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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:25 pm 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
If the G4 is put into target disk mode a firewire icon should appear on its screen.
If that icon doesn't appear then it's unlikely the G4 is in TDM and it's probably just frozen at an earlier point in the startup/initialization process.
Have you tried pulling all but 1 DIMM from the system and see if the situation changes? If its still dead try one of the other DIMMs in its place. Sorry if you mentioned it, functioning on 1 hour of sleep right now...


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MB, on the FW symbol... except sometimes if the Video card or monitor is not working?


@BD && MB: Thanks for the follow-up . . . part of the story is that in the recent saga, the video wasn't working, as the sign that there was a "problem" . . . black screen . . . . So, when I pulled it out from it's slot, the G4 is now not plugged into the display . . . which among other things seemed to provide at least a chime that would chirp on occasion . . . .

So, indeed, there would be no "FW" icon on the screen . . . shared by both the G4 and the MP . . . i.e., display is fine.

The G4 of course only has 2 GB RAM, which was only recently upgraded to its max capacity . . . should be "OK"?? Only other "suspect" is the eBay purchased Mercury Extreme cpu, which may have been flogged by its former owner and/or an eBay optical drive to replace the previous item . . . .

I could try to plug the G4 back into the display after pulling RAM to leave one stick . . . see what happens, etc.

e..e.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:42 pm 
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I'd try it with the one stick, though 2 GB should be fine.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:24 pm 
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Yes, the idea is that RAM can fail, so trying it with one stick rules out one of the other sticks from having failed. Swapping sticks kind of removes RAM as the point of failure for the most part, since its fairly unlikely to have had both sticks fail.

I'm not entirely sure if a G4 will boot w/o a video card installed. You can boot them w/o a display attached to the card, but I'm pretty sure you need a card to be present. I know PCs of that same (AGP) era will blow a POST (power on self test) code if you tried.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:53 pm 
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@MB:

As a point of conversation, if I'm pulling parts and seeing if anything changes, if the video card would likely need to be present, what about the usb card?? Possibly I could pull that and see if the computer boots more consistently and/or if the display would "fire"???

I'm thnking "co-morbidities" . . . "perfect storm" of a few items . . . busted, or busting? But, lack of response to keyboard inputs might point to "usb port card"??


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:18 pm 
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To my knowledge it has to be either PCI or AGP, otherwise it can't allocate video memory and fails to POST.

Again, though, this is from PCs. I've never actually tried to boot a G4 w/o a video card. I've seen plenty of PCs whose video cards failed and they started blowing POST codes though.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:27 pm 
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I'm pausing for a tad bit on this one . . . because of a lack of work space to be able to have the PM out and easily accessible for fiddling . . . I've more or less decided that I'll probably pul the trigger on the adaptor such that, when I pull the unit out, if it fails to chime or anything else I can just move on to removing or unplugging the HD and hook it up to copy the var log over . . . rather than having to pull it out, fiddle, put it back . . . . Path of least resistance . . . I'll post back when something "new" transpires . . . .

e.


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 8:35 am 
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Update: ordered the Newegg usb3 part yesterday . . . searching amazon seemed to show the same item for "less" but then in the comments people were talking about "needing the power source" . . . and in the list of contents was "power adaptor" . . . for european plugs . . . but "power source" wasn't mentioned . . . .

And did the "egg saver" shipping, which is "free" . . . arriving in 4 - 7 days . . . so, like everything, no free lunch, and everything takes time and effort to do, there are many, many items seeming to be "the same" that it is hard to know what makes the best choice . . . but, I have an older ext HD which I can use this item to access the data there, as well as the PM . . . and any future HD issues . . . so it won't go unused.

Only complaint I have about Newegg is that they seemed to spontaneously add the "THZY usb2 adaptor" for 8.99 that we were talking about last week . . . to the cart . . . took several tries to delete it . . . minor PITA upsell attempt to an otherwise simple transaction . . . server AI "games" I guess . . . the new reality in online purchasing.

e...


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 10:42 am 
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Depending on what warehouse the item is in sometimes newegg saver is 2 day shipping for me. Other times, like when it ships across the country, it takes 7 days.

On Amazon (and NewEgg) you can choose what sellers to show you results from, limiting it to Amazon should get rid of any funny results. NewEgg thankfully has that little radio box above the search results to restrict you to just NewEgg, while Amazon just makes you go through more clicks to find it... assuming it even exists (e.g. search for a Nintendo Switch when only third parties have stock, Amazon.com isn't even a seller option). Amazon apparently makes most of their store profit on third party sales so they're in no hurry to only show you the stuff they sell themselves.


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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 2:38 pm 
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OK . . . very exciting . . . got the usb3 adaptor thingie yesterday . . . so, cutting to the "quick" I pulled the HD from the PM and plugged it into the thingie . . . and, even though it says "operating systems supported --windows or servers" . . . the HD mounted on the Mpro desktop running 10.12.

But, searching through all of the folders and using spotlight doesn't show any >private >var >log >system.log ?? It finds a "private" folder, but it is "empty" . . . looked in "users" and through a number of folders . . . .

I did find a SMARTReporter log that showed two incidents of "Warning: skipping I/0 error check--system logfile (/private/var/log/system.log) grew by more than 1 MB in 10 mins--something is spamming your logfile" . . . . But, then a subsequent report showed "status OK" . . . . One of the errors was in July and the other was then in Dec . . . I've lost track of when I got the used eBay Mercury cpu, but it was causing havoc with the operating systems for awhile . . . until we got the dnetc thing running.

So, I could use some more hints about where to look for the log file . . . it's a tad "confusing" because the original 10.1/OS9 system files are still there in the top level of the HD . . . along with what should be now the OSX 10.5 PPC files . . . "system" and "library" didn't show anything that said "private" or "var" . . . I looked through "Documents" . . . hmm, the only place I didn't look was "Applications" . . . would this item be in "Utilities" somewhere???

I just went with the inference of "/private/var/log" would either be "System" or top level of the disk or in Library of the top level . . . but searching "private" found a folder . . . which was empty . . . ???? So, I ejected the disk and unplugged it . . . . :bonk: :classic-eek: :snail:

e.e.p


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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 2:54 pm 
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Find Any File...

http://apps.tempel.org/FindAnyFile/

Name>contains>system.log

Hold Option or alt key when selecting Find to Find All.

You can have it search just that drive. You could even Searh for Name ends in .log


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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 3:00 pm 
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Spotlight does a horrible job searching system folders under the best of circumstances.

You're better off using the Go menu in Finder, then selecting Go to Folder, and typing /Volumes/YourVolumeName/private/var/log/... if both disks are named Macintosh HD you can first go to /Volumes to figure out what your HD is called... it's usually Macintosh HD 1 then 2 and so on for matching volume names...

Don't tell them it works with Macs - they may raise the price. :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 4:27 pm 
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Alrighty, a couple of options to try out . . . first I would try the "free" option: so the name of the HD should be the name that is under the icon/image of the mounted item . . . but I would use the "Go" in the booted OSX 10.12 toolbar, rather than trying to manually rifle through the folders that show up when I click on the HD icon??

Other than that, there is no "place" where this folder is "physically" located in a normal system?? I know I've seen it checked off when I'm using CCC to clone the system to an ext HD, but, is this folder a "hidden" folder??

I know I've had to look up similar stuff in linux systems and the "var" folder is usually "visible" . . . but seemingly here it isn't??

Another possible option is that this HD has also U-MATE 16.04 PPC installed on it for dual-boot, but, that didn't show up when I booted or mounted the HD in OSX . . . would the adaptor thingie work if I booted my Mac Pro into one of my linux systems and then hot-wired the PM's HD ??? Would it then show me the linux filesystem, which might possibly have the linux systems logs . . . which might or might not be "easier" to find and might possibly show something about the "why" that the computer won't boot???

e.e.p


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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 4:39 pm 
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Quote:
would the adaptor thingie work if I booted my Mac Pro into one of my linux systems and then hot-wired the PM's HD ???

It should one would think. :)

I do believe it is hidden, but everything is set to visible in every possible way on my machines.


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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 9:05 pm 
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BDAqua wrote:
Quote:
would the adaptor thingie work if I booted my Mac Pro into one of my linux systems and then hot-wired the PM's HD ???

It should one would think. :)

I do believe it is hidden, but everything is set to visible in every possible way on my machines.


Ah . . . how are the visible/non-visi settings set? Possibly not adjustable now?? Or could be fiddled with via the adaptor access? Ran out of time to play on this today . . . might have time to boot it up tomorrow evening . . . .

e.e.


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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 10:47 pm 
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One way...

Show Hidden Files 1.0...

http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/29096/ ... dden-files


Hidden Way is a toggle for hidden files view in Finder...

http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/25716/hidden-way


OOPs, forgot, MacUpDate often wraps Downloads in unwanted stinkware. :(


Show hidden files in OSX Finder

Open the Terminal and type or copy/paste:

defaults write com.apple.finder AppleShowAllFiles -bool true

Reverting to the default of NOT showing hidden files:

defaults write com.apple.finder AppleShowAllFiles -bool false

*Restart or Force Quit Finder required to take effect.*

http://www.apple.com/downloads/dashboar ... files.html

http://www.burobjorn.nl/blog/?p=96

Finder Force Quit, or restart required to take effect.

But Apple has come up with new innovative ways also, so it depends which version you run... 10.worthless, 10.moreworthless, 10.couldn'tbemoreworthless, 10.ohyeahyouwannabet?


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 7:03 am 
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@BD:

Thanks for the details . . . looks like I'd have to be able to boot the system to able to do that . . . or possibly it would be more complicated to get a console to reach over to the HD files . . . .

Anyway, it's all for s**ts and giggles . . . I can now access the files that are in the HD via the adaptor . . . I dragged a few things over yesterday. I'll see if I can get to the var folder in OSX, and if not I'll try to reboot into linux and I should be able to find the system.log there.

Is there any problem with rebooting the computer while the HD is "hot-wired" into the Mac Pro?? Do I need to un-plug and/or shut down to get it to mount in the new OS of choice??

e.e.p.


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 11:04 am 
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No need to boot the system to do that.

No worry on Shutdown, Restart or such with it hot wired.


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 12:07 pm 
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BDAqua wrote:
No need to boot the system to do that.


Aha . . . so you are saying that I could run those commands for the PM now "external" HD with the 10.5 system on it . . . by using the Mac Pro 10.12 Terminal to change the settings in the Powermac . . . to make the "hidden" folders show up in . . . 10.5???

No, right??? Wouldn't I have to boot the 10.5 HD in a computer to access the system I'm targeting??? Or, I'd have to use complex commands to "target" the "hot-wired" HD as where I'm pointing the commands . . . at??

e.e.p.


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 12:18 pm 
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The hidden folders re NOT on the powerMac, they re on your Mac Pro now, you run the command on your MP to see hidden files on drives attached to your MP. :)

No we're just "looking" at the PM's System, not running it or anything, this isn't liker Open Heart Surgery, it's like an Autopsy.


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 12:47 pm 
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BDAqua wrote:
The hidden folders re NOT on the powerMac, they re on your Mac Pro now, you run the command on your MP to see hidden files on drives attached to your MP. :)
No we're just "looking" at the PM's System, not running it or anything, this isn't liker Open Heart Surgery, it's like an Autopsy.



Oh, so running those commands is possibly like "sudo cat" in linux . . . which might be short for "catalog" . . . it just lists stuff w/o changing anything, and that would be including mounted drives??

I'm just saying that I haven't "dragged/dropped" the disk to transfer the files into the MPro . . . but it seems like that's what you are saying (that it isn't necessary, it's OK to just have it "attached") . . . .

And, sure, I get that this is "autopsy" . . . or perhaps "zombie apocalypse" "intervention" . . . I'm still somewhat hoping to "revive" the zombie and flog it into playing the PPC game for awhile longer.

I'm going to try the "Go" to folder option a few ways to see if that shows anything, then next step try your commands here.

e.e.p


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 3:23 pm 
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Running the command in Terminal will change hoe Finder sees things on your Mac Pro, but can be changed back.

BTW Find Any File use would eliminate all this need.


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 5:10 pm 
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cat in linux is short for concatenate, not catalog. Basically it opens a file and outputs whatever's in the file to the screen. "type" is the equivalent command in DOS/Windows. sudo cat would be to open a file that's only available for reading by root and then output/print it to the screen.

Finder is just hiding files and folders set to be hidden. There's a way in Terminal to make files & folders not hidden (besides BD's command that changes Finder's behavior, there's a way to change the hidden flag that control's Finders default behavior) but things like OS updates will wander through and set OS stuff back to hidden so you probably don't want to do that. Go -> Go to Folder will open Finder to any folder that exists in your system provided you give it the correct path to that folder. This includes things like hidden folders like /private. If both HDs are named Macintosh HD then you have to figure out what the actual name of the PPC's Macintosh HD is. By default it will mount the booted Macintosh HD to / and create a /Volumes/Macintosh HD/ symbolic link to /. Any subsequent Macintosh HD disks get mounted as /Volumes/Macintosh HD 1/ and so on. If each disk has a unique name then you don't have to worry about this and can just use /Volumes/PPCVolumeName/private/var/log or whatever. Usually one of the first things I do after setting up a system for the first time is to rename the internal boot device so I don't have to worry about what someone else's Macintosh HD is mounted as (it'll always be /Volumes/Macintosh HD/ on my systems, since they don't contain a Macintosh HD volume).

Your system won't try to boot off the HD unless you hold down option at startup, and even then since it's from your G4 or G5 it's not going to be an Intel build of 10.5 so it's not going to see the HD as a valid boot device on an Intel Mac. By default it will use whatever disk/partition was specified in Startup Disk.


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 6:54 pm 
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@MB:

Thanks for the details . . . I am going to try that Finder method . . . I also try to rename HD's as part of my usual multi-boot set up . . . so that part should work out. I definitely know that Intel OS isn't going to boot PPC . . . possibly VB could handle booting that system??

Anyway, it'll prolly be tomorrow before I get back to trying to fire the HD up and look around for a hidden file . . . .

e.e.p.


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 8:42 pm 
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V... B? Virtual Busta Rhymes?


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 9:09 pm 
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VirtualBux . . . aka bitcoin . . . . :? :roll: :roll: :coffee:


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