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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:43 am 
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BDAqua wrote:
Just disconnect it & see if it acts better.


OK, I understand . . . what is "interesting" in this is that the op drive works on the linux side w/o problem . . . . Just OSX has a hissy fit and won't boot passed the kernel panic screen . . . . It'll be a few days or more before I get to bust open the iMac . . . . I'd just like to repair the 12.04 install and let that be the OS until the final breath . . . .

e.e.p.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:02 am 
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If there are two DIMMs installed it would be worth a shot to try and pull one of them and see if the situation changes at all.

I don't know why but every lampshade iMac I've ever seen has had bad RAM in one of the DIMM/SO-DIMM slots.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:44 pm 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
If there are two DIMMs installed it would be worth a shot to try and pull one of them and see if the situation changes at all.

I don't know why but every lampshade iMac I've ever seen has had bad RAM in one of the DIMM/SO-DIMM slots.


@MB:

Yep . . . suddenly in a flood of memory I recall that this machine has indeed been through this "busted RAM" problem . . . as a couple years back I took it to the pros for "diagnosis" and they replaced one stick after testing it for several "weeks" . . . and I brought it home and it ran for a week and then paniced/crashed again . . . so I called them and brought it back and they replaced the stick again . . . and then they said, "we can't keep doing this" . . . .

So I figured it was the mobo that was "killing the RAM" . . . and with the constant panics I just put it on the floor and left it there for "dead;" but, previously it wouldn't boot anything, no OSX, no linux . . . but, now after the PRAM re-set, the linux side is "working" . . . . I can look perhaps in the linux hardware reports and see if it shows how the sticks are doing . . . .

e.e.p.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:07 pm 
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As I recall there's one DIMM accessible on the bottom but there's a second SO-DIMM slot on the top you can only reach after partial disassembly, and the SO-DIMM is usually where I find the RAM is bad (whatever's installed there has probably been there since the factory). I think that system can run with a DIMM and no SO-DIMM.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:44 pm 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
As I recall there's one DIMM accessible on the bottom but there's a second SO-DIMM slot on the top you can only reach after partial disassembly, and the SO-DIMM is usually where I find the RAM is bad (whatever's installed there has probably been there since the factory). I think that system can run with a DIMM and no SO-DIMM.


Alrighty, since this iMac started crashing I've since had some more experience breaking open computers and fiddling with them. Way back this was my old faithful that never had a problem . . . I think I opened it to put an airport card in, that was it. Now, I'm OK with messing with RAM . . . only thing from BD's post on disassembly . . . I don't have too many if any, torx drivers . . . although I think somebody said it's possible to use something else like a regular screwdriver or a phillips that hits some of the torx faces??

Anyway, it's not too difficult to pull the RAM, question is why is it breaking RAM so often? I wouldn't want to waste time/energy replacing RAM if the mobo is breaking sticks??

Later today I'll try to see if the linux side will give me a "status" on the RAM sticks


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:51 pm 
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Well, the Zombie story continues . . . the PowerMac has again descended into the Nether regions and is refusing to "chime" on boot . . . it's been "unplugged" . . . for awhile.

So, back over to the iMac800, which seems to have "corrupted" data in the Xubuntu side, but runs; OSX is back to instant "crash."

Turns out I had gsmartcontrol installed in Xu, so I ran that after I ran two different Apple Hardware Test CDs . . . which usually isn't too helpful as everything "passed." So running gsmartcontrol's "extended test" . . . the "general health impressions" were that it "passed" as well, but the extended test completed at 30% with a "read failure" . . . LBA of first error -- 88016818 . . . .

It showed the "ATA error count" at 90 . . . life hours 8375 with "uncorrectable error in data" . . . "5 sectors at LBA=0x05e7320d=99037933"

In one of the other tables it showed in "Attributes" . . . a number of boxes with **pre-failure** and others mostly with "old age" . . . . Previously I think I saw these "pre-failure" stats and I optimistically viewed them as meaning, "before" or "yet to fail" and seeing that as a "good thing" . . . but, with time comes "pessimism" and the understanding that that probably means "imminent doom is about to happen, or is actually in the process of happening, and this is the last ray of light before all goes very, very dark . . . " ???

So, seems like it is time to look around and see if HDs are still available for this machine . . . I'm not too worried about the OSX side, as I have a clone back-up that I could clone back into the system by FW . . . .

But, I'm figuring that if I could transfer data for the Xubuntu side, it probably isn't recommended as some data in the system has been damaged, and that would transfer into the new HD and wouldn't be any more repairable than it is now?? Still have the "special" Xubuntu 12.04 installer to do a fresh install if and when we get there . . . just have to refresh my memory on whether that needed boot params to run . . . .

The two "DIMM" sticks of 512MB each tested "OK" in original AHT CD, as well as in the OS9 version . . . . Right now I'm thinking that perhaps the op drive is "OK" and that the problem now is the near doom status of the HD itself . . . any chance there would be SSD's available for the G4 iMac?? Or, only choice is for reg. HDs, but it could "read" more than the present 60GB Seagate it has now????

e.e.p.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:28 am 
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Hey guyz . . . guyz . . . ????

So I found OWC's offerings for int HDs . . . only seem to have a 40 GB spinning HD for $17 . . . OEM is 60GB, which I like to have room for a linux partition . . . then jumping up to SSD of 60GB which is $72+ and seems to be a "SATA" drive that has an ATA/IDE adapter, so that conceivably the drive to could be moved over to the Mac Pro at some point . . . or doubling the GB to 120 GB for $99 . . . so not a great difference there, but I thought I've seen SSDs of 250 GB for roughly the same price??

Anyway, as in my question above I was wondering how much drive space the iMac 800 could "recognize" . . . and seems like maybe that depends upon the OSX version . . . and then, question is whether trying to find a 250 GB SSD SATA drive somewhere or with OWC and buying a SATA to IDE adapter is possible to do and have the iMac "recognize the space"??

And, another option, as the PowerMac has again bit the dust, I could take the whatever it is 120 GB HD that I got a year back from there and move it to the iMac . . . caveat there is that it is now running 10.5, which was the stumbling block on the iMac 800 which "stalls" at 10.4 . . . so clearly the iMac won't boot the 10.5 and might have problems running U-MATE 16.04 side as well.

Is it possible to "retro-install" Tiger onto the 10.5 system by doing "archive and install" so that all the files from what was originally on the iMac, transferred to PM, could be saved . . . without spending a lot of time transferring them back over?

Or, nope, only way to go back is to wipe the drive, or do "erase install" and start fresh "migrating" the files from what is now 10.5 clone to what would have to be a 10.4 install to run on the iMac? Doesn't seem like the PM is going to "walk the zombie-land path for much longer" in spite of having the 1.2 GHz cpu, the raging two GBs RAM, and the fresh HD . . . its journey seems to be coming to a close . . . but, perhaps the HD could be wrenched from its bosom and move over to the tighter confines of the iMac??? Or the joys of an SSD would slightly "elevate" the iMac and for a bit more speed and humor the iMac might zip along for a little while longer??

e.e.p.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:58 am 
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For a 800 MHz iMac G4 what is the Max 3.5" HD Capacity Possible. Does it have the 128 GB limit?

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/1284522?tstart=0


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 1:34 pm 
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BDAqua wrote:
Quote:
For a 800 MHz iMac G4 what is the Max 3.5" HD Capacity Possible. Does it have the 128 GB limit?

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/1284522?tstart=0


OK . . . got it, seems like any size HD would work. Haven't decided if I would go for new HD/SSD or try to re-use the HD from the PM . . . any links to threads where the OP was asking "Can I retro install 10.4 to an HD that is now running 10.5 without losing files or do I have to do 'nuke n pave'???" :badteeth: :whip:


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm 
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In my experience you have to nuke to get back to 10.4 from 10.5, then do manual migration of files, though if you had it all backed up, you might try forcing the issue with Pacifist.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 4:20 pm 
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BDAqua wrote:
In my experience you have to nuke to get back to 10.4 from 10.5, then do manual migration of files, though if you had it all backed up, you might try forcing the issue with Pacifist.


"Pacifist"??? Pacifist???? . . . we don't need no stinking Pacifists . . . !!!!! :coffee:

I recall from way back in Panther days you gave me some guidance on doing something to fix an Apple Pa screw-up that involved using Pacifist, and possibly I managed to follow your directions to somewhat good avail . . . and so at least on my iBook (also showing I/O error as well, they are all going to PPC zombie-ville) that I probably have it installed or perhaps in a back up somwhere.

But, I haven't done anything with it since then . . . there are clones of the now 10.5 iMac system . . . what would I be doing with Pacifist??? I have no objection to trying to "force an issue" on occasion, but there is a subtle "art" to doing it properly . . . .

e..


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 4:58 pm 
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Booted from one of your 10.5 backups, you'd use Pacifist to install 10.4 Install Disc over another copy of 10.5

Apple's Installer won't let you install earlier version of OS X, Pacifist will.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 2:50 pm 
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BDAqua wrote:
Booted from one of your 10.5 backups, you'd use Pacifist to install 10.4 Install Disc over another copy of 10.5
Apple's Installer won't let you install earlier version of OS X, Pacifist will.


@BDAq:

I could use a couple more "hints" . . . I found Pacifist 2.0.1 app and read through the Information page, and it did bring back the memory of when you were helping people with some .kext thingie on 10.3 . . . . But, it didn't exactly provide any comments on how it could be used to "retro-install" or downgrade OSX . . . so it isn't exactly clear that what I would attempt to do could be done or not. I've detailed the various options as I understand them below . . . which may help me to think it through . . . on "paper" . . . thanks for playing; know it's a holiday, just using my time/space to try to figure this one out while I have time, etc.

1. I have to move the HD from the PM 3,1 that no longer boots OSX or runs linux over to the iMac that doesn't boot OSX, but still boots linux. That HD has 10.5 on it and that 10.5 won't boot up in the iMac.

2. I have a CCC clone of the PM 10.5 system on an ext HD, so I'd have to get a copy of Pacifist installed on the clone, and then try to boot the iMac from the clone???? iMac won't "recognize" a 10.5 system, clone or not . . . so I don't see that as working.

3. The iBook could boot 10.5, but the HD is too small to have OSX and linux, so it is just running 10.4 . . . I think a long while back I "daisy-chained" two PPC machines through the ext HD, and perhaps one was booted as "Target" and I might have been able to do something to the Target via the other unit plugged into the Ext HD . . . as each PPC machine only has ONE FW port I can't connect them directly to each other and be booted up in the ext HD system . . . . Let's say I can get that working somehow to connect them via FW through the Ext HD, and the newish HD is going to be in the iMac with the non-bootable 10.5 system and all of the many files from years ago, which I'm trying to preserve, without dragging them over and so forth.

4. Then, I would put the install disk for 10.4 into the iMac??? Or, let's say the iBook is still working then I would put the install disk in the iBook, and launch the Pacifist that is installed there . . . and then I would look to see if the "open Apple Install Packages" button is "active" and if it is, click that . . . and then a GUI is going to show me the several disks that are available and I can select that disk . . . and Pacifist is going to walk me automatically through the whole retro-install??

Or, I'd have to pick the "install packages" button and then "manually" pick the packages that I'd want to use and install from the 10.4 installer and install them one by one to "build it myself"?? And, that would be something that I wouldn't exactly know which I would need and which I wouldn't . . . .

5. Or, from the iBook, I would boot the 10.5 clone on the Ext HD, then I would insert the 10.4 install disk into the iBook, launch Pacifist, and see if I could "retro-install" 10.4 system into the ext HD clone . . . from the iBook--which in past efforts I haven't found that the OSX installer can install into non-local HD??? And, then, if the clone in the ext HD is able to successfully be made into 10.4 system, then I could boot that new/old clone from the iMac, and use CCC to clone that system into the iMac's "new" HD moved over from the PM?? And, if that would be possible, CCC could see which apps were already installed, or the files that were the same (as the only difference is the 10.5 aspects) and it would just transfer the "new" 10.4 bits over??

Or, let's say I got the ext HD clone to 10.4 w/o anything blowing up, then the OSX side of the new to iMac HD would have to be wiped clean and then CCC would move everything over to the iMac in perfect condition to run for the next few years . . . . All depending on getting the ext HD 10.5 cloned system "reduced" to 10.4 . . . using Pacifist to get there . . . essentially "one click"??? Or, Pacifist retro-install is going to be "build your own system" one package at a time???

e.e.p.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 6:07 pm 
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1. 2. Why won't it boot 10.5???

3. With the iBook in T mode, does the iMac boot from 10.4 on the iBook?

With Pacifist, you can choose to install to a different drive, even if that drive has a later OSD version.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:07 pm 
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BDAqua wrote:
1. 2. Why won't it boot 10.5???

3. With the iBook in T mode, does the iMac boot from 10.4 on the iBook?

With Pacifist, you can choose to install to a different drive, even if that drive has a later OSD version.



iMac 800 doesn't boot 10.5 . . . doesn't meet the syst requirements . . . couldn't get "Lep Asst" to work on it.

3. ??? iBook in T mode?? . . . after I posted my question I tried to boot the iMac from the ext HD via FW using the alt key . . . and on the HD is the iBook clone . . . along with the PM 10.5 clone . . . none of those options showed up in the boot manager window . . . . I don't think that the iMac can boot the iBook system???

I can try the T-mode mode tomorrow, but not anticipating that working to boot the iMac . . . . I'll have to try to figure out the options . . . might have to blank the HD and start fresh on the iMac . . . but, not sure if it's worth "going back" to 10.4 and 800 MHz cpu . . . .

e.e.p


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:12 am 
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Ah, yes, the 800 MHz thing...

There are workarounds if the 867MHz CPU is the only hangup...

http://sourceforge.net/projects/leopardassist/

http://lowendmac.com/osx/leopard/unsupported.html

But it sdhould boot from a clone of 10.5


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:50 am 
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BD:

In the long history of trying to keep the iMac going, many options were tried, many browsers, and also the Lep Asst app . . . couldn't get it to accept the 10.5 install . . . trying the various "machine" options (from memory there were a few choices) none worked.

Cross-posting to comments made on the obsolescence thread . . . after I posted here last night I thought that it might be "easier" to try to upgrade the iBook HD and get enough space to upgrade it to 10.5 . . . haven't had a chance to check OWC for iBook HD options, I'm assuming it is the same as the iMac, the 40GB HD, then jumping to 60 GB SSD or then 120 GB SSD ???? No idea; but, might keep a "viable" PPC platform going that could be used to open PPC files and apps when needed . . . just would work on the internet too well with the less than 1 GB of RAM . . . .

Or, try roam's suggestion of "new" mobo for PM 3,1 . . . which, not sure if that is the problem . . . so many "decisions" . . . none of them "perfect" . . . .

e.e.p.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:50 am 
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Didn't the G4 iMacs have a 3.5" HDD & the iBooks 2.5" HDDF

Though an SSD should work for either & alleviate low RAM problems.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:45 am 
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BDAqua wrote:
Didn't the G4 iMacs have a 3.5" HDD & the iBooks 2.5" HDDF

Though an SSD should work for either & alleviate low RAM problems.


BD:

Don't know, haven't looked into it yet. As the iBook is still "working" but in linux testing showed as "pre-failure" I wasn't thinking about doing anything to the iBook until last night. I would assume that indeed the HD from the PM wouldn't slip over to the laptop . . . but, for perhaps a little easier installation, it might be a way to go . . . as I have the iBook cloned, so easy to get back to where I was . . . and then do the upgrade to 10.5.

I wouldn't get all the many files over from the PM, but, the iBook could "operate" them, and then if the speed boost of putting an SSD into it would actually do something, it might be the solution. Some of the olde Apple gurus have said that it's not recommended to go SSD in the olde machines??? but, I haven't checked into what OWC provides for the iBook 933 just yet . . . like perhaps a larger HD than the present 40 GB would be just has "OK" for much less $$$

The only problem going this route would be having to remember the boot params for the linux side of the dual-boot for the iBook/radeon driver . . . I haven't backed up the linux installs as they do change frequently, or "blow up" . . . it's all more "transient" on the linux side, except now, most have dropped support for PPC--which was what brought me to linux in the first place . . . keepin on with the PPC machines . . . .

PS: [edit 1]: So I tried to boot the iBook in Target Mode and hooked it to the iMac via FW . . . no dice . . . the FW disk didn't show up in the iMac choices to boot via Alt key, and I was able to to boot into OSX w/o it "crashing" . . . and no FW disk showed up on the desktop . . . so I can't remember back if there was some thought that the FW card in the iMac might be toast . . . . So, while I was there I played a few moves on the olde Sigma Chess app . . . . So, the OSX 10.4 iMac zombie walked around a little bit . . . seems like the zombie is jumping around between the three machines . . . leaving one for dead and reviving another . . . without written notification . . . . :bonk: :upset: :classic-eek: :whip: :coffee:


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 5:26 am 
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There's a way to modify the 10.5 installer to remove the 867Mhz check. You would have to copy it to a read/write dmg, modify the appropriate file, then write it to a DVD-R though... 10.5 install discs only work in optical drives, it wasn't until 10.6 that you could clone it to other media. Its been years since I did this but Google was my friend back then, the instructions are still probably percolating around the internet.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 6:42 am 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
There's a way to modify the 10.5 installer to remove the 867Mhz check. You would have to copy it to a read/write dmg, modify the appropriate file, then write it to a DVD-R though... 10.5 install discs only work in optical drives, it wasn't until 10.6 that you could clone it to other media. Its been years since I did this but Google was my friend back then, the instructions are still probably percolating around the internet.


@MB:

Thanks for the thought; interestingly I have the installer copied into a partition of the ext HD, and I did use it to install the system . . . don't remember if I dragged it into the computer and then ran it . . . .

But, sounds like a job for "Pacifist"???? Bringing the suggestions around in the great circle of shared data??

e.e.p.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:13 am 
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Quote:
it wasn't until 10.6 that you could clone it to other media.

Hmmm, which one of me is confused? I recall installing both Tiger/10.4 & Leopard/10.5 from HDD & Flash cloned Installer Discs, possibly even back far earlier… but then again, my memory isn't as sharp as my memory w… what was I saying???


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:24 am 
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BDAqua wrote:
Quote:
it wasn't until 10.6 that you could clone it to other media.

Hmmm, which one of me is confused? I recall installing both Tiger/10.4 & Leopard/10.5 from HDD & Flash cloned Installer Discs, possibly even back far earlier… but then again, my memory isn't as sharp as my memory w… what was I saying???


Yeah, now I'm also confused about something that I can't remember . . . . :classic-eek: :emphatic-eek:

e.e.p.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:25 am 
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You remember you can't remember!? :P

I wonder if MB's experience was with maybe Intel or Machine specific Discs?

Or am I clearly unclear about what I forgot & remember???


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:46 am 
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BDAqua wrote:
You remember you can't remember!? :P

I wonder if MB's experience was with maybe Intel or Machine specific Discs?

Or am I clearly unclear about what I forgot & remember???


Nope. I just can't remember what I'm confused about . . . "remembering what I can't remember" is too complicated . . . .

But, right, it could have been a machine specific install disk that created this "glitch" in MB's "remembering" . . . we all have "glitches" or "patch memory" issues . . . nothing to be ashamed of . . . **it happens . . . .

e.


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