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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:45 am 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
Nvidia has an entire proprietary replacement driver stack for their cards, it completely guts the open source parts of Linux and replaces them with proprietary software written by Nvidia. At one point it offered a large speed boost but I'm not sure that's still the case, and like OS X the drivers had to be updated constantly. It was an open question whether Nvidia was really going to continue to provide that level of development forever or suddenly shut off the taps one day. I haven't looked into it in ages because I stopped buying Nvidia cards once they stopped providing competitive cards for $200.

That is probably what's they're talking about. You're using an open source driver, the nvidia driver has to be installed from Terminal.


@MB: Well, "yes" and "no" . . . the open source driver is "nouveau" . . . and that is I believe "automatic" or in the modules, as when I booted U-MATE for the first time this morning, the display was working just fine . . . . These days Ubuntu offers the "Additional Driver" app, and that finds and installs the "proprietary drivers" . . . in this case it shows three options, two Nvidia and the Nouveau option, as well as the choice for a Broadcom wifi driver . . . . I think that the app does "re-write" . . . something perhaps like "modprobe"?? to pick the Nvidia driver, but I also think I could switch back to nouveau using the same app . . . .

In the old PPC linux days the open source drivers installed weren't too great, but PPC devs weren't writing nouveau to work for us . . . had to do a bunch of "dark" commands to get "nv" installed . . . in point of fact for my needs nouveau would probably be just fine . . . . I also would have been OK with a cheaper Radeon card, but I moved too slow on it and there were only Nvidia cards available on the MacVid site . . . . It is what it is, it is "faster" than what I had, on paper, and seat of the pants also . . . but, not radically blindingly faster . . . was 1 GB +- before now "3GB +-" . . . .

I'll be checking the other linux systems tomorrow possibly and might just leave the OpenSUSE flavors with their version of nouveau . . . . I do have Nvidia card in my older MBPro running LM 18.3 and using the proprietary driver option . . . haven't seen it to be a problem, I think at one point the system asked me if I wanted to move up to a newer driver, but nothing since . . . display is fine . . . .

eep


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:58 pm 
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Mmmm I think you misread what I wrote. Nvidia HAS a driver that completely replaces parts of the XWindows stack. Unless you went here:
https://www.nvidia.com/object/unix.html

And downloaded/installed the driver, you're using an open source driver and not Nvidia's driver. Which is made doubly clear by the Nouveau Wiki entry:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nouveau_(software)
Quote:
nouveau (/nuːˈvoʊ/) is a free and open-source graphics device driver for Nvidia video cards and the Tegra family of SoCs written by independent software engineers


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:45 pm 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
Mmmm I think you misread what I wrote. Nvidia HAS a driver that completely replaces parts of the XWindows stack. Unless you went here:
https://www.nvidia.com/object/unix.html

And downloaded/installed the driver, you're using an open source driver and not Nvidia's driver. Which is made doubly clear by the Nouveau Wiki entry:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nouveau_(software)
Quote:
nouveau (/nuːˈvoʊ/) is a free and open-source graphics device driver for Nvidia video cards and the Tegra family of SoCs written by independent software engineers


@MB:

Well, we might getting into "fine nuance" about what is "open source" vs what is "proprietary" . . . but, this am in the Additional Drivers app it showed 1) "Nvidia 390--proprietary, untested;" 2) "Nvidia 340--proprietary, tested;" 3) "Xorg Xserver nouveau--opensource drivers" . . . or, words to that effect, I'm away from that computer and booted up in OSX so I can't show a screen shot . . . but those were the three choices offered.

So, in fact I don't know if what they are saying is "proprietary" is actually not really, and is the Ubuntu version that they are just labeling it as "proprietary," but it says it is offering the choices of "Nvidia" vs "nouveau" . . . .

I did look at the links you showed, and it does list "390.77" . . . I know that you can directly download the whatever, file as a ".deb" or ".rpm" from a web site and then use an installer app to install those specific files . . . OR, if you know the right console terms you can run them and they will retrieve the "Nvidia" files . . . are those "open source"? or "proprietary" ? perhaps they are; but to my knowledge "nouveau" is the open source offering that runs Nvidia cards, and in the comparison this morning they seem "very similar" . . . .

Pretty sure that in using the Software Updater/Additional Drivers method it would be "reversible" by checking "nouveau" . . . it would be on restart back to running nouveau . . . . Perhaps this is something like in Synaptic where Synaptic only shows the packages that are compatible with the operating system that you are running . . . and that might not be the "newest" driver, the newest driver would be perhaps available on the Nvidia web site . . . but, then, there might be operating problems with it if it isn't showing up in Synaptic as "compatible" . . . .

Other than now running the two versions of OpenSUSE that are "rolling" . . . I'm generally not pushing the envelope on trying to get the most cutting edge drivers or kernels . . . .


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:31 pm 
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To my knowledge Ubuntu doesn't have those nvidia drivers available but maybe something has changed. For the longest time they only allowed open source drivers in the distro then they opened it up with optionally allowing you to install select proprietary drivers, so maybe they did push forward. The installation for the nvidia drivers is really involved and lengthy which is why I'd be surprised if they pushed it down.

Nouveau is certainly an open source nvidia driver which likely won't support the absolute newest nvidia cards but will eventually get to them... on the other hand the nouveau driver probably supports a wider range of nvidia hardware, as you can see from that download page you have to choose from a half dozen different versions on nvidia's page depending on which card you have, whereas nouveau supports all the cards it supports and it looks like it supports a huge number of cards.

I ended up buying an FM2+ CPU for an FM2 system (the sockets are backwards compatible but the CPUs aren't, which is the opposite of AM2/AM3), so I decided to go ahead and build a complete PC to serve as a baby NAS. Ended up only being around $125 or so for motherboard, case, and PSU, only to realize I didn't have a heatsink/fan so I plunked down another $50 on that (complete overkill but I got annoyed trying to find an FM2+ HSF). I'm planning on putting Linux on it which is how this dovetails back to this discussion. The case really made me pull the trigger:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00PDDMN6S/

I really wanted the MiniITX version but MiniITX FM2+ boards were $150-200 and yeah I'm not that interested.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:07 pm 
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@MB:

Wow, amazing how "inexpensive" it can be to DIY a machine from "parts" . . . caveat being of course "knowledge" . . . . But, yep, linux has jumped up quite a bit in the last few years . . . much more "user friendly" of a system than it was perhaps 10 years ago when I got into it for the PPC "support" . . . .

Ubuntu/Lubuntu/U-MATE I believe all now have the "Additional Drivers" feature . . . which perhaps got it's start in Linux Mint . . . . Not quite as up to snuff on the OpenSUSE side of things, have seen posts saying "SUSE has a newer stack . . ." . . . meaning ??? it's "stacked more newly"??? They use "Yast" instead of "Synaptic" for adding software . . . I'll see tomorrow whether they also have "Additional Drivers" feature, which does eliminate the problems that used to go along with adding drivers for "proprietary" stuff . . . .

eep


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:43 pm 
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To be fair I have RAM for it and I have drive(s) for it so its kind of cheating to say it only cost $175. Assuming I can make this work it'll probably idle my G5, which mainly serves as a file server at the moment (and costs about the same as my big PC in electric bills). I'll have to transition more of my data over to the Mini and use it for things like email but meh, it's had a long life. I will have to figure out how to run old Handbrake on the Mini... new Handbrake has decided to cooperate with the MPAA. (thumbs nose at new Handbrake)

My exposure to Linux for the past few years has mainly been server OSes like Ubuntu Server, which are CLI-only. And Busybox- and BSD-based routers, still mostly CLI with some web-based configuration. So it'll be neat to see an actual full fledged Linux GUI for the first time in 10+ years.

The downside is that AMD systems are a lot harder to Hackintosh which is why I'm not going down that path. But the CPU really is about the best FM2+ CPU available, short of the overclockable models which have a minimum of 50% more power draw. Seemed a shame to just put it in a drawer.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:32 am 
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Latest update: I'm over in my current favorite squeeze, Gecko MATE rolling . . . no problems booting up, other than the fact that multi-booting has messed with some swap UUID numbers, affecting GRUB . . . takes a little long for the system to work through the . . . dmesg??? stuff and get to the splash . . . .

But, display is fine using the default "nouveau" driver . . . I just searched YaST for the term "nvidia" and only a few items for "nouveau" and even my old favorite "nv" showed up . . . . Doesn't seem to be an "Additional Drivers" app in OpenSUSE?? Haven't spent enough time in it to have it all wired . . . . Gecko is a "veneer" over OpenSUSE, like Ubuntu is to Debian, or Linux Mint is to Ubuntu, but it has flash installed so you can watch videos from the get-go, etc . . . . The hardcore OpenSUSE folk don't seem to dig Gecko too much, but, hey, this is linux . . . "open" for play . . . .

Since the "rolling" distros are updating every few days I probably won't try for the "proprietary" drivers in Gecko or in Tumbleweed GNOME edition . . . the nouveau driver seems to be perfectly fine . . . I'll let the updates decide what packages they feel like having.

Should be "good to go" on the new card . . . next stop SSD . . . or trying to get a faster internet connection to prep for the massive OSX upgrade file . . . 1.5 MB/sec is just not quite fast enough these days . . . yes, better than dial-up . . . but . . . .


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:25 pm 
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I finally got confirmation of when I can expect my power supply... 2 weeks. (sigh) So much shiny new hardware and no way to use it. Case was a little bigger than I expected but still small and nifty.

Well its good that the drivers are all working. I'd expect them to work since the device numbers on the PCIe bus didn't change but I remember back in the bad old days of Mac/PC cards that sometimes you'd cross-flash a card and suddenly drivers on the Windows/Linux side would stop recognizing it. But that was in the BIOS not UEFI days. Good that we're finally moving forward, even if that movement looks like a shambling zombie.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:36 pm 
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Right. Well, the "zombie apocalypse" unit is the PowerMac Sawtooth . . . possibly down for the count . . . .

I ran "zypper" to ref & dup the Gecko system and I saw "mesa-xx" on a few packages, so the system recognizes a change and is trying to gather newer packages for it . . . .

So far so good . . . on the what "re-flashed" card, that once was a lowly PC card, now a high flying Apple/Metal friendly card . . . .

[Edit: next day, update]: Booted up the straight up OpenSUSE "Tumbleweed" partition today, and this one was the most "flustered" by the change in hardware . . . as when "we" got to the "splash" window there were 3 columns of question marks over the usual three dots that show the "progress" of the system loading . . . it just froze on one of the dots, and then tried to "figure it out" with the ?????? in columns . . . and that took maybe 60 seconds to then break through and show a TTY line to "start the system" . . . and it did get to the TW desktop . . . not unusual to take a while getting to the desktop in the multi-boot set up, but the question marks were kind of amusing . . . .

Before I had changed the video card there were some problems in TW where launching FF was causing the GUI to "hang" . . . whereas Chromium as "OK" . . . in the morning with the new video card I launched both Chromium and then FF and the system didn't "freeze" . . . but the mouse cursor was what I call "crashy" . . . where the smooth movement of the mouse was "jerky" . . . previously that was the "indication" that the system was going to "hang" . . . perhaps the new faster card was able to keep FF running . . . ?? Anyway, OpenSUSE has "packagekit" . . . and that is some app that searches for system updates, and then downloads them . . . but packagekit blocks the Terminal from running "zypper" updates via console, and it also blocks Yast . . . until such time that all of the updates are found . . . and then downloaded . . . so it can interfere with a slow dsl connection for other browsing . . . . Today it found "748 packages" for 550 MB worth of downloading space . . . which took awhile for packagekit to "release" the console . . . the only good thing about it is that the downloaded packages were "cached" . . . so pressing play in the console just showed the 748 lines as "in cache" . . . and then it started installing . . . . And the various "mesa" packages were there, as well as a kernel upgrade to 4-18xx, and an updated FF, and on reboot . . . mouse back to smooth operation . . . things are "OK" . . . running "nouveau" driver, Yast doesn't really show "nvidia" and doesn't seem to have an "Additional Drivers" app . . . which is OK; in Rolling by next week we'll have another 748 packages to update into. Might get around to posting a question on the TW forum about "proprietary" drivers in OpenSUSE . . . or . . . wait n see.

Still would have OSX 10.9 partition and 10.12 partition to try for booting . . . shouldn't be any different than 10.13 . . . not a priority . . . .

end edit]


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