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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:42 am 
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As Gonzales would say...

Andale -Holy frijoles! That thing runs faster than me!

Hopefully it arrives before the wall goes up.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:36 pm 
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Exactly . . . . Possibly they have some stockpiled in a warehouse this side of the border??? Any follow up on my G4 thread? I added an edit there on the o + f attempt . . . . :bonk:


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:12 pm 
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Got a link to the edit? I can't find it & it doesn't show under Show New Posts.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 2:21 pm 
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http://x704.net/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7775&p=105249#p105249

That should get you therer. It's not exactly a "new" post, I just edited the last post from whenever that was . . . couple days ago . . . .


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:49 pm 
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Replied there.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:13 pm 
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Memory controllers will try to interleave memory in different slots to increase performance. So instead of writing to one DIMM with the bandwidth of one DIMM it writes to two DIMMs with double the bandwidth. I've never seen a Mac that would interleave four slots but maybe your G5 does that. Back when we were using SIMMs instead of DIMMs there were systems that would interleave four slots together, but SIMMs are 32-bit and DIMMs are 64-bit so four DIMMs would mean reading/writing 256-bits at a time.

Another possibility is that you were putting the RAM in two slots that were interleaving across different model DIMMs. That's a big no-no and would certainly result in a memory failure. Without knowing the exact G5 I can't say for sure, but usually the DIMM slots are interleaved one slot apart, so assuming there were four DIMM slots 1 and 3 would be interleaved, while 2 and 4 would be the other pair. Usually there's one, sometimes two, "emergency" modes where it'll work with 1 or 2 DIMMs in the first set of pairs (so assuming 1 & 3/2 & 4, it'll work with modules in 1, sometimes 1 & 2).

It could also be a timing thing, where it reads the RAM timing for one set of modules and applies them to all DIMM slots. That would be pretty unusual though, even for a G5 era system. I have a mixed and matched DIMM setup in my G5 so its certainly possible for DIMMs to cooperate.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:31 pm 
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@MB:

Thanks for th thoughts . . . this wasn't "G5" . . . it's the MacPro . . . . Well, apparently the new Mex RAM showed up today, so maybe tomorrow I'll be able to slap it in and we'll see if the 4 sticks of 4 GB RAM work together.

But, I thought slot 1 & 2 are "paired" . . . that is where I had my two 4 GB sticks installed . . . seemed OK . . . . But, I didn't try to put the Chinese RAM in 1 & 3, and the Mex RAM in 2 & 4 . . . is that what you are saying??? I kept them in 1/2 && 3/4 and switched them back and forth; I didn't "jump" over the other RAM, etc . . .

I now have the new Mex in 1&2 . . . seems to be "faster" . . . than the Chinese version???


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:26 am 
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OK . . . on the MPro front, got the second 8 GB of hecho de Mejiko RAM bolted up last night . . . slotted in 3 & 4 . . . and computer booted up w/o complaint . . . checked 10.12+ . . . nothing mentioned--rebooted into 10.9 and I got a little "Congratulations friend of Apple products, your RAM seems to be in the proper configuration" . . . alert window . . . . Apple used to be so "supportive" . . . what happened to those little niceties, making the user feel good about getting a RAM install done right???? :coffee:

I was anticipating raging speed, but, so far seems similar to the OG 8 GB I had . . . guess I'll have to launch a bunch of apps and see what happens . . . . Probably over on the linux partitions the OS will maximize its use of the RAM.

I'll be back over on the G4 thread in a couple few days, after I get a chance to pull the PM ST out of its slot and check the mobo situation.

e...


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:13 pm 
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Ah. It looks like its 1, 2, & 3 in a Pro. You can run 4 DIMMs with lower performance, but 3 is optimal for Nehalem and the next couple follow-on workstation systems.

I wonder if you were trying to mix RDIMMs and UDIMMs? That... doesn't work. Basically registered memory and unregistered memory, it's all one or the other, not both. That would explain why it refused to boot at all.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:03 am 
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@MB:

Well, all seems "fine" right now with the four slots filled . . . from looking at your linked page that just seems to indicate they want the #1 slot filled, and then the #2, etc--rather than having #1 & #4 for two sticks . . . . I didn't see anything there indicating to leave #4 slot empty for best power????

It's hard to know what is best advice . . . back when I first got this Mac Pro I got advice from a formerly well respected Apple guru who had helped me out over the years, like BDAq, and he said that RAM in apple units functions best in pairs, that there is some "synergistic" energy that comes from that pairing, so his advice was to do two, or four sticks to get that enhanced RAM power . . . . Theoretically I guess I could see how three sticks could potentially "vibe" with the two outers "pairing" with the middle stick . . . ??

But, anyway, perhaps the new RAM is still "burning in the electron pathways"??? and might be time to run dnetc for a tad bit?? before the 2x speed differential kicks in big time??? :snail:

e.e.p.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:30 am 
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Quote:
perhaps the new RAM is still "burning in the electron pathways"???

That was far more an issue in older days with less tech chips, back in the '70s you could actually sometimes repair bad RAM by sticking bits to cells until the cell "remembered" how to hold the bits, and programs existed to clone floppies to themselves byte by byte because they'd lose retention of bits!

I don't think I've seen but one possible case of "Electron Etching" in modern electronics.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:41 am 
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BDAqua wrote:
Quote:
perhaps the new RAM is still "burning in the electron pathways"???

That was far more an issue in older days with less tech chips, back in the '70s you could actually sometimes repair bad RAM by sticking bits to cells until the cell "remembered" how to hold the bits, and programs existed to clone floppies to themselves byte by byte because they'd lose retention of bits!

I don't think I've seen but one possible case of "Electron Etching" in modern electronics.


Obviously a failed attempt at computer humor . . . . :classic-eek: :emphatic-eek: :whip:


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:03 am 
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I figured as much, but seeing as there may be other people reading this... I went with the deadpan! :welcome:


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:21 am 
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BDAqua wrote:
I figured as much, but seeing as there may be other people reading this... I went with the deadpan! :welcome:


Deadpan is good . . . always a "safe" option . . . .


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:29 am 
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:D


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:37 am 
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este.el.paz wrote:
@MB:

Well, all seems "fine" right now with the four slots filled . . . from looking at your linked page that just seems to indicate they want the #1 slot filled, and then the #2, etc--rather than having #1 & #4 for two sticks . . . . I didn't see anything there indicating to leave #4 slot empty for best power????

It's hard to know what is best advice . . . back when I first got this Mac Pro I got advice from a formerly well respected Apple guru who had helped me out over the years, like BDAq, and he said that RAM in apple units functions best in pairs, that there is some "synergistic" energy that comes from that pairing, so his advice was to do two, or four sticks to get that enhanced RAM power . . . . Theoretically I guess I could see how three sticks could potentially "vibe" with the two outers "pairing" with the middle stick . . . ??

But, anyway, perhaps the new RAM is still "burning in the electron pathways"??? and might be time to run dnetc for a tad bit?? before the 2x speed differential kicks in big time??? :snail:

e.e.p.
The high end i7/Xeon workstation/server parts worked by interleaving memory across three slots. Mainstream parts, like what I have at home, uses two slots, but the high end parts used three for 50% more bandwidth. For a while there it was pretty common to find memory kits that bundled three modules together for this reason, though I'm not sure if that's still the case. While they had four slots per CPU slot, using the fourth slot incurred a penalty since it disabled three module interleaving.

I'm not sure if your Mac Pro is one of these units or not. Apple's systems kind of, well, stray quite a bit from the norms. They are using server/workstation parts because they support registered memory, and server/workstation parts had the three module pairing (I have a server at work with a big long-winded explanation inside the top cover that you should install memory in threes - it has two CPU sockets and 8 slots - and only to use four if you're willing to accept a hit). Similarly only installing modules in one of the CPU's set of slots is supported but comes with a penalty since the other CPU has to run across the hall to borrow a cup of memory.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:48 am 
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@MB:

Cool bones. I've got the low spec "Quad" unit . . . next time I'm inside I'll try to see if there are any notes, might be something . . . . Whenever I get to messing with the G4 PMac logic board . . . I can quickly pop the side panel on the MPro and see what it says.

e.e.p.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:17 pm 
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Quote:
Grant Bennet-Alder Apr 10, 2013 7:19 PM in response to mopahhh Level 9 Level 9 (64,592 points) expertise.desktopsDesktops
Apr 10, 2013 7:19 PM in response to mopahhh
Unlike older Mac Pros that required matched pairs, the 2009 and later models of Mac Pro 65lb tower have four slots on each side (each processor module), and they operate somewhat independently. The first three slots are independent, the fourth slot is shared with the third slot.

1) If you install one module on each side, it will run slower because it cannot interleave.
2) If you install two on each side, it will run about five percent slower than optimum. This does not make a measurable difference.
3) Three modules on each side runs at the fastest memory speed.
4) Four modules on each side runs five to ten percent slower, because slots three and four are shared. In some cases, it may run one step down from its fastest speed. The slowdown is memory speed is usually more than compensated by faster overall operation from having adequate memory.

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/49 ... 0&tstart=0

Quote:
That being said, in the real world – as with the 2009-2012 model Mac Pros which supported up to triple-channel addressing and even with the 2006-2008 models that REQUIRED matched pairs – more memory trumps multi-channel addressing where you have an application or applications running that make use of that memory.

https://blog.macsales.com/22745-mix-and ... -mac-pro-2

Quote:
Dual-processor computers have eight memory slots, four per processor. You can install 1 GB, 2 GB, or 4 GB DIMMs. Each processor’s memory controller has three memory channels. DIMM slots 1, 2, 5, and 6 have their own channels; slots 3 and 4 share a channel and slots 7 and 8 share a channel. For optimal memory bandwidth, all six memory channels should be used, and memory should be balanced across the six channels. Note: Populating slot 4 or 8 slightly drops maximum memory bandwidth, but depending on the applications used, overall system performance may benefit from the larger amount of memory.
If you have Fill in these slots
Two DIMMs 1 and 2
Three DIMMs 1, 2, and 3
Four DIMMs 1, 2, and 5, 6
Six DIMMs 1, 2, 3 and 5, 6, 7
Eight DIMMs 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5, 6, 7, 8

https://apple.stackexchange.com/questio ... m-slots-in

Not your model Mac Pro, but I found it interesting that OWC's RAM was cheaper AND faster!

https://www.tekrevue.com/2013-mac-pro-ram-upgrade/

Mac Pro 3,1s needed paired RAM...

http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/m ... emory.html


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:09 pm 
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I just have the single processor . . . so I just have 4 slots for RAM . . . :upset:

:coffee:

But, watching the video does give me the idea that "I need to add another harddrive" . . . since I have three or four trays to fill . . . ??? I was waiting to do SSD on my MBPro when that drive passed away . . . but, just thinking about "empty" trays in my MPro . . . that need to be filled . . . . I used to be a "tool-aholic" back in my construction days . . . now I could be a parts-aholic . . . . "Hello, OWC . . . it's me again . . . I'd like to order some HDs sent overnight . . . gotta have them ASAP . . . might as well do some more RAM . . . ."

e.e.p


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:19 pm 
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:lol:


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