their site. I can find links to their drivers, and link to the page listing that particular driver for download, but actually finding either while starting from http://www.nvidia.com? Still haven't found it.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:13 pm 
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Well, like I said, the card was sent quickly . . . once I paid my money . . . . I think I sent an email before hand asking about "local pick-up" as it is in "LA" . . . no reply to that one, so the next morning I paid . . . and a day or so later the card had arrived . . . fastly. Several emails yesterday with the same questions I posted here . . . no answer(s) . . . . So, point being he doesn't seem to do "hand holding" or responding to whining . . . .

But, as far as Nvidia links go . . . not so sure on his links . . . the links I used to get the drivers for my various OSX iterations was through the XLR8 blog . . . which was great . . . .


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:53 pm 
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http://www.macvidcards.com/drivers.html


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:28 pm 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
http://www.macvidcards.com/drivers.html


Right. I did find that, the 10.13 one was very easy, which I did use his link to get . . . but I think in 10.12 & 13 neither one of them was showing the build number, which did show up in my 10.9 partition . . . so I used his list for 10.9 Nvidia driver & 10.13. It was the CUDA driver thing that he isn't covering too well . . . as far as the specific driver for specific version of OSX.

Anyway, it's running 10.13.6 very well . . . I'll get to the linux options either tomorrow or the next few days . . .


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:34 pm 
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Nvidia isn't covering CUDA well. I have yet to get it installed and working on 10.12.6 with any 2018-00X update installed.

That list is really confusing but there is some rhyme and reason to it if you stare at it long enough. The number is your kernel version, which gets changed every time you install a major update (e.g. combo update, security update, etc.).

As for CUDA, the only thing I'm aware of that uses it on OS X are some parts of Creative Cloud. Which was why I was trying to get it working but pffft I gave up. The one teeny tiny part that calls down to CUDA runs well enough in software mode. And it doesn't completely barf when I have to flip back to the OEM card when nvidia hasn't released a driver for the latest update.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:06 pm 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
Nvidia isn't covering CUDA well. I have yet to get it installed and working on 10.12.6 with any 2018-00X update installed.


I think I googled "CUDA drivers for OSX 10.12.6" . . . and then looked down the results until I saw the XLR8 blog link . . . in the blog was the link that I used for CUDA . . .

MonkeyBoy wrote:
As for CUDA, the only thing I'm aware of that uses it on OS X are some parts of Creative Cloud. Which was why I was trying to get it working but pffft I gave up. The one teeny tiny part that calls down to CUDA runs well enough in software mode. And it doesn't completely barf when I have to flip back to the OEM card when nvidia hasn't released a driver for the latest update.


Ah, well . . . I know nooootthhinnnggg . . . but I thought that dnetc had some CUDA option that you guys were using to kick out a bunch of items?? I tried to install the CUDA flavor, but the new MP with the Radeon card didn't seem to work??? Is that not "CUDA" that I am thinking of that the dnetc app is using??


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:16 pm 
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There is a CUDA client but I found I get more dnetc keys if I run it through OpenCL. Why doesn't Adobe use OpenCL? Only Adobe can say. OpenCL supports all cards, CUDA is nvidia only. If I remember right I think your Radeon was so old it didn't support OpenCL but maybe I'm thinking of an older system. Stream was AMD's version of CUDA.

Of course now Apple's announced plans to sunlight OpenCL with only their proprietary Metal API as a successor so I imagine dnetc is going back to CPU-only, at least under OS X.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:26 pm 
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Quote:
Apple further explains that not all Macs that can boot MacOS X 10.6 "Snow Leopard" can use OpenCL, and the technology is limited to systems with the following graphics cards:

NVIDIA GeForce 9400M, GeForce 9600M GT, GeForce 8600M GT, GeForce GT 120, GeForce GT 130, GeForce GTX 285, GeForce 8800 GT, GeForce 8800 GS, Quadro FX 4800, Quadro FX5600
ATI Radeon HD 4670, ATI Radeon HD 4850, Radeon HD 4870
For your convenience, a precise list of Macs that have video cards/subsystems that support OpenCL is provided below. This list is of Macs available at the time Mac OS X 10.6 (Snow Leopard) was introduced. Subsequently introduced Macs all support OpenCL.

https://everymac.com/mac-answers/snow-l ... pencl.html


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:39 pm 
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O . . . OpenCL . . . that would have to have been it since I knew I had a Radeon card back then . . . but perhaps I saw "CUDA" in the list when I was last there . . . . Well, can't really afford to kick out a whole bunch of crunchers . . . just the basic stuff . . . posting questions on forums, that kind of thing . . . . :coffee: :coffee: :coffee:


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:19 pm 
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BDAqua wrote:
Quote:
Apple further explains that not all Macs that can boot MacOS X 10.6 "Snow Leopard" can use OpenCL, and the technology is limited to systems with the following graphics cards:

NVIDIA GeForce 9400M, GeForce 9600M GT, GeForce 8600M GT, GeForce GT 120, GeForce GT 130, GeForce GTX 285, GeForce 8800 GT, GeForce 8800 GS, Quadro FX 4800, Quadro FX5600
ATI Radeon HD 4670, ATI Radeon HD 4850, Radeon HD 4870
For your convenience, a precise list of Macs that have video cards/subsystems that support OpenCL is provided below. This list is of Macs available at the time Mac OS X 10.6 (Snow Leopard) was introduced. Subsequently introduced Macs all support OpenCL.

https://everymac.com/mac-answers/snow-l ... pencl.html


@BDAq:

Well, none of those cards is my GTX 780 . . . but I'm not running 10.6 too much these days, it's installed on my 09 MBPro still, as the original OS for that computer . . . I'm mostly using 10.9 on that laptop . . . don't look to heat that unit up more than I have to . . . . In the MP with the new Nvidia card I'm usually in linux, but when I feel like going "old school" I have 10.12 or 10.13 to choose from . . . . I'll have to check out OpenCL for it at some point, after I get the linux systems running the right drivers . . . **specific** to the card . . . so I can run linux at will; then I'll check out the OpenCL/CUDA options for 10.12 or 10.13 . . . .

eep


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:40 pm 
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Quote:
Subsequently introduced Macs all support OpenCL.

10.6 was introduced in 2011, GTX 780 was introduced in 2013.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:26 am 
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OpenCL simply requires a GPU that supports the function. It works on all CPUs that are 64-bit.

As for the nVidia drivers:

https://gfe.nvidia.com/mac-update is the seed url for control panel. nvidia also has a not so hidden beta seed url https://gfestage.nvidia.com/mac-update

Both URLs will list the drivers needed for the last two years worth of driver updates. Just look for your OS version build (e.g. ##X###) and match it with the driver listed as belonging to that build on the first URL. The beta URL is mainly for those that know what they're doing with regard to OS version number hacking into the .kext itself.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:36 am 
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BDAqua wrote:
Quote:
Subsequently introduced Macs all support OpenCL.

10.6 was introduced in 2011, GTX 780 was introduced in 2013.


@BDAq:

Ah, sorry, was at work last night so attention span was split . . . . But, still, I'm pretty sure that my '12 MP did not respond to the opportunities provided by OpenCL . . . had to go with their regular dnetc app . . . .

@MB:

So, this morning is linux check of U-MATE . . . and all went well, booted up to a nice display using "nouveau" . . . which was perfectly fine, but, being a "power-hitter" I launched "Additional Drivers" and that gave me three options, Nvidia 390, Nvidia 340, and Nouveau, where it was . . . I picked 390 and it took a few minutes to download . . . on reboot, the display looks more or less the same . . . no hiccups, no burps . . . . I don't really do anything "3D" so it might not make a difference. Only thing noticeable was on launching FF the card motor/fans spun up for a minute . . . probably pulling electrical power on my meter . . . .

I saw a post on ubuntuanswers?? where various guys were posting how to upgrade the nvidia card via console, which the caveat was you had to run "nividia --config" (something like that) after running the usual "apt install nvidia-current-upates" because nvidia "didn't think to do that in their software" . . . that was from a couple years back, figured it was safer to just use the Additional Drivers app to run the install . . . seems to be OK in Ubuntu-MATE . . . 3 other distros to check . . . leaving OpenSUSE TW/Gecko for last.

@ST: Thanks for the post . . . .


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:55 am 
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Nvidia has an entire proprietary replacement driver stack for their cards, it completely guts the open source parts of Linux and replaces them with proprietary software written by Nvidia. At one point it offered a large speed boost but I'm not sure that's still the case, and like OS X the drivers had to be updated constantly. It was an open question whether Nvidia was really going to continue to provide that level of development forever or suddenly shut off the taps one day. I haven't looked into it in ages because I stopped buying Nvidia cards once they stopped providing competitive cards for $200.

That is probably what's they're talking about. You're using an open source driver, the nvidia driver has to be installed from Terminal.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:59 am 
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Squishy Tia wrote:
OpenCL simply requires a GPU that supports the function. It works on all CPUs that are 64-bit.

As for the nVidia drivers:

https://gfe.nvidia.com/mac-update is the seed url for control panel. nvidia also has a not so hidden beta seed url https://gfestage.nvidia.com/mac-update

Both URLs will list the drivers needed for the last two years worth of driver updates. Just look for your OS version build (e.g. ##X###) and match it with the driver listed as belonging to that build on the first URL. The beta URL is mainly for those that know what they're doing with regard to OS version number hacking into the .kext itself.
Is there a similar URL for the CUDA driver versions?


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