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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:22 am 
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BDAqua wrote:


Aha . . . yeah, I'm thinking that none of the Chinese options were showing or mentioning the external power source . . . in the photo(s) or in the item name . . . seems like some of the newegg options have the power box, and others don't . . . no free lunch . . . get what you pay for one way or another . . . appreciate the extra links . . . a few more bucks, but prolly will work, and get here sooner . . . .

Seems like the best option, as the "chime" is fleeting at best . . . I guess the only thing better would be if the adaptor went to usb 3.0?? as the MacPro has some 3.0 ports . . . . Back atcha with the update . . . .

e


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:59 am 
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Most USB3 SATA/PATA adapters will not have a PSU because USB3 provides 900 mA compared to USB2's 500 mA, but still too wimpy for old drives that use 1,500 to 2,500 mA to start up!


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:06 am 
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https://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Description=sata%20pata%20usb%20adapter%20cable&Submit=ENE

Looking at the newegg options, not sure about which manufacturers are "better" . . . I usually try for the "middle" number . . . rather than the lowest or highest . . . in this case the "THZY" option would be "middling" choice??? at $8.99? Has the power source and so forth? It's not going to get professional use, but I do have an older ext HD that the power switch "died" on, so being able to access data on it could be useful; i.e., I don't want a "one use vehicle" choice . . . . Have to rifle thru the Amazon options . . . but, rather go with a non-Amazon option if reasonable . . . just because.

e.e.p.

[edit: nope that didn't seem to work at showing the three options that I had loaded in the page . . . no worries; day or so I'll pull the trigger on it.]


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:44 am 
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I the to even mention Amazon, but what ya gonna do?

This one looks good...

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product. ... -_-Product

Not shipped by amazon...

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product. ... -_-Product

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product. ... -_-Product


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:41 pm 
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Thanks, looks like the newegg options are shipping from china, but Amazon could get me "one day" shipping . . . ?? Are the chinese products flown here? Can't understand how they can get these items here for so cheap . . . newegg items are more, but, still shipping or flying from china??


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:56 pm 
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I think they're likely all made in one place & if you order enough you get a big discount & choice of Manufacturer stamped on it.

I have no idea how they can ship them for free or even cheaply... I think some people have a stock of them here & are probably just "agents".

I doubt the Next Day ones are coming from China directly, air freight is pretty expensive from Asia to USA.

Fastest I could get live fish shipped from Asia to Seattle was 48-72 hours, of course the trip didn't take that long, but with Customs on both ends & people handling fright paid by the hour...


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:31 pm 
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With NewEgg I always filter my search results using "Sold by:" "Newegg" option. The third party stuff ships from who knows where and aren't always the greatest quality.

I have one of these. Works well:
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product. ... 6812400416

NewEgg's part numbers usually (but not always) start with N. They have another part numbering system that I see on NewEggBusiness that sometimes bleeds over into NewEgg which have a three of four groups letters separated by dashes.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:03 pm 
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@MB:

I see that this part is usb 3, but, then the price jumps up substantially . . . . Obviously if I was trying to move GB's of data then the usb 3 would be the best choice . . . but, I'm aware of the problems of going low ball as far as getting something that actually works . . . . Looks like the Amazon choice is $10 . . . plus shipping . . . v the $33 . . . plus shipping??

When I get a moment I'm going to test the reboot with FW options a few times . . . before a final final decision . . . . Not exactly crawling with dollars . . . it all hurts . . . . :bonk:


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:14 pm 
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I'd rather pay a little more for a part that I know is going to work than try to cut corners and end up with something that has issues or doesn't work at all.

Here's the USB 2.0 version of it:
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product. ... 6812200155

You can always check to see what USB2SATAIDE or USB3SATAIDE are going for on Amazon or elsewhere. As I said, I have that exact USB 3 part so I know it works. My trashcan has contained many others that were cheaper. I have some Rosewill adapters too but they've been discontinued for a long, long time now.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:02 pm 
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Thanks, the usb 2 is a tad cheaper . . . and, right, as a former "tool-aholic" I know the importance of "good tools" . . . but, also we had the "disposable tool" concept . . . which we knew we were going to trash while using it . . . because to buy the good tool was too expensive to waste on the abuse it was about to receive . . . .

I just don't have enough time in on messing with computers to know which is which, which would be a "go to" money saver, worth spending good money on . . . and those which are rarely needed . . . and so "cheaper" is better . . . .

e.e.p.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:54 pm 
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These adapters are pretty useful for hooking up drives in a pinch. Say you want to move from one drive to another, or hook up an old drive and get data off of it, etc. then you can just use the adapter to do it instead of going through contortions. They've mostly been supplanted by SATA docking stations but they won't work for IDE drives. So though you may not see a use for it beyond the present, you may end up finding a use later.

My big problem with the cheap adapters is that they would go offline in the middle of the data transfer. They work for small transfers of a few GB but once you get much more than that they would go offline or reset. I blamed the drives at first but the Rosewill adapters were under $20, under $15 on sale, and once I got them those drives were perfectly fine, so into the trashcan the cheap adapter went.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:26 pm 
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BDAqua wrote:
I think they're likely all made in one place & if you order enough you get a big discount & choice of Manufacturer stamped on it.

I have no idea how they can ship them for free or even cheaply... I think some people have a stock of them here & are probably just "agents".

I doubt the Next Day ones are coming from China directly, air freight is pretty expensive from Asia to USA.

Fastest I could get live fish shipped from Asia to Seattle was 48-72 hours, of course the trip didn't take that long, but with Customs on both ends & people handling fright paid by the hour...

I don't know about newegg but noticed here the free shipping seemed to occur when eBay changed their vendor charges to 10% of final price including shipping. That was a while ago but it altered the pricing model. If the cost of selling had 10% on top of the shipping, some thought why not just include shipping in the price because it now incurrs an extra charge anyway.

The price would include the shipping cost, but Free Shipping also sounds good. I am very attracted to clicking on buy when there is no additional shipping charge though it takes longer to arrive. But only for dry goods, not live fish.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:23 pm 
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When eBay changed to charge fees based on the cost of the item, not including shipping, shipping charges suddenly ballooned because that's where unscrupulous sellers could pad their profit margin without having to pay anything on that part to eBay. Given the abuses (I once bought something from someone who redirected an item being delivered to them to my address, thereby avoiding any additional shipping costs - and I paid through the nose for shipping in the auction since it was a bulky oversize/overweight item) it was only a matter of time until that system was revised.

Personally I always look at the total of the item including shipping. If I can get an item for less if I pay shipping, I'm certainly not going to pay more overall to get something shipped "free." I had a friend who only wanted to buy stuff if it had free shipping and sometimes he paid through the nose for it.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:14 pm 
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Yep . . . shipping is a cost . . . and in the old days it was possible to find similar items at a local computer store . . . but these days they have gone to online only . . . .

So, possibly I'll be back to having some time to mess with the G4 on Friday . . . hoping to get it booted into Target and see if connecting by FW gets it done.

But, that attempt has previously failed a couple of times, so that would take me back to these "usbidesata" items . . . obviously in terms of the most "versatility" and capacity the usb3 newegg topdawg item might be the choice . . . I couldn't see if that item had an external power source?? which for my new/old ide HD for the G4, I would want to have a power boost from "outside" . . . ???

If all I'm wanting to do is move the "var" log over, then perhaps the usb2 item would be fine, as the var log is usually, what, 1 GB??? I know it is "large" as far as files go . . . but, not many, many GBs . . . . But, if it turns out that the machine is toast, then I might want to be able to move the data on the HD to some other drive, which would mean numbers of GBs . . . at which point the usb3 item would be worth the extra bucks . . . the item that @MB linked; but, from my memory of the photos it didn't seem to show if there was an external power plug????

e.e.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:31 pm 
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Package contents from MB's USB# link...

1 x USB 3.0 to SATA/IDE converter
1 x SATA Cable
3 x AC Power Cord (NA/UK/EU)
1 x Power Supply

1 x Instruction Manual


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:38 pm 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
When eBay changed to charge fees based on the cost of the item, not including shipping, shipping charges suddenly ballooned because that's where unscrupulous sellers could pad their profit margin without having to pay anything on that part to eBay.

Ah, was that the back story. I'm glad that old trick of padding the profit margin by inflating shipping costs is gone. I buy some small electrical things on eBay that are cheaper than in the local stores.
BNC to RCA connectors $4.95 for a pack of 10. I only wanted 2, but in the shop they cost that much each, and other such stuff all free shipping. I know retail stores have higher overheads but some prices they charge are ripoffs. eBay is a great benefit even though it is a mystery how stuff can come all the way down from China for next to nothing.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:50 pm 
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BDAqua wrote:
Package contents from MB's USB# link...

1 x USB 3.0 to SATA/IDE converter
1 x SATA Cable
3 x AC Power Cord (NA/UK/EU)
1 x Power Supply

1 x Instruction Manual


Thanks . . . I guess that means the data was plainly there to be read . . . and glad that an instruction manual is offered . . . as mentioned previously I sometimes follow my competing construction dudes method of not reading the instructions until after the installation has been done the first or second time . . . or third . . . .

I was basing my question upon yr prior post that said something like, the "usb3 bus has 900mA, so often the adaptors don't have an ext power source, but the old HD's need 1500mA to jump start . . ." so that made me question whether that linked usb3 item had an ext power source . . . since I have the G4 olde ide int HD ???

e.e.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:57 pm 
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Apparently this one does. :)

Do you remember when you could get full specs, price, & everything else on one simple page!? :whip:


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:30 am 
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roam wrote:
Ah, was that the back story. I'm glad that old trick of padding the profit margin by inflating shipping costs is gone. I buy some small electrical things on eBay that are cheaper than in the local stores.
BNC to RCA connectors $4.95 for a pack of 10. I only wanted 2, but in the shop they cost that much each, and other such stuff all free shipping. I know retail stores have higher overheads but some prices they charge are ripoffs. eBay is a great benefit even though it is a mystery how stuff can come all the way down from China for next to nothing.

Well, part of the ripoff is that they sell very, very few of these things so they have stock sitting around literally forever, which they pay for by raising prices on otherwise cheap items. The raise in price leads to fewer sales, and so the death spiral goes. I call it the Radio Shack effect.


BTW, on topic, the reason those parts have a separate power supply are because they support both SATA & IDE. The USB 3 devices w/o a discrete power supply only support SATA. See, there's a method to their madness.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:53 am 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
BTW, on topic, the reason those parts have a separate power supply are because they support both SATA & IDE. The USB 3 devices w/o a discrete power supply only support SATA. See, there's a method to their madness.


OK, thanks for that, so if IDE is mentioned there should prolly be some ext power offering . . . got it, many thanks.

e.e.p


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:33 am 
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Looks like I'm having to accept "failure" on the FW/target mode approach . . . restarting multiple times this am with MBPro booted in 10.6 connected to PowerMac . . . out of maybe 20 boots the chime sounded twice and the computer ran for as long as I let it (no crash) . . . . But, seems like holding the "T" key, or as previously the PRAM or open firmware key selections . . . none of that seems to do anything.

Just for review, as I have done the T mode numerous times in the past, I should be seeing the "FW" icon mounted on the, in this case, MBPro desktop if and when the PowerMac has booted into Target mode . . . and that shouldn't matter if the machine is a G4 in Target mounting on the MBPro desktop, right??? The next step might be if it mounted then whether intel OSX could "open" a file . . . but the icon should at least show up if all is well???

Only other option, other than now ordering the ext HD adaptor/booerupper/thingie . . . would be to try to use the old G4 iBook and connect that to PM via FW . . . but, I'm sort of thinking it would be a "waste" of time/energy . . . in that it seems like possibly the usb card or port isn't working, so the usb keyboard isn't registering the "T" or any of the other key inputs?? And/or the FW port isn't registering either????

But, reason for post, would it have to be G4 to G4 via FW for a Target mode interconnectivity effort to be successfully completed??? So far hooking to the MPro, and the MBPro have not worked to show an FW icon on the desktop of either of those computers . . . . Time for the adaptor???

TIA

e.e.p


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:07 am 
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G4 to G4 or Intel shouldn't matter, on the MB P did you check Disk Utility to see if the G4's drive shows up?

Oh, is the G4's Dive on IDE 0,0 bus?


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:48 am 
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BDAqua wrote:
G4 to G4 or Intel shouldn't matter, on the MB P did you check Disk Utility to see if the G4's drive shows up?

Oh, is the G4's Dive on IDE 0,0 bus?


Thanks . . . you might have mentioned this "check DU" before . . . but, no, I didn't . . . . I have prefs set to "show connected drives" . . . and if I connect the sole remaining ext HD to the computer by FW to Back up the systems . . . all those partitions show up on the desktop as "FW" icons. In this case, that isn't happening . . . in the two computers. I'm more or less convinced that the G4 either isn't booting to T mode and/or the keyboard inputs aren't working . . . .

But, perhaps worth trying again and checking DU for anything reported there . . . I'm sort of thinking that the power button is working to "boot" the PM . . . but int/ext communications aren't being received?????

e


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:17 am 
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If the G4 is put into target disk mode a firewire icon should appear on its screen.

If that icon doesn't appear then it's unlikely the G4 is in TDM and it's probably just frozen at an earlier point in the startup/initialization process.

Have you tried pulling all but 1 DIMM from the system and see if the situation changes? If its still dead try one of the other DIMMs in its place. Sorry if you mentioned it, functioning on 1 hour of sleep right now...


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:38 am 
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MB, on the FW symbol... except sometimes if the Video card or monitor is not working?


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