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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:50 am 
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I have an issue and it's an odd one. I've got a 5,1 2010 Mac Pro that I run Mojave on with a mac flashed Radeon 9750. Other than it having whiny fans, it worked ok. I'd tried my Nvidia 1060 in it from my PC when I was on High Sierra and it ran like a missile, but did odd things with the fans (it would randomly spin then up and down again at odd intervals), so I backed it out. But I liked the performance so I thought, that's fine, I'll get a Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 580 8GB as it's bizarrely supported officially by Apple (it's what they fit in their eGPUs). Reports online say to just drop that bad boy in there and 'it just works'.

Well not in mine it doesn't. Works beautifully at desktop. Indeed it's silent as it spins the fans down at idle. Give it a light load and they spin up and back down again. Marvellous. Give them a heavy load and they spin up ...and stay spun up at max RPM. Rebooting gets it back where it was and it behaves again. It's a tad frustrating give just how bloody fast the thing is.

Any ideas here? I've read of other problems elsewhere that I don't have and solutions exist for (the system fans spinning up and not back down again). I've even seen someone reporting the same problem as me, but no solutions.


...and hi. It's been a while...

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:22 am 
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Hey, it has been awhile! :o

Are you speaking of the GPU's fans or the Mac\s fans?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:25 pm 
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Download and install the Sapphire trixx utility to tune the card's bios.

There is no mac version. You will need to boot windows to use it.

https://sapphirenation.net/download-new-sapphire-trixx-tool/

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:11 pm 
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juansolo wrote:
I have an issue and it's an odd one. I've got a 5,1 2010 Mac Pro that I run Mojave on with a mac flashed Radeon 9750. Other than it having whiny fans, it worked ok. I'd tried my Nvidia 1060 in it from my PC when I was on High Sierra and it ran like a missile, but did odd things with the fans (it would randomly spin then up and down again at odd intervals), so I backed it out. But I liked the performance so I thought, that's fine, I'll get a Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 580 8GB as it's bizarrely supported officially by Apple (it's what they fit in their eGPUs). Reports online say to just drop that bad boy in there and 'it just works'.

Well not in mine it doesn't. Works beautifully at desktop. Indeed it's silent as it spins the fans down at idle. Give it a light load and they spin up and back down again. Marvellous. Give them a heavy load and they spin up ...and stay spun up at max RPM. Rebooting gets it back where it was and it behaves again. It's a tad frustrating give just how bloody fast the thing is.

Any ideas here? I've read of other problems elsewhere that I don't have and solutions exist for (the system fans spinning up and not back down again). I've even seen someone reporting the same problem as me, but no solutions.


...and hi. It's been a while...


Yaaay you’re back!

If you are OK with light DIY tinkering, I’d recommend fitting the card with an aftermarket cooling setup such as the popular Arctic Accelero Extreme series. Triple fan setup, hardly any fan noise even at full RPMs. Only downside is that the fans themselves don’t last a long time when run under 24x7 100% loads, and the heatsink is quite bulky.

My experience with any ol brand of RX580 cards has proved flawless and 100% compatible with 10.13 (have not tried with 10.14 or newer) in both my real late 2012 5,1 Mac Pro and two different Hackintosh setups. Yes, you heard that right– any RX580 will work.

-he who stacks pork

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:02 am 
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If you want to help lower fan noise, you'll likely need to do something counterintuitive: increase the intake fan's RPMs to push cool air into the GPU at a higher rate of flow. This worked wonderfully with the MP1,1/2,1 because they had a large enough fan to do just that, but even the 4,1/5,1 fan should work for this. 1,1/2,1 @ 1100-1300 RPM was still whisper quiet and caused the GPU to never have to rev up its fans unless I was doing the equivalent of running Prime 95 for GPUs or something. The reason those GPU fans are kicking in and staying on is that air is stagnant at Apple's stock intake speeds. Bump that up and the GPU suddenly gets more cooler incoming air and has to rev the fans far less frequently, if at all if it's got a good cooler on it.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:22 am 
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Yep, it's the GPU fans, not the intake.

I considered pulling the fans from it, and running a pair of noctuas or something on it from somewhere else, but in the end just decided to go back to the 7950 that lives in there at the moment. It's fast enough for what I do on it most of the time. It was mainly because I scored the 580 quite cheap, though not quite cheap enough for me to start hacking around with it. I'll have a ponder whether to take it further. At the moment I'm thinking of just leaving it as is and maybe bodging some nicer fans onto the 7950...

Oh and Mojave isn't really worth the effort on one of these IMO (other than to do the firmware update that makes the PCI slots work properly*). Stick with HS. Especially if you get the Mail bug where it forgrounds itself randomly or goes splitscreen if you're running something fullscreen. My pro does it, my macbook doesn't. Grrr!

*Got an NVMe drive in there for the OS, it's super rapid compared to anything on the SATA 2 bus!

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:37 am 
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Quote:
(other than to do the firmware update that makes the PCI slots work properly*)


Where does that problem exhibit itself?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:37 pm 
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If you got the RX580 used it's possible whoever had it before you modified the BIOS to adjust the fan settings to aid in their intended application (e.g. bitcoin).

I've never seen an RX580 in person but my RX480 has a two position switch near the back of the card, near the slot bracket thing (sorry, long day) where you connect displays. This allows you to change between two different sets of BIOS chips on the card. By default one contains "turbo" settings and the other uses normal settings, and it's set to normal by default. Maybe check yours for a switch on the top and see if it can be flipped? Mine is mounted in-line with the PCB and sticks up from the card slightly when viewed on edge. Might have been discontinued, this is something AMD has done since the 69x0-ish days.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:20 pm 
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Dual BIOS graphics cards are commonplace now. This way an enthusiast can OC on one BIOS and have the original one as a fallback when the OC BIOS becomes unstable and has to be reflashed, which requires a stable BIOS from which to do so. nVidia cards have this capability too.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:24 am 
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BDAqua wrote:
Quote:
(other than to do the firmware update that makes the PCI slots work properly*)


Where does that problem exhibit itself?


It's the link speed (here is pre and post patch), also it allows NVMe booting on the PCIe bus.
Attachment:
MacUpgrade2.jpeg
MacUpgrade2.jpeg [ 20 KiB | Viewed 158 times ]

Attachment:
MacUpgrade5.jpeg
MacUpgrade5.jpeg [ 19.9 KiB | Viewed 158 times ]


NVMe goodness:
Attachment:
MacUpgrade4.jpeg
MacUpgrade4.jpeg [ 50.52 KiB | Viewed 158 times ]


Download the Mojave installer, but just do the first bit (the firmware update) then quit it and stay on High Sierra.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 7:13 am 
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Ah thanks much. :)


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:12 pm 
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juansolo wrote:
NVMe goodness:
Attachment:
MacUpgrade4.jpeg


Download the Mojave installer, but just do the first bit (the firmware update) then quit it and stay on High Sierra.


Hmm… tempting… :bonk: :whip: :p_dog:

-he who stacks pork

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:33 pm 
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The pci lane area is one of the warmest areas on the mac pro
and one with the least circulation. It could be just circulating
heat round and round.

Use smc fan control to increase the idle fan speed to exhaust the
heat faster from that area. I set the pci fan speed at idle at about
1355 rpm. also opening up empty card slots helps move air out.
I also increase the other fans speed as well. Sure, it's a little noisier
overall, But everything runs cooler, including hard dives and
other accessory cards.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:30 am 
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Leopold Porkstacker wrote:
juansolo wrote:
NVMe goodness:
Attachment:
MacUpgrade4.jpeg


Download the Mojave installer, but just do the first bit (the firmware update) then quit it and stay on High Sierra.


Hmm… tempting… :bonk: :whip: :p_dog:

-he who stacks pork


You do have to be careful which drive you choose as not all of them work. I remember googling threads out there regarding MVMe drives and mac comatibility and grabbing a Samsung P961 drive (Samsung PM961 Polaris 512GB M.2 NGFF PCIe Gen3 x4, NVME Solid State Drive SSD, OEM (2280) (MZVLW512HMJP-00000) to give it it's full name...) as it was cheap and seemed the safest bet. I got a KryoM.2 Evo adapter. Even pre-patch, High Sierra saw it and ran the drive at full speed sat in a 4x slot of my Mac Pro, which was a surprise. You can go silly with them and get double and quad NVMe adapters which can get properly silly fast. I'm too cheap for that, and the jump from 250ish MB/s to over 1GB/s was quite enough.

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Last edited by juansolo on Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:37 am 
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kjk555 wrote:
The pci lane area is one of the warmest areas on the mac pro
and one with the least circulation. It could be just circulating
heat round and round.

Use smc fan control to increase the idle fan speed to exhaust the
heat faster from that area. I set the pci fan speed at idle at about
1355 rpm. also opening up empty card slots helps move air out.
I also increase the other fans speed as well. Sure, it's a little noisier
overall, But everything runs cooler, including hard dives and
other accessory cards.


Found a command that seems to display the temp of the gpu and fan speed which is nice as iStat doesn't.

ioreg -l |grep \"PerformanceStatistics\" | cut -d '{' -f 2 | tr '|' ',' | tr -d '}' | tr ',' '\n'|grep 'Temp\|Fan'
"Fan Speed(%)"=25
"Fan Speed(RPM)"=1258
"Temperature(C)"=35

The good news is that the card (7950 now) temps are staying very sensible so I'm not feeling an urge to fix that. As I say though the fans on it are a tad annoying so I might swap out the fan shroud for a pair of 120mm Noctuas to make the noise more palatable, but that's something I'll do at my leisure.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 3:49 am 
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kjk555 wrote:
The pci lane area is one of the warmest areas on the mac pro
and one with the least circulation. It could be just circulating
heat round and round.

Use smc fan control to increase the idle fan speed to exhaust the
heat faster from that area. I set the pci fan speed at idle at about
1355 rpm. also opening up empty card slots helps move air out.
I also increase the other fans speed as well. Sure, it's a little noisier
overall, But everything runs cooler, including hard dives and
other accessory cards.


There is no exhaust for the PCIe area. The only two exhausts are the PSU's fan and the bottom CPU cage exhaust fan. What you need to do is increase the intake fan to circulate the air better. The more you intake, the more cooler air those GPU fans also take in and thus keep the heatsink cooler as a result. Increasing the front to between 1100 and 1300 RPM should be enough air for the GPUs while remaining near whisper quiet.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:32 am 
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My intake fan idles at 1380, exhaust at 1380. PS is 1350, pci is 1350.

It's not whisper quiet, but it's tolerable (for me anyway) and it does the job.

My GTX Nvidia card uses a little less energy than a 580, but not much less.

I don't do much gaming, but It does get a bit of a workout at times when
adding virtual machine loads to the mix.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 1:30 am 
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Idle temps/speeds:

System Ambient 25 C
CPU 40 C (only got the one)
Northbridge 60 C (hottest thing in there)
DIMMs 40 C
HDD 28/29 C
NVMe 29 C (has a massive heatsink on that)
GPU 36 C

GPU Fan Speed 1267 rpm
GPU Fan PWM 25%
Booster Fan 856 rpm
Exhaust Fan 600 rpm
Intake Fan 600 rpm
PSU Fan 600 rpm
Expansion Slots 800 rpm

Nothing horrific and it seems to stay fairly in check under load also. I’ve ordered a pair of 1700RPM Noctua 120mm fans for the GPU and I’m going to swap out the whole shroud on that and see what happens. They're much larger than the horrid things fitted in the shroud and people seem to have used these in the past with success. But I'll strap them on and leave Haven running for a few hours to see what happens to the temps.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:34 am 
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Well this was a fun little experiment...

Currently kicking the shit out of the machine with Haven running and it seems to have stabilized at the following:
"Fan Speed(%)"=64
"Fan Speed(RPM)"=1208
"Temperature(C)"=73

Which is rather nice as even at this speed they're probably only a fraction louder than the stock fans at idle and it's not a grateing tone like they were. Under normal load, you can't hear them unless the side is off.

Cable tie engineering at it's best...
Attachment:
GPU-Fans-1.jpg [328.83 KiB]
Not downloaded yet

Attachment:
GPU-Fans-2.jpg [200.92 KiB]
Not downloaded yet


Original fans:
Attachment:
GPU-Fans-3.jpg [149.2 KiB]
Not downloaded yet

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:54 am 
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What were the load temps before?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:07 am 
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Honestly I can't remember, but anything in the 70's with it's balls to the wall* is perfectly fine. I've been running it flat out for about 30 mins**, fans got up to around 1200rpm (60% PWM, 74c, stable at that) and it wasn't unpleasant. Took the load off the GPU and within 10secs it dropped 10c. A little over a minute they'd spun down to the point they were inaudiable.

It's idling a little warmer than it did, but again, low 40's are nothing to worry about and it's not giving me a headache. I suspect however once the new fans get going, they're shifting way more air than the old ones. I suppose if I could edit the fan profile I could raise their speed a little at idle, but I'm not concerned.

*An expression that comes from old steam engine regulators don'tchaknow. Balls out comes from the same place.
**Haven benchmark running whilst doing some Photoshop bits and bobs.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:56 pm 
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Which power connector did you connect the Noctua fans to?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:07 pm 
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Thanks Juansolo. :)


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 12:54 am 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
Which power connector did you connect the Noctua fans to?


The one on the card (they draw less current than the stock fans). I got a mini 4-Pin PWM Y cable to 2x regular 4-Pin connectors. Works fine. All completely reversable. Fans are Noctua NF-P12 redux-1700rpm PWM.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:25 pm 
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Nifty. eBay has so many hard to find parts now.


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