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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:55 pm 
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Folks:

Rainy day in LA . . . tried to install a couple packages in 10.5 using Software Updater . . . it shows 4 packages as available; Java for MacOS X 10.5 update 5; Safari 5.0.6; Security Update 2011-004; and, iTunes 10.6.3.

Some of these packages I tried previously to use SU to install and the process "failed" after the first "restart." I was trying again today to see if there was any difference; I tried to install the Java, which showed "69% already downloaded" and the Safari . . . . On restart the blue cig bar went through to "validate packages" . . . and then as before, errored out with "package contents can't be validated." ??? These are packages that SU selected as "available" and then downloaded them . . . probably from Apple Downloads . . . but, then, they fail???

So, not having Safari isn't too critical, and same for iTunes . . . but I right-clicked on "Java" && the "Security Update" and found the Apple page to download the Security Update . . . directly?? . . . but, fairly slow internet connection so I didn't just "grab" it at 246 MB size . . . don't know how much I really need to have it . . . . But, perhaps Java is fairly handy to have?? Apple Downloads doesn't show Java for 10.5 Update 5 . . . they have "Update 10" . . . is this one of those things where in order to install 10 I have to have 5??? first?? Seems like I remember using SU to install upgrades and it would show only the first item in the progression, which would need to be installed, then running SU would, e.g., show 6 . . . and so forth . . . . Or, I could install 10 and be done with it??

Thanks kindly,

e..


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:16 pm 
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Unless you're running Java apps, you do not need Java updates**. Do note that Java and the similarly and confusingly named Javascript are completely different beasts. The former is standalone, and the latter is used in web applications.

That said, you should still keep it up to date because you can't uninstall Java 6, which is what's included prior to Lion. Apple does still maintain Java 6 so you're good on that front if you keep it updated. This article explains a bit more on the Java 6 vs. 7 issue and whether or not you need it, why you should keep it updated, and why you shouldn't delete any of it once installed.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:42 pm 
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@ST:

Appreciate the reply . . . I guess that was my thought, that "Java" relates to "javascript" . . . which we do use for browsers??? But, I don't know if this is "Java 6" or what, it says "Java for 10.5 Update 5" . . . and that update isn't working to install . . . and, then online, option for "Java 10.5 Update 10" . . . ???

But, from what you are saying, an application I opened ***might*** tell me, "We need Java"??? Or, total other option, possibility of going to Adobe??? And trying for Java there??? Probably it isn't "needed" is my take home message???

e....


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:52 pm 
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Java 6 is not available for 10.5.x, PPC Macs, or 32 bit Intel Macs.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:48 pm 
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...and you probably already have Java installed (if you do need it), and SU is offering an update for it. Though that update would have had more relevance at the time 2011? than now.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:39 pm 
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Javascript and Java share nothing besides the word Java. One is a scripting language built into your web browser, each browser has its own engine. The other is a programming language that requires a whole realtime environment to exist on your system for programs to run in.

You will want to disable the Java web plug-in or you're in for a world of hurt (since an app written in Java is capable of running on any computer that has Java installed, regardless of the type of CPU the computer is using). Otherwise you can ignore it, although there's nothing wrong with attempting to update it, not to mention all the other software that's installed on the system. It's all outdated, so you shouldn't connect any of the software included in OS X (e.g. Mail, Safari, etc.) to the internet, but at least you won't encounter as many bugs.

It certainly sounds like there's either a disk, memory, or CPU related problem in your system, assuming the network card isn't simply bad. You can verify the last by downloading one of the installers on another computer and then sneakernetting it over to the original system via a flash drive.

Apple does have a weird order for Java updates on 10.5, and you have to install them in order. You can try downloading and installing Update 10, but it may kick back an error saying you need to install another update before you can install 10. I recall hitting Software Update several times after installing 10.5 before it reported no further updates were available. And I just did it a year or so ago too, so its slightly less foggy than most of my PPC knowledge.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:51 pm 
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Appreciate all the replies . . . I had finished writing this before seeing MB's latest post, and he answered my question about 10; but since I already hit "send" before I saw his post, I'll hit "send" again and we can all know it's been covered . . . . Thx Y'all.

I guess that since the techno wave has long ago passed over 10.5 leaving it twisting in the "olde OS" breeze . . . none of these updates is really needed or worth the time spent . . . I was again thinking about MB's comment that 10.5 "has bugs" so the thought of how to fix them shows up when running SU.

But, still, my now semi-idle question about "Update 10" still remains on the choice of Java's . . . could "Update 10" be downloaded from Apple Downloads . . . and successfully installed (key point) . . . even though it's clear that "Java 10.5 Update 5" . . . is not installed???? Can I use hyper drive and just jump to 10? Or, the fact that "UPdate 5" is failing is the sign that no subsequent Updates will work????

I'm just trying to save the time it would take to download the probably larger than 161 MB file . . . to then have it "fail." :snail:

e...


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:04 pm 
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I'd give this a try..

https://support.apple.com/kb/dl1359?locale=en_US


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 7:57 am 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
It certainly sounds like there's either a disk, memory, or CPU related problem in your system, assuming the network card isn't simply bad. You can verify the last by downloading one of the installers on another computer and then sneakernetting it over to the original system via a flash drive.

Apple does have a weird order for Java updates on 10.5, and you have to install them in order. You can try downloading and installing Update 10, but it may kick back an error saying you need to install another update before you can install 10.


@MB:

Following up, it is possible there is some "cpu" problem, as BD has been helping me stay disciplined on exercising the new/old cpu with dnetc . . . for awhile . . . . I bumped it up to 1 GHZ from 800 . . . and in doing that had to move to Leopard, Tiger wouldn't install. But, using SU I got the 10.5.8 update to "go through" . . . it's these other items that seem to be stalling or failing.

And, no worries on it . . . the GUI more or less is working . . . lately had to FQ TFF a couple times, but otherwise fine. It's only running Applejack that the real weirdness starts to show . . . . I've run dnetc a few times lately . . . I'll try it a few more times and then see how Applejack runs, etc. The 1 GHz more or less gets stuff done relative to today's web sites . . . the seller said he had the cpu running on a Sawtooth at 1.4 GHz . . . maybe somewhere down the road I'll get it there . . . in the meanwhile things are a tad "glitchy" in the inner sanctum . . . .

e..


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:10 am 
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I have a sneaking suspicion this CPU had the same issue my 1.4Ghz CPU had, namely it's a 1.25Ghz CPU and after running for too long on old thermal paste the module was damaged by the overclock.

Another possibility in the overheating world is you have a bad connection between heatsink and CPU. There's a bit of an art in getting the CPU & heatsink surfaces perfectly clean of old material without scratching either one, then applying just the right amount of compound onto the CPU (a large blob, like Apple Geniuses are famous for applying, is too much - the heatsink floats on the blob and doesn't make contact with the CPU), then installing the heatsink straight down, not rocking or moving the CPU from side to side. Most newer CPUs have heat spreaders which turn this art into something more routine, since the heat spreader is large so not all of it has to make perfect contact with the heatsink, but 7455 CPUs like that one are old school.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2016 5:16 am 
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BDAqua wrote:
Java 6 is not available for 10.5.x, PPC Macs, or 32 bit Intel Macs.


From the article I linked above:

Quote:
Up through OS X 10.6, Snow Leopard*, Apple provided Java 6 pre-installed, and they still maintain it. The latest version is 1.6.0_43.


It's available via a software update, but only as a 64-bit runtime environment. Obviously it won't be offered for the 32-bit machines, but for all other 64-bit Intel machines capable of booting Leopard, it's there waiting for you to install and activate.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2016 7:42 am 
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Appreciate the follow-up(s) . . . well, there is "strangeness" involved with the cpu . . . and perhaps intermittently so; like the 10.5.8 upgrade install via SU seems to have gone well . . . but, not these other items . . . . And, when I got the cpu it was my maiden voyage, so I just installed it as sent . . . didn't take it apart and put new heat glue/goop . . . I was trying to reduce operator error . . . . But, this cpu has a stinking fan . . . so, I'm not exactly worried about heat . . . now running at 1 GHz . . . .

And, cool that Java should be there . . . for in my 32 bit world . . . a bridge too far . . . .

Lately I've had some time to run dnetc for a few hours . . . I'll check AJ sometime and see if things are more "normal." The focus lately has been to try to get the Yaboot.conf file back into order so that the linux side can again be accessed . . . might almost have it gronked . . . .

e...


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 4:52 pm 
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Lately I'm getting either an error from TFF "We can't update your browser because you don't have adequate privileges" . . . or, when I tried to drag the new TFF image into Applications and drop it, it says the same thing . . . "can't complete the transaction."

So, I "googled" it and found a conversation on Apple Discussions where a gent said, "If I trash TFF first I can install the upgrade." So, that's what I did. But, this is pointing to a "larger" problem . . . and the "memory" is sketchy on what I did to not be seen as "executive" admin of record . . . . Somewhere in the "disaster" of "educating" this new/old cpu, and the damage to various installed systems, I think what I had to do was a fresh install of 10.5 . . . and then I could use migration asst to move all my files over . . . but, in there was a "profile"??? as well?? Anyway, after that I had two "users" who were "admin" . . . and, I trashed one of the accounts (don't know which one) . . . but seems like the one I trashed was "super-admin"??? I set up the possibly "new" account as "admin" and passwords were the same . . . but on the log in page it shows "Johnny B Good's Computer (2)" . . . where before there was never any number after the "Computer" . . . .

Is there any way to get rid of that number, and/or be recognized as "super-admin" so that TFF will let me drag/drop the updates?? Or, too complicated . . . easier to just trash the old and then drop in the new? Obviously there isn't a whole lot of new software coming down the pike for 10.5, but . . . I feel like my OS should offer me "adequate privileges" . . . because, I'm its daddy . . . . :roll:

e...


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:27 pm 
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Sys Prefs>Sharing>Computer Name

Do a Get Info on the older TFF, does this admin user have rights?


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:03 am 
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BDAqua wrote:
Sys Prefs>Sharing>Computer Name

Do a Get Info on the older TFF, does this admin user have rights?


Great, thanks for the details; amazing after all these years of using OSX and still lots to learn . . . . So, cool, I changed the computer name, superficial and the secret CLI name . . . and Get info was "interesting" in that "me" was not shown at all . . . just another user name I have for diagnostic purposes . . . so, I added myself, and while I was at it, gave myself "Read & Write" privi's . . . ???? No error window opened saying, "You can't do that . . . ." ???? I'll check on my work later, when I try for a TFF update . . . .


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:50 am 
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Great news! :)


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:00 am 
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BDAqua wrote:
Great news! :)


Yes, but "oddly" when I tried to update TFF later that day, even after logging out of my user account . . . trying the drag n drop next to the old TFF . . . the "replace" command was "declined" . . . . Trashing the old package, then dragging the new in, worked just fine.

So, good news is that the "(2)" is gone . . . but possibly I am still not the POTUS/commander-in-chief of this computer???? Or more realistically perhaps it's just that Cameron of TFF doesn't "recognize" me and my executive priv's for this computer??

Perhaps the next "fun thing" to try, would be later in the week try for Software Updater and see if any of the downloads "go through" . . . or, after several hours of downloading . . . "fail"????? :bonk: :classic-eek: :emphatic-eek:

e...


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:29 am 
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Do a Get Info on Applications folder, your Home Folder & such, do you have rights?

I presume this is a Migrated account?

PS. Congrats on your record dnetc dump!


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:56 am 
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BDAqua wrote:
Do a Get Info on Applications folder, your Home Folder & such, do you have rights?

I presume this is a Migrated account?

PS. Congrats on your record dnetc dump!


In Applications "admin" has Read & write . . . of which I have two users with "admin" privi, but my name account is not specifically mentioned . . . does that matter? In Home my name account is mentioned as R & W . . . . I haven't had this problem until the the latest round of TFF, the "38" series??? It's not a show stopper, but, main question is whether the SU failing to update is part of this issue, OR, just because Apple T'ain't supporting the old stuff . . . but, my install doesn't know that & keeps running SU like it will work . . . .

Thanks on the dnetc dump, a few more coming later today; ran it for a number of hours, trying to "move up" in the stats . . . going to get "exponential" in a tad bit . . . but, I thought at some point as work is "slow" at some point I might try for an "all day" run and get myself up in the thousands . . . of course the guys at the top of the 201 - 301 page are in the tens of thousands . . . . But, it does seem to be helping the behavior of the cpu/machine . . . and that is my main focus . . . . Might get into an '09 era MPro later this year, and then it might be easier to crank some stats with a faster cpu at the helm . . . . Takes a couple three hours to get to 24 stats and the auto-flush, etc.

e...


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:51 am 
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I don't think it would hurt to add your user to Applications & Apply to enclosed items.

The real advantage of a Mac Pro & dnetc is if it has a Graphic Card & OSX version that can use the OpenCL version or if Nvidia card another GPOU version, GPU can do 100 times more than GPU... well, maybe not hundreds, but way more, & be sure to use MacsFanControl to cool it extra amount. :)


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:01 pm 
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BDAqua wrote:
I don't think it would hurt to add your user to Applications & Apply to enclosed items.

The real advantage of a Mac Pro & dnetc is if it has a Graphic Card & OSX version that can use the OpenCL version or if Nvidia card another GPOU version, GPU can do 100 times more than GPU... well, maybe not hundreds, but way more, & be sure to use MacsFanControl to cool it extra amount. :)


Cool. Had the option to make "Me" the "owner" . . . && apply to enclosed . . . of Application folder . . . and I did the "apply to enclosed" for my Home folder . . . first one took a few minutes to "execute" . . . . Since I just did a TFF upgrade, it'll probably be awhile to test it out . . . of course I'll post back if there are "issues."

Thanks for the details on the GPU vs CPU??? I'm assuming . . . we'll see how the year stacks up . . . might be next year before I can start "hammering" the stats page . . . . : - )

e..


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 5:24 pm 
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The most important thing about dnetc is to get your G4's electrons all in a line! :P


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 7:25 am 
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BDAqua wrote:
The most important thing about dnetc is to get your G4's electrons all in a line! :P


Right; I think they were "out of line" when I first put the cpu in, then they got in a few lines, lines that went all over the place; now I think they are starting to agree that there should be one line, and are more or less complying . . . . Or, does a cpu send electrons through a number of lines, so each individual electron would then have to make a decision as to which is the "best line for me to follow"??? And that is what dnetc actually does for them and the greater machine--it helps build electron character, so they have the strength to make a line-following decision????

Maybe I should run dnetc on my personal processor . . . .

e....


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:37 am 
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CPU & rest of computer uses millions of lines, (paths), to do it's stuff, a few stray Electrons may or may not be caught by the HW/SW.

I'm not sure what it does on a scientific level really, I could guess of course, but I think my philosophical "Electron Etching" covers it pretty well, sort of like "breaking in" a rebuilt engine if you care... I think Electrons take the easiest path, not necessarily the best path in our view. :)


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