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 Post subject: A musing on obsolescence
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:32 pm 
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An upside to obsolescence is upgrading is cheap. The downside is that the hardware remains obsolete.
In 2004 I bought an iBook for travel. Two years later I upgraded the RAM in it to 512MB (640MB after including the onboard) for AUD$109.
Recently I bought a 1GB RAM card for it from China, for AUD$4.18 including shipping - and it works!

Some things you buy and get great value out of them, like my recently deceased old HP printer or my Epson Perfection Photo scanner which has produced a lot of stuff and is still useful; and other tech that was not such a good buy like the iBook. Still, at least it's chocka block fulla RAM now - and it has one PPC game on it I like to play. Spartan.

Edit - put my MB's and GB's in a row.


Last edited by roam on Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:30 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 2:08 pm 
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@roam:

With you on the "if it ain't broke, don't fix (or replace) it" . . . still trying to flog my various PPC units forward . . . getting a bit harder as time carries on. Recently found that my iMac 800 might be "alive" again . . . just need to transfer the HD out of the once again toasted PM 3,1 that was doing "OK" until a few months ago . . . yep, "parts" are cheap . . . but, then, hard to get ahead of the stuff that is "breaking" . . . . "Time" also IS "money" . . . and at a certain point, perhaps it "don't make sense" . . . but, still, keeping the PPC ball bouncing is "patriotic" to the original Apple vision and, um, line of products . . . .

e.e.p.

PS: Obviously, Apple no longer "supports" that line of products . . . <snif>


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:33 pm 
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When hardware changes and leaves software behind, the consumer is the one who carries the cost of Apple's onwards and upwards most glorious path. It is good to try and keep some old architecture alive if for the sake of old but still enjoyed software.

Cross posting now, with your ongoing zombie battle, have you considered buying a complete motherboard for your machine and swapping it in, given the cost of this old tech is now so cheap.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:24 am 
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But everything has changed with new hardware. It used to be you could get a computer somebody else has abandoned because perhaps a slightly faster CPU had come out, plus they either didn't know how to or care to invest in upgrading RAM and drive capacity to bring it in line with modern demands. It was that way with my late 2008 MacBook for which my niece got a replacement because this one was "too slow". It had Mavericks but only 2 GB RAM with a 250 GB 5200 rpm HDD that had been partitioned by a boyfriend so he could run Windows too. For $150 I upgraded to 8 GB RAM and 1 TB 7200 HDD. I still use Mavericks but if I wanted to I could install El Capitan, or even risk Sierra with some of the hacks you find on the Internet.

Anyway, this has ceased. Now that Apple has everything soldered into place and people tending to buy configured for the moment and not the future, there's a whole bunch of more or less useless computers heading down the secondhand market which can't be upgraded for that extra couple of years of use.

P.S. "Mb" = mega bit but I think you mean MB = mega byte.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:37 am 
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roam wrote:
Cross posting now, with your ongoing zombie battle, have you considered buying a complete motherboard for your machine and swapping it in, given the cost of this old tech is now so cheap.



@roam: Thanks for the cross post thoughts . . . well, not exactly . . . "used mobo for sale, only driven to church on Sunday by the little old lady from Pasadena . . ." ?? Might be possible to find a 3,1 mobo for cheap, certainly easier to work on the PM than the iMac, plus it has the 1.2 GHz cpu . . . . I did check the mobo for the little red light and at that time it was lit. My thought last night was that it might be "easier" to upgrade the iBook HD to something a little larger, and then do the 10.5 upgrade on that . . . giving me 933 MHz cpu, but, only 645 mB of RAM . . . ??? Nothing quite makes sense across all the specs . . . might be an olde mobo would do it--but, once again don't know why it isn't booting.

Limnos wrote:
But everything has changed with new hardware. I still use Mavericks but if I wanted to I could install El Capitan, or even risk Sierra with some of the hacks you find on the Internet.
Anyway, this has ceased. Now that Apple has everything soldered into place and people tending to buy configured for the moment and not the future, there's a whole bunch of more or less useless computers heading down the secondhand market which can't be upgraded for that extra couple of years of use.

P.S. "Mb" = mega bit but I think you mean MB = mega byte.


@Limnos:

Agreed, still running my perfectly OK 09 MBPro . . . upgraded the RAM as you did to the max 8 GB, waiting for the HD to pass before trying out an SSD . . . perfectly fine for schlepping around to work; put a used optical drive in it . . . set up for triple boot, first partition is original system 10.6, second is 10.9, and third is Linux Mint something, the almost latest --18.2 MATE as I do like MATE. Now I like Gecko MATE for my linux squeeze, but, not worth the time to change it now.

If this computer were to pass I would shop the re-sellers for a <2012 Apple to get into the non-soldered laptops . . . or, gasp, might go to dark side and run linux as the base system . . . for more reasonable price tag and non-soldered parts.

e.e.p.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:23 am 
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A couple weeks ago I upgraded an 11yo Core Duo laptop to a 128GB SSD, new battery, and 802.11n WiFi for a little over $100 (the card was all of $15). I dutifully reinstalled the (current) 32-bit version of Windows 10 onto the new SSD and the thing runs wonderfully. Better than any laptop with only 2.5GB of RAM running fully up-to-date software has any right to run.

When I see Apple axing support for systems older than 2010 with their new OSes I start wondering just how long it'll be until people start looking at other people's lawns for their shades of green.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:39 am 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
A couple weeks ago I upgraded an 11yo Core Duo laptop to a 128GB SSD, new battery, and 802.11n WiFi for a little over $100 (the card was all of $15). I dutifully reinstalled the (current) 32-bit version of Windows 10 onto the new SSD and the thing runs wonderfully. Better than any laptop with only 2.5GB of RAM running fully up-to-date software has any right to run.

When I see Apple axing support for systems older than 2010 with their new OSes I start wondering just how long it'll be until people start looking at other people's lawns for their shades of green.


@MB:

Was that an Apple computer with the Core Duo? Or PC? But, seems to be agreement among long term Apple users that the present "business model" for Apple is the iPhone and/or iPad . . . perhaps now the Watch . . . as all part of the **glorious Lifestyle** benefits that go along with owning Apple gadgets . . . also pushing for AI with Siri giving hints on how to upgrade one's day so that it is more in line with the Apple vision statement. It's all too beautiful . . . .

e.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:51 pm 
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Limnos wrote:
P.S. "Mb" = mega bit but I think you mean MB = mega byte.

Thanks, I've fixed that now.

Just in general, I've always found it very satisfying to be able to fix something, to extend its life. Not just to save money but also gives a feeling of usefulness, and of having some control too.
Remember the capacitor failings a decade ago. It also affected some other electronics like cameras, and <long story short> to disassemble and resolder in a new capacitor on my digital camera was very pleasing.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 5:18 am 
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este.el.paz wrote:
Was that an Apple computer with the Core Duo? Or PC?
Its a little Dell with a 10.-something inch screen. Does everything I want it to do.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 6:38 am 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
este.el.paz wrote:
Was that an Apple computer with the Core Duo? Or PC?
Its a little Dell with a 10.-something inch screen. Does everything I want it to do.


@MB:

Thanks, yep . . . I'm finding that a hand-me-down Chromebook covers much of what I need to do . . . and/or the PC offerings are in the ball park for a lesser buy in . . . . Still, messing a bit with my possibly '00-ish iMac with a 15 inch screen with Nvidia card . . . very crisp . . . but something about that driver makes it a bear to get linux running right on it . . . . :fishsmack:

e.e.p.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:01 am 
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For basic stuff I picked up a 14" Chromebook with a 1080p screen and quad-core Intel CPU for $180 a couple months ago. Aluminum case too. Unfortunately it arrived with half the keyboard not working but a couple weeks later it came back from the depot fully functional.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:37 am 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
For basic stuff I picked up a 14" Chromebook with a 1080p screen and quad-core Intel CPU for $180 a couple months ago. Aluminum case too. Unfortunately it arrived with half the keyboard not working but a couple weeks later it came back from the depot fully functional.



@MB:

Hard to beat the price, and on the Intel units it's easy to expand the function by adding linux . . . . Mine is an "ARM" processor so I had to use some app to add the lxde DE . . . and then some other app which booted it from a tab in the browser . . . pretty easy. But, then the system is "finicky" and it did something to log itself out . . . and I had forgotten about "D-mode" . . . and it erased the linux aspect.

That HD is so small it isn't worth adding the linux back in, but the larger Intel cpu's I think you can "install" it, rather than what is like a VB version . . . what do they call it, a "chroot" . . . .

But for checking the TV listings and for other online stuff while zoning out watching television, that "netbook" is a pretty good value . . . .

e.e.eeeeep


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:35 pm 
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Yeah, the first couple generations of Chromebooks were PC laptops that were repurposed into Chromebooks, you could put it into developer mode, flash a new firmware to it, and voila, you could run Linux, Windows, whatever you wanted, natively.

The new ones are a lot more challenging. Which is good if you want a platform that can't easily be mucked with. The worst that happens if it's been mucked with is you reboot it. You would not believe the number of times I ask students "when was the last time you rebooted..." works wonders for their Macs too, many won't even reboot to install security updates which leads to a sad panda.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:16 pm 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
Yeah, the first couple generations of Chromebooks were PC laptops that were repurposed into Chromebooks, you could put it into developer mode, flash a new firmware to it, and voila, you could run Linux, Windows, whatever you wanted, natively.

The new ones are a lot more challenging. Which is good if you want a platform that can't easily be mucked with. The worst that happens if it's been mucked with is you reboot it. You would not believe the number of times I ask students "when was the last time you rebooted..." works wonders for their Macs too, many won't even reboot to install security updates which leads to a sad panda.


Hmmm, yeah I'm all about the "reboot" . . . and right, I did the Developer mode for my ARM cpu, but I was under the impression that the newer Intel cpu's were **easier** to install and run linux on . . . natively . . . ??? Plus more HD space than the 15GB or whatever that mine has . . . well, not ready to buy today . . . guess I'd have to search "the Googler" to see what's what . . . . I'm pretty used to linux these days, right now my fave is Gecko MATE . . . a spin of Open SUSE with the MATE DE . . . very nice system, small footprint, etc . . . runs pretty well out of the box.

e.e.p.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:34 am 
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I'll admit I haven't really looked into it, but I'm pretty sure you're stuck with the same solution to run Linux natively... reflash the firmware so it can run an OS besides Chrome. x86 would be easier to chroot but that's not a good solution since you're losing a lot of ssd space and there's not much to start with.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:49 am 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
I'll admit I haven't really looked into it, but I'm pretty sure you're stuck with the same solution to run Linux natively... reflash the firmware so it can run an OS besides Chrome. x86 would be easier to chroot but that's not a good solution since you're losing a lot of ssd space and there's not much to start with.


@MB:

It **sort of** defeats the "mission" of the Chromebook to install another system; I did the process twice on mine while fiddling around with trying to get it set up, and then I guess the Googler caught wind of my efforts and logged me out of D-mode or something and it wiped the install . . . I think I even at one point had to re-install Chrome (or whatever it calls itself) back into the hollow shell of a netbook . . . the soulless internet wanderer . . . .

And, after that I've just used it as what it is . . . a browser window for jumping around on the web . . . hasn't done anything wacky since then . . . . It's light, and I like the physical keyboard, it's not a bad "value" . . . it just isn't a full service computer . . . . We'll see how it goes; it is somewhat amusing to figure out how to get machines to run linux system . . . specially on a Mac . . . . :whip:


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:11 am 
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When you're in developer mode and reboot it will stop, beep, and ask you to press space to switch out of developer mode. After 30 seconds or so it will continue. But if you hit space there's no going back. Going to and from developer mode wipes all user data.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:00 am 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
When you're in developer mode and reboot it will stop, beep, and ask you to press space to switch out of developer mode. After 30 seconds or so it will continue. But if you hit space there's no going back. Going to and from developer mode wipes all user data.


Yep. Been there, done that . . . .


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