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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:05 pm 
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Last night Mr H's MBP shut down on its own when it was just sitting there and hadn't been used for a while.
It felt warm, when he noticed it - probably soon after it occurred.

He couldn't get it to boot up - nothing happened, so he took out the battery.
The battery did not feel hot but the MBP continued to felt quite warm.

He reinstalled the battery and it started up when he pressed the power button.

Today, when he went to turn it on, the progress hung up at about 60%.
He turned it off with the power button and waited a minute.
Tried again, it booted OK, but staring at the progress bar we noticed it became a white rectangle the size of the bar for a flash of a second.

I remembered what you - MonkeyBoy - said here:
https://x704.net/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=8180
MonkeyBoy wrote:
...

Then try opening up Console in Utilities and see if it's repeating errors about disk0s0 or disk0s2 or something along those lines. Depending on what it says it could be a clear indication the disk is on its way out (though it could also be severely corrupt). You should be able to type disk in the search field in the upper right and it should only show you entries that contain the word "disk" although it may take a little bit to show. I would wait on this until your files are backed up.

What it sounds like is that its having some issue with the HD. Starting up off bootable installation media, then loading Disk Utility, then trying to verify Macintosh HD would be a good step. You can't repair the HD if you're booted off it, though you can verify it, although if the HD is suspect you're best doing it from different media. Note that Disk Utility looks very different in 10.11, most everything is there its just been moved around or turned into a button.


so we did the console thing.
We got nothing for disk0s0, but this for disk0s2 - what to do next???
I will drag and drop recent files but am taking your advice and not doing an HD backup in case everything fails in the midst.

Should I boot from my USB of El Cap and follow your above direction next?

Thanks in advance!
Attachment:
File comment: disk0s2 in console
disk0s2.jpg
disk0s2.jpg [ 46.41 KiB | Viewed 1112 times ]

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:18 pm 
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And I did what WZZZ said there
WZZZ wrote:
In addition to what MB suggests, the following may make it somewhat easier to determine if the drive is failing:

enter "I/O" (no quotes) in the Console search (filter) field. If it reports anything I/O, for example, "kernel[0]: disk0s2: I/O error," it's usually a fairly clear sign that the drive is on the way out. If nothing come up at all, see screenshot, that's a good sign the drive is probably still OK....


and got this:
Attachment:
IO.jpg [25.52 KiB]
Not downloaded yet


That I/O Throttling happened at 11:11:41PM yesterday night, which - I think - is just about when he shut the thing off for the night.
Nothing about I/O in today's report.

Are we in trouble here?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:23 pm 
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No that's not an I/O error. Disregard that. Could have been a thermal shutdown, if it got too hot. Open up Console and enter "shutdown cause" But first thing to try is an SMC Reset

http://osxdaily.com/2010/03/24/when-and ... oller-smc/


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:41 pm 
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WZZZ wrote:
No that's not an I/O error. Disregard that. Could have been a thermal shutdown, if it got too hot. Open up Console and enter "shutdown cause" But first thing to try is an SMC Reset

http://osxdaily.com/2010/03/24/when-and ... oller-smc/


shutdown cause:
Attachment:
File comment: shutdown cause
shutdown cause.jpg
shutdown cause.jpg [ 43.71 KiB | Viewed 1105 times ]


How can I find out what those numbers mean? I bet you know!!

Oops I checked this in Console before doing the SMC reset - but Mr H is not available and I want him around whilst I do that.

Is the disk0s2 something to worry about?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:56 pm 
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I found this on shutdown cause numbers:

"Code 0 - Power disconnected.
Check power supply/battery on a laptop, or the power supply for a Mac without a battery. On a laptop, the Mac should hibernate before the battery becomes so discharged it is unable to shutdown correctly, therefore if you see this shutdown cause on a laptop it may indicate a hardware issue with the battery or with the battery controller for reading the charge. Try resetting the SMC by connecting the switched off computer to power, holding ⌃control+⌥option+⇧shift and pressing power."

https://georgegarside.com/blog/macos/shutdown-causes/

If it's correct - no power?
10:48PM last night Jan 7 shows "previous shutdown cause 0" - the magsafe power plug was still connected - and the battery shows 100%

So SMC reset it is - BUT - and I remember seeing this discussion before, I've seen 2 different sequences (at least) for how to do a SMC reset on a MBP with removable battery. Your link seems to be the steps I remember for this type MBP:

Shutdown the MacBook/Pro and remove the battery
Disconnect the power adapter, hold the Power Key for 10 seconds
Release the power key and reconnect your battery and power adapter
Turn your Mac on
Let boot as usual

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Last edited by Mrs H on Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:02 pm 
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Quote:
WZZZ Jun 19, 2011 7:29 PM in response to mdcollins Level 6 Level 6 (13,190 points) expertise.macosxMac OS X
Jun 19, 2011 7:29 PM in response to mdcollins
5 is a shutdown from the menu.
https://georgegarside.com/blog/macos/shutdown-causes/


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:04 pm 
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Thanks BDA - I found that and was typing the reply above yours while you were posting the same link. ;)

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:09 pm 
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This seems to give a few steps to try before resetting the SMC:
Do I recall that resetting the SMC is a last resort thing, not to be done to often (or is that resetting the PRAM?)?

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201295
Before you reset the SMC:
If you're using a Mac notebook that's having power or battery issues, follow these steps:

Unplug the power adapter from your Mac and the electrical outlet for several seconds, then plug it back in.
Choose Apple menu > Shut Down.
After your Mac shuts down, remove and re-insert the battery if it's removable.
Press the power button again to turn on your Mac.

If the issue still isn't resolved, you might need to reset the SMC using the steps below.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:40 pm 
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The SMC manages, among other things: the audio subsystem, the fans, CPU power management (C-states), and very importantly, battery power management and monitoring. If the SMC is in need of a reset, which it sounds like it is, it can cause batteries to drain entirely without hibernation because the SMC isn't catching the low capacity/voltage signal from the battery's electronics. Resetting the SMC isn't one of those "last resorts". It's actually something you should generally do each time you perform a major update to the OS to ensure things are running smoothly with the new update and code. There are no ill effects from resetting the SMC.

Zapping PRAM on the other hand, is a last resort, mainly because it uses NVRAM, which is flash based and has limited write endurance (much more limited than any SSD cell would). But restting the SMC? You could do it until the cows come home and all it does is essentially reset the processor that manages system hardware resources. It would be like performing a CPU reset on a home theater receiver. They are after all computers, just with different operating systems.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:50 pm 
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Yeah, the SMC is just the computer that runs the computer. When the SMC isn't working right the entire system won't work right.

Apple doesn't want people resetting the SMC because there is a momentary pause after the reset where the system won't work right, and since people have become impatient overreactionists that momentary pause will make some people do crazy things because zomg my computer is broken I'm freaking out. I work with some of those people.

If you're calm and patient and give it a couple seconds after the reset everything will work just fine.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:12 am 
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Squishy Tia wrote:
...But restting the SMC? You could do it until the cows come home and all it does is essentially reset the processor that manages system hardware resources. It would be like performing a CPU reset on a home theater receiver. They are after all computers, just with different operating systems.

Thanks Squishy T for the clear description and image. Much appreciated!

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:13 am 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
Yeah, the SMC is just the computer that runs the computer. When the SMC isn't working right the entire system won't work right.

Apple doesn't want people resetting the SMC because there is a momentary pause after the reset where the system won't work right, and since people have become impatient overreactionists that momentary pause will make some people do crazy things because zomg my computer is broken I'm freaking out. I work with some of those people.

If you're calm and patient and give it a couple seconds after the reset everything will work just fine.


Thank you MB for the reply.
I'm one of those over reactors I suspect. So your warning is advice well given and I shall just sit tight and wait. Mr H might be tempted to try to hit escape, but I won't let him - I promise.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:17 am 
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These are the steps - yes?
I've seen it in a different way elsewhere - or with different timing - 5 sec not 10.

Shutdown the MacBook/Pro and remove the battery
Disconnect the power adapter, hold the Power Key for 10 seconds
Release the power key and reconnect your battery and power adapter
Turn your Mac on
Let boot as usual


Is it in this last step - waiting for it to reboot that MB's freak out scenario occurs?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:44 pm 
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No, after you reconnect the battery there's a momentary pause where the SMC is basically booting. Just give it a few seconds and it'll turn on normally. It's not a long pause but I'm dealing with 20 year olds 5 days a week who expect everything to be instantaneous so I tend to put these caveats out there now.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:12 pm 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
No, after you reconnect the battery there's a momentary pause where the SMC is basically booting. Just give it a few seconds and it'll turn on normally. It's not a long pause but I'm dealing with 20 year olds 5 days a week who expect everything to be instantaneous so I tend to put these caveats out there now.


Heh. They obviously don't realize that the SMC has to go through its own POST before it...POSTS! :D

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:28 pm 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
No, after you reconnect the battery there's a momentary pause where the SMC is basically booting. Just give it a few seconds and it'll turn on normally. It's not a long pause but I'm dealing with 20 year olds 5 days a week who expect everything to be instantaneous so I tend to put these caveats out there now.

It just plain old turned on normalling - no pause after reinserting the battery, reconnecting power and turning it on.

Seems fine, so far so good - knock wood!

Thanks all.

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