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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:43 pm 
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I am seeing a lot of upgraded 2010 Powermac towers on eBay lately, but for just a few hundred less I could build a Hackintosh that will run macOS High Sierra and beyond (for now). Obviously the strengths of a true Apple Powermac is that it will run and never (mostly) have issues, run up to 12 cores at 3.46GHz, and not require hacks/bodges to keep running reliably, whereas a Hackintosh will periodically require maintenance or inevitably be subject to the “random PC hardware failure syndrome” (I have experienced this a handful of times).

With the aforementioned PC hardware failure issue, I don’t honestly believe I can put my trust into data integrity for important stuff; I need a RELIABLE setup to get my work done and keep my data from errors/corruption/failure. Having recently worked a short-term contract wherein I was provided a 2013 Mac Pro “trash can” with dual FirePro D700 GPUs and six cores at 3.5GHz (was doing heavy Photoshop and Animate stuff), my insatiable lust for performance should be apparent. My current machine is a trustly MacPro 3,1 early 2008 eight-core 3.2GHz yet macOS 10.11.x is the latest OS it can run, so I feel the need to upgrade soon.

Thoughts? Tips? Suggestions? Recommendations? Self-help groups to join?

Thanks

-he who stacks pork

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:42 pm 
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We know 2010 and 2012 models are going to be supported by 10.14, however they will require a modern video card and not the one it comes with. So if you get a 2010/2012 be sure to include that in the budget. With tulpenmanie still in full swing on Bitcoin, GPUs are 150% to 200% where they were a couple years ago.

Depending on how brave you feel, 2009 to 2012 are the same motherboard, the difference is firmware and CPUs. If you flash a 2009 to a 2012 and install CPUs that are supported by the 2012, you'll have a 2012. I don't know if 2009 Mac Pro + 2012 CPUs < 2012 Mac Pro but it's something to consider.

My final note on the Mac Pro front is that the power supplies in the Mac Pros are still 6-9 years old and Mac owners being Mac owners, are routinely subjected to situations that no otherwise competent owner would put them through - plugging them straight into the wall, never blowing any dust out of them ever, kicking them over, yanking cables before unscrewing them, etc. This takes a toll on any system, magic Apple fairy dust be damned. A number of my systems were unplugged (from the wall, of course) and left sitting for 4-5 years by incompetent doofuses who felt they were too slow (which was due to trying to run After Effects, Final Cut Pro, and Premiere Pro on 3GB of RAM and a 5770, oh and of course never ever inspecting them for viruses and letting students run as administrators with zero restrictions on installing software - to say P2P clients and pirated software was rampant is an understatement) and even they've had 2 power supplies fail once they were refreshed and put back into service.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:11 am 
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I attempted to use the Dictionary.app to find out what the word “tulpenmanie” meant but it did not know; I’m apparently not involved with that “coal mining” stuff so I assume I ought not be concerned.

In terms of GPUs, I bought a “low-mileage” Sapphire R9 290X 4GB card off of eBay a couple of days ago for $140 + plus shipping, all I need to do now is see if it works with one of the “slated-to-be-Hackintosh-ized” PCs laying around here; card was put through the ringer for two full days of RC5 crunching under Windoze 7 without any incidents (fans set to 100% of course). It is my understanding that this card ought to work with 10.13.x… we’ll see.

-he who stacks pork

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:04 pm 
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Meanwhile, have been farting around with one of the slated-to-be-Hackintoshes most of the day today. In the middle of attempting to install High Sierra over an install of el Capitan. I am following the procedure outlined at tonymacx86.com, I hope it works; I hate wasting all day doing something that is pointless from the start. :roll: :snail: :bonk: :nothappy:

-he who stacks pork

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:50 pm 
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tulpenmanie is Dutch for tulip mania, which refers to the period when the price of tulip bulbs went up and up and up into insane territory and then, over the course of a few days, suddenly, completely, collapsed. Its the first (fairly well) documented case of a speculative bubble.

My general understanding of hackintoshes is that the less work you have to do to make them work the better off you are. This usually means buying specific hardware that is known to work. For example my main PC (a Haswell Z97 system) would be night and day easier to get running than my spare PC (Phenom II X6 790FX).


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:01 pm 
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Yep stupid waste of time bullshit wasted another fucking day all for nothing. Stupid Hackintosh bullshit sucks ass.

-he who stacks pork

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:35 pm 
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I am convinced the run-up in Mac Pro prices and resulting surge of listings is because the last of the Xserves in the wild are being replaced at this very moment as the end of security patches for El Capitan looms. My employer is in precisely that boat and we're replacing the Xserve with a Mac Pro with the sincerest hope the 2019 Mac Pro will be a solid alternative. Ask me about the bidding wars... or not. I had a chance to buy a nicely equipped eight-core Mac Pro (flashed 4,1) a few years ago for $700.

I'm also building-up a Mac Pro for myself to replace my 2011 iMac (which has intermittent screen problems and is soon to be orphaned by 10.14) and to re-use my 32" monitor that was surplussed when I bought a 27" iMac. The French hacker who patched NVMe boot support into the Mac Pro firmware is also an exciting development.


Last edited by 601 on Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:36 pm 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
Depending on how brave you feel, 2009 to 2012 are the same motherboard, the difference is firmware and CPUs. If you flash a 2009 to a 2012 and install CPUs that are supported by the 2012, you'll have a 2012. I don't know if 2009 Mac Pro + 2012 CPUs < 2012 Mac Pro but it's something to consider.


This upgrade is idiot proof as long as you don't need CPUs without a heat spreader.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:34 am 
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Leopold Porkstacker wrote:
Yep stupid waste of time bullshit wasted another fucking day all for nothing. Stupid Hackintosh bullshit sucks ass.

-he who stacks pork


1) What are the system specs?

2) What method were you using to attempt the install (Clover or Chameleon?)?

I have a fully bootable Sierra USB Installer that could put 10.12 on many systems. All I'd have to do is run with the DSDT = null boot arg from the Clover shell as the DSDT I have is tailored to my system and would likely crash the living shit out of your system otherwise. Sunnyvale isn't exactly the longest distance for me to drive as long as I can avoid the 880 > 101 interchange.

Best hardware for hackintosh:

Gigabyte Mobo <- With Clover can simply hotpatch clean DSDT or run w/o one as long as proper kexts are installed and BIOS is set up correctly.
≥800W PSU (headroom for GPU + system fans)
nVidia GPU (the best you can get - boot screen "support" not needed because this is a hackie which has no Apple boot screen)
Haswell/Devil's Canyon or later CPU (VT-d disabled on all CPUs >Haswell; CPU will depend on mobo, naturally)

Note: Anything older than Z87 is just not recommended for hackintoshing these days. Way too much hassle. And native NVRAM support is added with latest AptioMemoryFix in Clover.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:32 pm 
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To top things off, I have come to the conclusion that PC power supplies (no matter how awesome they are marketed) are only designed to last two years; I have had two fail (two years old) in the past three months… the most recent casualty was Sunday evening. I was watching a movie and fell asleep, when I woke up at 3:00AM the computer was powered off. I did the natural thing and hit the power button, it flashed briefly, made a tiny sound, then powered off again. I repeated this a few times; I was afterall half asleep. In the morning I tried again, and the same thing happened. This happened to me three months ago with another PC/Hackintosh. This shit is getting old. I think I just need to save up and BUY A REAL APPLE POWERMAC and pay the extra duckets for an extended AppleCare warranty. I have not got the time to spend a 1/2 day babysitting a Hackintosh Mac OS install procedure, and daily making sure each “surviving” PC/Hackintosh still boots up. If I was rich and did not need to work then I could see where I could spend every day of my life fiddlefarting around with this crap, but it’s maddening, as the failures and subsequent babysitting episodes seem to ALWAYS LIKE CLOCKWORK occur after sundown when I am cranky like a crotchety old fukka after a full day of work at my normal job. I am only “made” of so much money to keep feeding toward this bullcrap. I have estimated that I have spent over $3,000.00 on Hackintosh garbage bullshit crap-ass components and instead could have just saved up for a proper Mac Pro that will run the latest OS (not 10.14, I mean 10.13) without these problems.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:36 pm 
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I'd lay a ten spot that your PSU didn't die because it was bad, it likely died due to either a brownout from everyone hitting their AC yesterday and/or the power briefly going out and back on in rapid succession, which can fry almost any gear. I can virtually guarantee that a well built PSU such as EVGA's higher end lineup or Seasonic won't blow up on you like that, at least not without a lot of help from dirty power. Hell, I have a Thermaltake Tough Grand 1200W PSU that's still going strong five years later.

I'd seriously invest in a good line conditioner if I were you.

Also, I'm still around to actually help with the hackintoshing in person. :P

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:33 pm 
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Squishy Tia wrote:
I'd lay a ten spot that your PSU didn't die because it was bad, it likely died due to either a brownout from everyone hitting their AC yesterday and/or the power briefly going out and back on in rapid succession, which can fry almost any gear. I can virtually guarantee that a well built PSU such as EVGA's higher end lineup or Seasonic won't blow up on you like that, at least not without a lot of help from dirty power. Hell, I have a Thermaltake Tough Grand 1200W PSU that's still going strong five years later.

I'd seriously invest in a good line conditioner if I were you.

Also, I'm still around to actually help with the hackintoshing in person. :P


I may have to consult your expertise. Like a complete dumbass I just plopped down $1,100.00 on parts to build up a current Hackintosh system. No idea why I felt compelled to spend so much money but hey man, those NewEgg email deals are enticing. Details to follow when the parts arrive. I am sincerely hoping to get a RELIABLE working dual-boot (Windoze 8 & macOS 10.13.x) system up and running with full sound/networking/wireless/etc. crap operational. I have only had success with TWO Hackintosh builds over the past two years (one I built for my son, which amazingly is still working; of course it only sees the life of day in macOS mode – and the other which had a powersupply die the other evening). I’d like to think I can actually get one running reliably for three or more years without an untimely SSD death or a random powersupply crapfailure.

-he who stacks pork

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:05 pm 
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Typical 50/50 chance of facepalm with this Hackintosh bullshit. Today, the parts arrived. “No problem”, so I thought, seeing as I purchased the components from recommended parts on the tonymacx86 website. I created the 10.13.x USB installer several days ago. Today I CAREFULLY (PC components are fragile as shit, ya know, and they will fail if you cart too loud 500 miles away) built up the proposed Hackintosh, comprised of these components:

• Gigglebutt Z370P D3 RT
• MSI RX 580 8GB Radeon
• Corsair CX750M V2 750W powersupply
• Intel Core i7 8700 3.2GHz 12M CPU
• Corsair 2*8GB CMK16GX4M2B3000C15 (16GB RAM)
• LG Blu-Ray drive WH14NS40

As far as my failing brain can see, I followed the step-by-step USB stick OS installation procedure and BIO settings correctly as per this URL:

https://www.tonymacx86.com/threads/unib ... -pc.235474

Yet, every time (I have wasted two goddamn hours now waiting around twirling my balls – like a Windows 10 update status with the balls twirling in circles endlessly) the computer seems to hang there with about a 9% width macOS X installer status bar under the Apple logo. Yes, it will sit there until I hit the goddamn reset button and attempt to boot it again. This is such a goddamn waste of time.

(a while later, and shit out of luck, going on a whim and a “prayer”; LOL, I’m the opposite of religious!)

Well well well finally got the stupid 10.13.x USB installer to boot to the installer while holding down the shift key. :roll: Who’d have guessed??? Time to let it go and do it’s thing now (obviously after setting up the HD via Disk Futility).

LOL. Fun times. I have no life. :fishsmack: :whip: :lol: :shock: :oops: :roll: :upset: :p_dog:

-he who stacks pork

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:00 pm 
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Yep, nothing fucking works yet. Just a lot of “cannot boot from blah blah suck my ass”

Another waste of my life. Fucking bullshit. Why do I keep getting caught in this retardo-ass-fuck Hackintosh bullshit??? I’ve only been “successful” with two Hackintoshes out of eight system builds (or, attempted builds). Now I have a system that won’t boot anything, or recognize any media to install onto. What an epic waste of one’s time. Fuck me.

AKLJSKJLS

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:10 pm 
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Since I rebuilt my PC at home I can't manage to make Windows take updated drivers without either freezing solid OR breaking all video output after the POST and "windows is starting" logo appears. I kind of said screw it and left the old working drivers in place until I feel like fighting it again. Last time I tackled it the damn thing refused to let me enter UEFI to choose an alternate boot device because of &*(@#$&*(# fast boot was enabled, which basically means resume from hibernation or something similar which disables the ability to enter UEFI. Its now not so fast, which means it takes all of 5 seconds longer to boot. I'm pretty sure it takes longer to display the login prompt but the time when Windows is actually usable after login is shorter.

Weird, wild stuff.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:16 pm 
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Yaaay hooray! I’ve now got three HDs that are completely hosed thanks to this assmastershitwhore experiment. Two 3TB and 1TB drive, totally unusable. Won’t even spin up. This is an exciting waste of money!!! Does it make me feel like a man? No, just a retard wasting $1,100.00 that I thought might be a sound investment.

Meanwhile, I somehow managed to get a slow-ass-molasses 5400RPM 1TB drive from a MacMini installed with 10.13.x… yet I am still holding my breath to see if it actually installed.

This whole project has been an EPIC FAILURE though, because I cannot get this particular install to have both macOS and Windoze 8.x installed onto a partitioned HD (attempting this killed the three HDs I’d attempted to install dual-boot OS onto). I seriously hope by some miracle I can maybe hook up another spare HD into it and install Windoze 8.x onto it, yet still be able to choose to boot from it via bootup (EFI/Clover/BIOS/etc./whatever).

-he who has no life

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:43 pm 
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*whistles innocently*

Also, you should never use the same drive for Mac and Windows. The reason it won't work on a hackintosh? You munge the Windows UEFI bootloader when you do so. You need separate disks. The ones you "broke" either died of old age or something else (check those capacitors on the mobo, because it sounds like something got wired backwards). The worst an install will do is munge the MBR/GPT partition tables and you have to repartition and start over again. Software cannot break a drive the way yours went out. You'd literally have to be having hundreds of load/unload cycles per minute for that to ever possibly happen.

Also, this one deserves special mention:

Quote:
Set XHCI Handoff to Enabled


There are typically three settings for this: Disabled, Enabaled/Auto, Smart Auto. You obviously don't want Disabled. But you also don't want smart anything. You want plain Jane Enabled/Auto.

Also verify that these are in the /EFI/CLOVER/kexts/Other/ folder:

FakeSMC.kext (mandatory)
FakePCIID.kext (potentially optional, possibly needed) (Location: https://bitbucket.org/RehabMan/os-x-fak ... downloads/
FakePCIID_XHCIMux.kext (potentially optional, possibly needed) (Location: Same as FakePCIID.kext download)

Failure to have at least FakeSMC.kext in the Others folder (which will always load regardless of OS version), will render the system unbootable/unusable. Clover must be installed on the USB drive's EFI partition, and then copied over to the EFI partition of your OS X boot drive. Because Clover resides there, that requires your Windows installation to be on another drive entirely so the Windows bootloader works properly. With Clover handling OS X, you can hit F12 at the Gigabyte boot logo screen and select the Windows bootloader option that is attached to the drive your Windows install resides on. Do not use Clover to boot into Windows! Also, if you haven't already, disable fast boot. You need that boot logo screen to come up to allow the machine to properly POST prior to it reading the clover install.

I'm still not sure why you went with a Radeon instead of an nVidia GPU though. While select AMD GPUs have native Apple driver support, it's hardly optimized and if you intend to do OS X gaming at all, nVidia's support is far better.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:44 am 
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I managed to build two Hackintoshes with dual booting OS on one partitioned HD (Windoze 8.x and macOS 10.11.x) and they work just fine (well except for the one that had the recent power supply failure). The Hackintosh I built for my sons (Windoze 8.x + macOS 10.11.x on one partitioned HD) still works great two years later.

Meanwhile, yesterday was very frustrating and patience-testing. Somehow after 10:20PM I was able to confirm that 10.13.x is installed and running on the expensive new $1,100.00 Hackintosh. However, from 8:34PM until 10:20PM it was unclear what exactly the computer was doing. The way this install procedure goes for 10.13.x leaves me wondering what the heck is going on; it reminds me of Windoze 10 updates that sit there for hours on end seemingly doing nothing. :roll: I manually rebooted the computer a couple times since it seemed like it had hung somewhere along the way. At 9:22PM after I rebooted it, I was presented (many minutes later) with a screen that read, “Welcome to Clover 4458 .... scan entries ....”, but it eventually booted up.

My conclusion is this: PLEASE DO NOT ATTEMPT TO BUILD A WORKING HACKINTOSH UNLESS YOU HAVE PATIENCE. I used to be a patient person, but my success rate of Hackintosh builds has worn me down.

-he who stacks pork

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:48 pm 
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Leopold Porkstacker wrote:
I managed to build two Hackintoshes with dual booting OS on one partitioned HD (Windoze 8.x and macOS 10.11.x) and they work just fine (well except for the one that had the recent power supply failure). The Hackintosh I built for my sons (Windoze 8.x + macOS 10.11.x on one partitioned HD) still works great two years later.

Meanwhile, yesterday was very frustrating and patience-testing. Somehow after 10:20PM I was able to confirm that 10.13.x is installed and running on the expensive new $1,100.00 Hackintosh. However, from 8:34PM until 10:20PM it was unclear what exactly the computer was doing. The way this install procedure goes for 10.13.x leaves me wondering what the heck is going on; it reminds me of Windoze 10 updates that sit there for hours on end seemingly doing nothing. :roll: I manually rebooted the computer a couple times since it seemed like it had hung somewhere along the way. At 9:22PM after I rebooted it, I was presented (many minutes later) with a screen that read, “Welcome to Clover 4458 .... scan entries ....”, but it eventually booted up.

My conclusion is this: PLEASE DO NOT ATTEMPT TO BUILD A WORKING HACKINTOSH UNLESS YOU HAVE PATIENCE. I used to be a patient person, but my success rate of Hackintosh builds has worn me down.

-he who stacks pork


Was the new hackintosh using 10.13 being installed to an SSD by chance? If so, APFS, while awesome for a few features, can slow down the process, especially if the drive is already formatted as HFS+ as it needs to convert. This is why I'll be using the option to force a non-convert update from 10.12 to 10.13 using the direct update method. APFS has too many problems to use as my primary filesystem yet.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:49 pm 
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I suspect your older Hackintoshes weren't based on UEFI motherboards running in UEFI mode. BIOS or CSM provides some things that UEFI will not, but the reverse also holds true.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:41 pm 
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Squishy Tia wrote:
Was the new hackintosh using 10.13 being installed to an SSD by chance? If so, APFS, while awesome for a few features, can slow down the process, especially if the drive is already formatted as HFS+ as it needs to convert. This is why I'll be using the option to force a non-convert update from 10.12 to 10.13 using the direct update method. APFS has too many problems to use as my primary filesystem yet.
Leopold Porkstacker wrote:
Meanwhile, I somehow managed to get a slow-ass-molasses 5400RPM 1TB drive from a MacMini installed with 10.13.x



There ya go.

-he who stacks pork

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:48 pm 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
I suspect your older Hackintoshes weren't based on UEFI motherboards running in UEFI mode. BIOS or CSM provides some things that UEFI will not, but the reverse also holds true.


They both were Gigabyte Z97-based motherboards. On this subject of dual-booting, what would be the recommended OS installation procedure for ensuring a reliable dual-boot Hackintosh build on a modern-day motherboard? Install Windoze first? Install macOS 10.13.x first? More importantly, how to set up Clover/Multibeast/whatever to load up the loader on power-on and automatically start with the macOS volume rather than the PC one? Obviously performing a “search” on the tonymacx86 forums yields hundreds of results, and perhaps after 2 hours of sorting through the posts I think I might find one or two of them useful.

Meanwhile, high praise for reliability goes out to Corsair’s HX series (the HX750 in this instance). Purchased in fall 2014, it has outlasted a Rosewill 1000W and an XFX 1000W which were purchased in late 2015 and early 2016; “conveniently” they both died shortly after the NewEgg warranty expired. I just purchased another Corsair 750W supply (the CX750M V2) today to put into the other Hackintosh to hopefully find out that it was in fact the powersupply that died.

-he who stacks pork

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:59 pm 
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Rosewill components generally last as long as the warranty and not much longer. The only things I trust to last longer are things that I only pull out occasionally - USB to SATA bridge, MicroSD reader, etc.

They suckered me in with some ATX 1.2 PSUs bought back in the early ATX12V days because I had some old PCs that needed the -3V line or whatever it was that got cut from the later ATX12V spec. I think they probably still work, I just haven't turned one on in about 7 years.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:09 pm 
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Leopold Porkstacker wrote:
MonkeyBoy wrote:
I suspect your older Hackintoshes weren't based on UEFI motherboards running in UEFI mode. BIOS or CSM provides some things that UEFI will not, but the reverse also holds true.


They both were Gigabyte Z97-based motherboards. On this subject of dual-booting, what would be the recommended OS installation procedure for ensuring a reliable dual-boot Hackintosh build on a modern-day motherboard? Install Windoze first? Install macOS 10.13.x first? More importantly, how to set up Clover/Multibeast/whatever to load up the loader on power-on and automatically start with the macOS volume rather than the PC one? Obviously performing a “search” on the tonymacx86 forums yields hundreds of results, and perhaps after 2 hours of sorting through the posts I think I might find one or two of them useful.

Meanwhile, high praise for reliability goes out to Corsair’s HX series (the HX750 in this instance). Purchased in fall 2014, it has outlasted a Rosewill 1000W and an XFX 1000W which were purchased in late 2015 and early 2016; “conveniently” they both died shortly after the NewEgg warranty expired. I just purchased another Corsair 750W supply (the CX750M V2) today to put into the other Hackintosh to hopefully find out that it was in fact the powersupply that died.

-he who stacks pork


For Windows, it must be on the first partition of the drive if using the same drive as OS X. MacOS doesn't care which partition it's on. The reason it is suggested not to use the same drive in a hackintosh is to avoid any potential interference by Clover. It shouldn't happen, but it can. Also, not having both on the same drive means you can troubleshoot a fuckton easier. Generally when Windows is hosed the partition table often bites the dust too and then there goes your Mac OS drive. You could theoretically install 10.13 first, then use the BootCamp assistant to prep the same drive for a dual boot scenario. It should work as the system is treated just like a "real" Mac. Obviously though you'll not want to install Bootcamp drivers on the Windows side because, well, it isn't a real Mac. It's just best to avoid the trouble and put each OS on their own drive. Doing otherwise is just asking for problems down the road.

To have Clover load first, you need to go into the UEFI BIOS and set the boot order. The very first internal non-removable media drive must be the one containing the EFI partition that Clover resides on. This will cause Clover to load first as the EFI partition is read in UEFI boot mode. Legacy boot mode must be disabled to ensure both Clover and the Windows Boot Manager can load properly. Secure Boot must be disabled for OS X to boot at all. As long as Clover is set to "Last Boot" mode within Clover Configurator and the config.plist saved, it will remember your last booted partition, which should always be your OS X partition as you aren't going to use Clover to boot Windows. Ever.

To boot Windows, press F12 at the Gigabyte logo screen (fast boot must be turned off for OS X to boot properly anyway!) and select Windows Boot Manager. That will boot your Windows partition normally as it would in any other non-hackintosh PC. This also ensures that Clover only ever sees you booting into the OS X partition and thus avoids "confusion" with Last Boot mode.

Also, if you have not, disable VT-d. Leaving it on helps with VMs in Windows (and OS X), but causes kernel panics. Its use is so niche in OS X that it is not needed for anything outside of VMs and those can run even without it, just slower with regard to I/O.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:56 pm 
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Thanks Squishy for the info… good to see I had been doing it all in the same order. Meanwhile, I guess I need to simply get a working dedicated 10.13.x booting volume working flawlessly (ding! check!), and then remove that HD and install a freshie and install Windoze 8.1.x onto it, and then install both HDs and then sort out the boot order in BIOS. Should be a piece of cake (with extra vegan-friendly frosting) after that, yes?

As for VenerialT-d, I don’t see any entries in BIOS for that… is there some other place I ought to be looking for it?

Thanks. And good to know that there are still a few patient people in the world left.

-he who stacks pork

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