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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:18 am 
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Folks:

I've been having this problem for several months where traditionally I would let the MBPro sit in its bag logged out and clamshell closed from Thursday afternoon around 5 to Monday morning at 8am and there would be little loss of battery reserve life, but now it is losing 20% or more per day, such that come this morning there was "5%" battery left, and I have to use the power button to boot the computer--and it took 2.5 hours to charge to "100%" . . . .

A year ago the OEM battery was changed at a local computer shop because I believed the general advice was "changing battery in the MBPro is a factory job" . . . and the shop didn't take my advice about BTI batteries which I found to be "good" in my iBook . . . they went with a Lizone unit that when I checked Amazon listed for $55. They offered a year warranty which I realized only last month as relevant, so I took it back to them and after a "week" of testing they said, "The battery is fine, no cells are damaged so we can't return it under warranty; try to shut it down and see if that saves the battery . . . ???"

So I did that, and indeed if I shut it down for those days the battery shows only losing 20% rather than 95% . . . but, on this recent week I forgot to shut it down and . . . this am we had gone from 100% to 5% . . . . So I thought I might ask the crew if there is any experience or comment on the "why" of this . . . for instance, would this be indicative of the fact that the "Lizone" battery is "cheap" and just doesn't have the capacity to hold a charge? If I don't plug the computer in the battery life is not super great, but I mostly plug it in when working on it; but in terms of battery longevity I saw in some technical forum, possibly the apple discussions, that it isn't good to leave the laptop plugged in all the time and good to leave it in sleep to put a load on the battery, which improves the lifespan of the battery . . . ??? And, it's kind of a habit, rather than shutting down and rebooting . . . certainly if it was going to be a week or more I would shut it down, but, for a few days, no . . . .

But, the other question is one that I might have posted here a few months back, that the HD is the "original" and I think in the linux side the SMARTreporter app showed it as "aging" . . . so would that be something that would have any connection to draining the battery, if the computer is logged out of what is mostly the 10.9 partition, wifi off, clamshell closed?? And that might explain why this problem is happening in concurrent relationship to the new battery . . . which the shop says is "fine"???? Somehow the HD would be pulling power as it degrades???

Or, nope, it's the battery that is cheap junk . . . .

e.e.p.


Last edited by este.el.paz on Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:48 am 
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What happens if you turn off Airport/Wifi before closing lid?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:58 am 
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BDAqua wrote:
What happens if you turn off Airport/Wifi before closing lid?


Yep, I think I mentioned that the "wifi is off" . . . so that prolly isn't what might be draining the battery . . . logged out, wifi off, and clamshell closed is the standard procedure.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:27 pm 
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Geesh, how'd I miss that!? :oops:


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:13 pm 
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BDAqua wrote:
Geesh, how'd I miss that!? :oops:


Well it was buried in with my usual verbiage . . . but, it was mentioned in the what was passing for the "summary" area of my declaration of issues . . . . :bonk: :classic-eek:


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:54 pm 
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When the system is sleeping the HD isn't pulling power, no matter what SMART says.

If I'm not going to use a laptop for more than a couple hours I generally shut it down. Then again I have 7200rpm HDs and SSHDs and other funny things in laptops so they tend to start up a bit quicker than most.

If you're losing 20% every day when the system is shut down, I'd say you have a bad battery. Unfortunately bad batteries are everywhere now, I've given up trusting brand names since they're sourced from a wide variety of factories with a wide variety of quality.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:39 pm 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
When the system is sleeping the HD isn't pulling power, no matter what SMART says.

If I'm not going to use a laptop for more than a couple hours I generally shut it down. Then again I have 7200rpm HDs and SSHDs and other funny things in laptops so they tend to start up a bit quicker than most.

If you're losing 20% every day when the system is shut down, I'd say you have a bad battery. Unfortunately bad batteries are everywhere now, I've given up trusting brand names since they're sourced from a wide variety of factories with a wide variety of quality.


@MB:

Thanks for the post, I figured that the HD wouldn't be using power when logged out, but, then what would be draining it so quickly given no "use" of it?? And, it's not losing 20% every day when shut down; I think it was 20% for the four days, rather than the 20%+ each day when it isn't shut down . . . whereas with the OEM battery even when it was screaming for "service" for a year, the battery held the charge when I did the same, logged out, wifi off, clamshell closed maneuver . . . for quite awhile, etc.

Also, the boot time/process is a hair more "complicated" by the triple boot partitioning and the rEFInd window, which isn't "necessary" anymore, but it would help out for booting "single user" by GUI rather than having to hold the alt key select disk and then hold some keys down . . . . Just easier to leave it booted in the system, until now where the battery can't hold the charge.

Which, let's say it's "bad" or sub-par . . . why wouldn't the shop "man up" and use the warranty to R&R the battery? They claimed that it tested "OK" and no "bad cells" so they couldn't use the warranty replacement . . . . Anyway, shutting it down is easier on the battery life, but, not so "convenient" . . . and then there is the "why is this happening?" aspect, the "recent development" . . . .


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:50 pm 
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I'm no expert, but it sounds like a bad PMU/SMU, do those things have PRAM Batteries?

Seems it wouldn't be the Battery if it doesn't do it if it's OFF.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:59 pm 
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BDAqua wrote:
I'm no expert, but it sounds like a bad PMU/SMU, do those things have PRAM Batteries?

Seems it wouldn't be the Battery if it doesn't do it if it's OFF.


BD:

Thanks for that distinction on the battery . . . "bad PMU/SMU" ?? OK, I'll have to look into what that means, but I don't know if there is a PRAM battery; I have popped the hood to add RAM, but I wasn't checking all the details . . . . :badteeth:


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:31 pm 
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If you bought another battery of a different brand, and tested its drain when sleeping, you could draw some conclusions. At this stage you have no baseline. Maybe what you currently have is normal drain, or maybe not.

<spanner in the works> I remember with rechargeable NiCd batteries; charged up and unused they would quickly lose their charge, compared to putting them straight into the camera they would be useful for days. So battery health seems related to their place in a circuit, not just what may or may not be drawing on it. I cannot elaborate on this mystery for a lack of knowledge, but this weirdness has been observed elsewhere as well, at least in cameras.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:41 pm 
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SMC reset:
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201295

Basically shut down, plug the system in, press, simultaneously, control, option, shift, and power, then hold for a couple seconds. I know it says 10 but pfft they used to say to only do it momentarily. When you release the power light on the charger should either start flickering (if fully charged and possessed), transition from green to orange to green (if fully charged and not possessed), or transition from orange to green to orange (if not fully charged). The transition will take a couple seconds, it's fairly quick but if you're looking at the light you won't miss it. If the system powers on either you probably weren't holding onto all the keys on the left side or one of them didn't register as being held down. Shut down after it boots and try again.

PRAM reset is just command option P & R at power on.

Personally I keep swiping MBP batteries from the pile of dead MBPs that have been dropped off in my office. The battery is usually perfectly fine. Usually. Then again the systems I'm swiping it for are for other work MBPs... but back when someone was holding onto these for god knows why I was buying batteries periodically, and I have a few old PC laptops that need laptops every couple years because, well, they don't make batteries like they used to. Coworker bought a battery direct from Dell for the Dell laptop model she had. They drop shipped her the wrong model battery from a third party. When she called and complained they told her to just keep it and then dropped shipped her... the exact same wrong model battery. I got her one off Amazon. And an 802.11n WiFi card. Haven't heard her complain about that laptop since.


Last edited by MonkeyBoy on Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:15 am 
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Does

pmset -g log

confirm that it's been in sleep mode throughout most of the period when the battery drains ?.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:44 am 
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ab2 wrote:
Does
pmset -g log
confirm that it's been in sleep mode throughout most of the period when the battery drains ?.


Gents, you too roam . . . and ab2:

Thanks kindly for the details, I'll try some of this stuff out later today . . . ab2, pretty sure that it "sleeps" in "sleep" when it is in OSX. I did have a strange "wake from suspend" mode when I kept it in Linux Mint, logged out, wifi off when I was trying to do something in LM, where the laptop "woke itself up" and then "realized" it was trapped i a computer bag and had a major panic attack with fan blowing at full tilt, over-stimulating itself into a frothy mess. Fortunately I had the bag sitting on the floor near where I was sitting, but I had gone out on a bike ride and it might have been blowing for hours . . . that episode prompted my taking the laptop to the shop for "analysis" . . . but, they found nothing of note.

The LM forum "guru's" suggested that because I didn't increase the swap when I added RAM that there "wasn't enough swap to hold the system in suspend" . . . which seemed "plausible" if it wasn't for the "being logged out, wifi off, and clamshell closed" component. I tested it later by leaving it out on a desktop and the situation didn't repeat . . . . Since then and actually before that I usually don't leave it in LM . . . due to the general problem of the mac fan control in LM isn't super duper . . . even though I added "macfancontrol" and did some adjustments . . . but, I digress . . . . :snail:

Anyhoo, I'll try to reset these items, indeed I don't think I've messed with the PRAM on that computer lately . . . since I was considering that to be a probable "battery" problem, that ended my diagnostic investigations on the problem . . . dun deal.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:12 pm 
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@MB: So I did the SMC reset & the PRAM for 6 chimes . . . battery started today at something like "63%" overnight from lunchtime yesterday . . . so we'll see if any of that shifts in the next few days . . . ??

ab2 wrote:
Does
pmset -g log
confirm that it's been in sleep mode throughout most of the period when the battery drains ?.


@ab2:

So, in checking this log, it is fairly long, I'm just putting this section in, the computer was used on 10/30, then Nov 1 in the late afternoon, then Nov 2 from morning until afternoon, and then i was "asleep" until 11/6 in the morning. I think it shows how it was at 100% charge on the 2nd, and then 5% on the 6th . . . and I see something about "sleep failure code" on the 6th as well. There were some comments about
Code:
11/1/17, 9:04:09 PM PDT  SlowResponse           PMConnection: Response from com.apple.apsd is slow (powercaps:0x0)                      1992 ms
that I saw show up a few times, but seemingly perhaps the "sleep" is "happening"????

Code:
Sleep/Wakes since boot at 10/30/17, 7:47:03 AM PDT :7   Dark Wake Count in this sleep cycle:1

Time stamp                Domain                 Message                                                                       Duration     Delay     
==========                ======                 =======                                                                       ========     =====     
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
11/2/17, 4:30:13 PM PDT  Sleep                  Clamshell Sleep: Using AC (Charge:100%)                                                
11/2/17, 4:30:14 PM PDT                         Summary- [System: DeclUser kDisp] Using Batt                                           
11/2/17, 4:30:14 PM PDT  Assertions             PID 45(hidd) TimedOut UserIsActive "com.apple.iohideventsystem.queue.tickle" 00:13:36  id:0xa00000cdb [System: DeclUser kDisp]            
11/2/17, 4:30:14 PM PDT  Assertions             PID 45(hidd) Released UserIsActive "com.apple.iohideventsystem.queue.tickle" 00:13:36  id:0xa00000cdb [System: DeclUser kDisp]            
11/2/17, 4:30:14 PM PDT                         Summary- [System: No Assertions] Using Batt                                            
11/2/17, 4:30:15 PM PDT  SlowResponse           PMConnection: Response from com.apple.apsd is slow (powercaps:0x0)                      1994 ms      
11/2/17, 4:30:15 PM PDT  WakeRequests           Clients requested wake events: [proc=mDNSResponder request=Maintenance inDelta=7198]             
11/2/17, 4:30:15 PM PDT  WakeRequests           PM scheduled RTC wake event: MaintenanceImmediate inDelta=7198.01                      
Sleep/Wakes since boot at 10/30/17, 7:47:03 AM PDT :8   Dark Wake Count in this sleep cycle:0

Time stamp                Domain                 Message                                                                       Duration     Delay     
==========                ======                 =======                                                                       ========     =====     
UUID: (null)
11/6/17, 7:47:25 AM PST  Start                  powerd process is started                                                              
11/6/17, 7:47:25 AM PST                         Summary- [System: No Assertions] Using AC                                              
Sleep/Wakes since boot at 11/6/17, 7:47:25 AM PST  :0   Dark Wake Count in this sleep cycle:0

Time stamp                Domain                 Message                                                                       Duration     Delay     
==========                ======                 =======                                                                       ========     =====     
UUID: Unknown UUID
11/6/17, 7:47:26 AM PST  Sleep                   Sleep (Failure code:0x1F006500): Using AC (Charge:5%)                                 
11/6/17, 7:48:56 AM PST  Assertions             PID 209(apsd) Released ApplePushServiceTask "com.apple.apsd-recreatecachedictionaries-push.apple.com" 00:00:30  id:0xc00


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:54 pm 
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From my experience, in plain old sleep mode I'd expect to lose about 20% of battery per day...at least my 2010 MBP with 8GB RAM lost close to that much. It should lose very little power if it's hibernating, but that slows down the wake/sleep transition, although it's quite fast enough if you have a good SSD.

As an aside, I'm glad you had a good experience in the past with BTI batteries. When I worked in a computer store long ago I stopped selling them because, although they were usually a bit cheaper than alternatives, a very uncomfortably high percentage came back dead or died within a couple months. We had a lot that were dead out of the box. That was, however, a very long time ago.

On the topic of the battery, you could have a partially faulty battery. I think you'd probably also see a significant dip in battery life in normal use if that were the case.

Finally, if you added RAM recently that could be causing more battery drain, albeit not probably enough to account for the delta between a 5% and 20% nightly drop. In normal sleep mode the computer keeps RAM powered up. More RAM = more battery drain. When the computer hibernates it saves the RAM state to disk, then powers off the RAM so there's only a tiny draw on the battery.

The pmset -g command all by itself will show the currently configured hibernate mode:
  • 0 - Conventional sleep without writing RAM backup to disk.
  • 3 - Save contents of RAM to disk, but keep RAM powered up and wake from RAM unless the battery dies.
  • 25 - Save contents of RAM to disk and power down RAM, forcing the system to reload the RAM image from disk on wake. Uses least power.

- Anonymous


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:16 am 
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@anonymous:

Thanks for the comments . . . the timeline is somewhat "fuzzy" as far as how long has this been going on goes. The RAM addition was quite awhile back, before the "new" battery exchange by far . . . but obviously systems and parts degrade over time, so it could be cumulative effects . . . but my "gut-brain" connection thinks it most closely relates to what isn't a great battery. Of course it's difficult to know if a BTI would have been any better, but I have had good luck with them, they were recommended in MacWorld mag way back when Apple was offering free subscriptions to it . . . ??? Obviously the writers have to fill space with verbiage, but that seemed to work for me . . . .

As far as the "hibernate" v "sleep" . . . I'm mostly a GUI driver in OSX 10.9 and the drop down menu gives me "sleep" or shut down" as the options . . . over in LM I could do "hibernate" but that often results in no "un-hibernate" revival . . . so I do "suspend" except for in the laptop where I generally don't leave it in LM partition for longer than a few hours or less.

On my '12 MP I was having problems with getting the computer to stay in "sleep" so I did change those ??"pmset" numbers, but I haven't done that in the MBPro . . . might check it later today/tonight when I get to work with it . . . .

Thanks,

[edit: So, after doing the various re-sets it seemed like we went from 100% to 60% in a day and a half . . . which I guess is consistent with the 40% decrease in a day, precisely . . . so that matches anonymous's experience, but not with my previous battery life . . . so, it seems like the solution for this issue is to shut it down, which hopefully this afternoon I will remember to do for the long "weekend" that starts for me on Thurs afternoons . . . . Thanks for the comments.]


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:32 am 
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I noticed this in your log:

Code:
11/2/17, 4:30:15 PM PDT  WakeRequests           Clients requested wake events: [proc=mDNSResponder request=Maintenance inDelta=7198]             
11/2/17, 4:30:15 PM PDT  WakeRequests           PM scheduled RTC wake event: MaintenanceImmediate inDelta=7198.01


Do you have wake for ethernet access checkmarked in Energy Saver? If so, that'll cause what you're experiencing.

The other oddity is this:

Code:
11/2/17, 4:30:14 PM PDT  Assertions             PID 45(hidd) TimedOut UserIsActive "com.apple.iohideventsystem.queue.tickle" 00:13:36  id:0xa00000cdb [System: DeclUser kDisp]             
11/2/17, 4:30:14 PM PDT  Assertions             PID 45(hidd) Released UserIsActive "com.apple.iohideventsystem.queue.tickle" 00:13:36  id:0xa00000cdb [System: DeclUser kDisp]


If you have an external device such as a mouse, printer, or anything that can send a signal on its own or when touched/jostled, that will wake up the computer too. But I'd suspect the good ol' Wake on LAN with that mDNSResponder line in your log. Also, since we're dealing with an RTC event, you might try unchecking the Set Time and Date automatically option in Date & Time. But check the wake for ethernet access first and try one thing at a time to narrow down the cause.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:47 am 
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@ST:

Thanks for your analysis . . . I do have both items checked . . . and they obviously could be unchecked . . . . However, that 11/2 day was a time that I was at work and "using" the computer, I think I included that data to show that the battery was "charged" to 100% at that time, before being put to sleep for the ensuing days, in which it then went to 5% charge by Monday morning . . . .

But, then, the question is what is using so much battery, when the computer is "logged out, wifi off, and clamshell closed and put in computer bag with nothing 'external' connected to it . . . " no ethernet, no mouse, no nothing . . . except "the big sleep" . . . .

In contrast, this past weekend I did shut the computer down for that time period, and this am the battery showed 99% charge . . . so it only lost 1% over the same time that sleep used 95% of the charge . . . .

e.e.p.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:35 pm 
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Despite being closed and put in a bag the system is waking up due to wake events. That causes it to drain power faster than it otherwise would if it was staying in sleep mode.

I'm generally of the mind that if I'm putting my system into a bag for a weekend that it should be shut down. Hell, I put my system into a bag overnight and shut it down first. I don't need the HD spinning up on a particular bumpy stretch of road and getting jarred into physical damage town.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:12 pm 
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I once had a problem with my machine sleeping/waking randomly because I set it on top of another portable Mac, and the magnet in one would trigger the magnetic switch in the other. I was ready to lose my mind until I finally figured out what was going on. :lol:

Probably not the problem in your case, but in the off chance you have a magnet nearby it might be worth checking.

You could also try leaving it on the desk with the lid open, but still asleep, and see if the battery depletion is improved. If it is, there may be something about how it's restively sitting in the case that's trigger unexpected wakes.

- Anonymous


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:13 pm 
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I had a similar problem with systems stacked on my desk, only I couldn't wake the system on top because the system underneath it triggered sleep mode.

I wonder if passing a sufficiently strong magnet over the right spot would trigger sleep/wake events.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:08 pm 
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Well, there was a "wake" episode from the Linux Mint side of things; but still not sure that it's "waking" . . . the items that ST was citing was from a time when I was still more or less using the computer (the 11/2 items) . . . . But, it certainly doesn't use much battery when it's shut down.

Just for full disclosure I do carry an iPod in the case when I'm transporting the computer, but, there is a thick liner between the two items, and the iPod is asleep . . . as well. I guess it could be funny to see if the times when the computer is being driven in the bag during the day for the most part, ???? drained heavily in short bursts while driven to work for 20 mins. by the magnetic pulse generator of the iPod??

Guess it's possible . . . .


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