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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:01 pm 
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BDA, et al:

My wife more or less abandoned her PowerMac G4 450 MHz computer a few years ago and recently with the repeated KPs on my iMac I started wondering whether I could get 10.4.11 or Xubuntu 12.04 to run on it. Space is limited in my "room" so I didn't open it up and look inside, but today I powered it up to see how it would run. She has it running OS 9.0.4 for an old version of Photoshop, which she got from a graphics guy . . . I may have had her download the 9.2.2 update, it's just sitting on the desktop.

In 9 it boots up pretty fast, maybe faster than my iBook does running 10.4.11, it's got 1GB of RAM so that's twice the iBook . . . but, my question is if it's possible to still find HD's for it, so that I could install OSX and/or linux on the new drive, or even put an SSD in it, so that there would be the option of different systems. Right now the HD looks like it's a whopping 20.54 GB, but using OS9 it still has 15GB available--probably be hard to add OSX to it and do anything?? Might be able to fit linux in. But, in trying to boot from a DVD from a year or so back, it wasn't showing up on the desktop and wouldn't boot with the C key. However there was a DVD in it from '08 that did show up?? Didn't get that one, so it perhaps puts a question mark on a linux install?

Then, if the RAM could be pushed beyond 1GB, not too important . . . but, never enough RAM these days. Overall it seems OK, nice machine, the display is a CRT that keeps "popping" the GUI, seemed to settle down once it was warmed up . . . would think about a new screen, but would anything work with 9 these days or doesn't matter? I don't do a whole lot of processor intense stuff, except check emails and now breeze through FB . . . I'm in my Ubuntu MATE PPC partition on my iBook to post this and the fan is blowing its top to keep up with the Smilies . . . . But over in 10.4.11 it was the spinning beachball as well . . . might be the Power Mac with 1 GB RAM could be a tad quieter??

I know from a practical viewpoint it's throwing good money after bad, but, it certainly would be cheaper than a new Mac . . . something to futz around with . . . it would be cool if an option for extra HD would still be around, I think it has 3 HD slots??? Has the ATI Rage graphics . . . perhaps no wifi card . . . . Thumb's Up or Down??

e.e.p.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:27 pm 
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I have a G4/450/DA running 10.4.11 & even 10.5.8, 10.4.11 is faster, 10.5.8 is "useable".

You can find IDE drives, but most are used, SATA drives may work with an IDE->SATA adapter.

SSDs...

http://eshop.macsales.com/MyOWC/Upgrade ... rnal+Drive

1 GB is your RAM Limit. :)


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:40 pm 
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BDAqua wrote:
I have a G4/450/DA running 10.4.11 & even 10.5.8, 10.4.11 is faster, 10.5.8 is "useable".

You can find IDE drives, but most are used, SATA drives may work with an IDE->SATA adapter.

SSDs...

http://eshop.macsales.com/MyOWC/Upgrade ... rnal+Drive

1 GB is your RAM Limit. :)


BD:

Thanks again, figured that you would be the guy who would know, but, indeed it seems like a nice machine, and I did see on the Apple requirements that it meets 10.4.11 specs -- I have the black install disk for Tiger, still don't have leopard. But, from what you are saying, the SSD option would likely be the only new drive option, and that could possibly just slide or plug in . . . without needing too much effort software or hardware wise? It said IDE/SATA on the link, would I still need whatever that "adaptor" is? Or, better to find a used SATA drive for better value and easy install? I've never fiddled with adding drives before, I know that the PowerMac has "slots" for extra drives, but, it was her computer so she wouldn't let me near it before . . . . : - )

e.e.p


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:51 pm 
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I believe those "Legacy" SSDs come with the IDE adapter, but...

Oh wait, under includes at the bottom of that link it says...


Includes

OWC Mercury Electra™ 3G SSD
OWC 2.5" to 3.5" Drive Adapter Bracket Tray
SATA to IDE adapter

So, mostly plug 'n play. :)

As far as 10.5.x on that Mac...

There are workarounds if the 867MHz CPU is the only hangup...

http://sourceforge.net/projects/leopardassist/

http://lowendmac.com/osx/leopard/unsupported.html


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 5:28 pm 
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BD:

Precerate the follow up . . . so great . . . something is included that lets it "adapt" . . . . On the leopard assist, I did try that on my 800 MHz iMac using a friend's 10.5 disk, but it failed . . . several times. They were the grey disks, but one was for laptop and another for desktop, but, perhaps it was for "powermac" and not "iMac"?? So, might be worth fiddling with at some point . . . been playing with linux as a way to keep my PPC stuff going, but much of the linux world has also "moved on" and is offering less support for PPC. But, even if it gets me down the road for a year or two that would be OK.

What about choices for display? Anything will run? The latest LED screens will hook up and go? Or, needs a certain kind of plug that only Apple had . . . and nothing else will do? I'm fairly certain the CRT uses more juice, but also it has some weird "hiccup" where the display image "pops" . . . along with a noise like a "tube" is having a freak out . . . . It's "working" but a tad disconcerting . . . .

e.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 5:37 pm 
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Gray Discs are Machine specific, I think all10.5 Gray Discs are IntelMac only.

What Video card does it have? VGA, DVI, or ADC connections?

Some of the new Wide Short Screen resolutions won't work with older Graphic cards.

Power Mac G4: Display Compatibility...

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1825

I'd blow the dust out of that CRT pronto.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 6:05 pm 
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Dust? You think there is dust in there? We don't have no stinkin' dust in LA . . . . OK, well that would be another day, to find the time to figure out how to open the display and then get a dust magnet or whatever . . .

It's the "AGP graphics" model if that says anything, or "ATI Rage 128 Ps"??? I'll have to pull the unit out and take a look at the plug type, also on another day . . . house built in the 30's with just a few plugs here and there, lighting at night is sub par for viewing the minutia . . . . I'll have to get back to you, maybe tomorrow or maybe later. But, I'll take a look at your link and see what it tells me . . . might be easiest if cleaning dust out was all that is needed, but I think this was something that was happening a long while back? Don't know the details as it tweren't mine back then, or now . . . .

e.e.p.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 8:28 pm 
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OK, but it sounds like electrostatic dust occasionally causing this to me, be careful, 25,000 volts are around there, & I doubt a vacuum is a good idea or useful, use a 100psi blast of air everywhere in there. :)


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 9:39 pm 
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AFAIK that system can use 2 GB RAM, so long as you use the correct type.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 9:50 pm 
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Thanks Tia, you are correct! :)

http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/p ... 4_450.html

4 of the 512 MB sticks would give 2 GB..

http://eshop.macsales.com/MyOWC/Upgrade ... ype=Memory


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 9:52 pm 
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So long as you can match up one of the connections on the back of the video card to the input on the display, most displays will work with it. I say most because 1080p displays run via an HDMI<->DVI cable will unfortunately run at a max resolution of 1080i due to a quirk. In theory software should let you force 1080p mode, but ideally you can either run at 720p or just hook it up via VGA.

I've had very good luck with the version of this adapter that supports "optical" drives, even with non-optical drives.

However the IDE ports are limited to 137GB.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 10:02 pm 
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Can be overcome though…

http://www.speedtools.com/STATA.html


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:19 pm 
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It can, but for the boot media that's awfully dicey. Attempting to run a disk repair off an install DVD can create misery.

They still make 160GB SATA disks. It gives you that last "17GB" of space and no worry about what media you're booting from.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:08 am 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
So long as you can match up one of the connections on the back of the video card to the input on the display, most displays will work with it. I say most because 1080p displays run via an HDMI<->DVI cable will unfortunately run at a max resolution of 1080i due to a quirk. In theory software should let you force 1080p mode, but ideally you can either run at 720p or just hook it up via VGA.

I've had very good luck with the version of this adapter that supports "optical" drives, even with non-optical drives.

However the IDE ports are limited to 137GB.


SwitchRes and SwitchResX (depending on your OS) should let you overcome that limitation.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:21 am 
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Your PowerMac G4 is still running? Apple might want to have a look at that to recalibrate their obsolescence meter. Perhaps the original springs were made too strong. :o

Joking aside, I stilll have an old iBook G4 with 10.3 that runs some classic software occasionally. It is good to have some legacy hardware around to still make use of old content.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:43 am 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
It can, but for the boot media that's awfully dicey. Attempting to run a disk repair off an install DVD can create misery.

They still make 160GB SATA disks. It gives you that last "17GB" of space and no worry about what media you're booting from.


Folks, Squishy T, et al:

Thanks for more details. it seems like from the further conversation that it could be a "viable" project that wouldn't require "too much" money to get it a tad closer to the present?? It's good to know that 2 GB RAM could be done, not the first order of business though; either figuring out which HD to get and start there, so it seems like MB is saying that with his linked IDE to SATA adapter a 160 GB HDD?? [regular non SSD] type drive could be used? And, that would be cheaper than SSD?

And then, secondly look at the display choices . . . but I'm still wondering why the recent DVDs were not mounted and wouldn't boot with the C key? Is that due to 9.0.4 not "recognizing" a certain type of burn, but could read from '08 burn? And so would installing OSX 10.4 change that? Or, is this a glitchy optical drive? Certainly don't want to go nutz on the refurb, but just as a beginning step in fiddling with the hardware, for educational benefits . . . a maiden voyage of sorts for me . . . .

e.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:10 am 
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There were Firmware updates needed to install 10.4 or greater, sadly Apple closed the links I have pointing to them, OS9 was needed to install them. :(

These are the ones I have...

PB G4 DVDROM Update.smi
BluetoothFWUpdate1.2.dmg
BluetoothFWUpdater.dmg
DVD-ROM Firmware.smi
G4 FirmwareUpdate 2.4.smi
G4 FW Update 4.2.8.smi
G5FirmwareUpdate.dmg
G5FWUpdater.dmg
iMacSuperDriveUpdate.dmg
PBook FWUpdate 2.7.smi
PBook FWUpdate 4.1.8.smi
PBook_FWUpdate_4.2.9.smi
PMG5UniFWU5.1.5f2.dmg
Power Mac G4 ROM 1.8.1.smi
PowerMacG4 AGP Update.smi
PowerMacG4 CDRW FW Update.smi
PowerMacSuperDriveUpdt.dmg

On the 10.5 Install Discs, I'm fairly certain all Gray ones were IntelMac only.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:27 am 
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BD:

Ah, they may have been done, and the 9.2.2 update is on the HD, but I think she didn't do it because it would have aced the Photoshop version, very pricey at the time . . . . But, if they haven't been done, are you saying if there is "software update" in 9, that if it's run, nothing will happen from the Apple side? Or, it could happen? Is there a way to check to see? I guess I could put the 10.4 install disk in and see if it "gets approval for install" . . . but I was thinking about preserving the 9 disk and starting fresh on a new HD. It's sort of less attractive using just 9, but I think Ten4Fox has a version for 9 . . . but, it's a bit cumbersome in that 2D GUI . . . I do like the goofy sounds though . . . .

e.e.p.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:38 am 
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I don't know if SWUPD in 9 will find the updates or not, the links for direct downloads on Apple Support are now dead, they were...

Apple firmware updates...

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1395

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1395?viewlocale=en_US

http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1126?viewlocale=en_US

iMac 4.1.9...

http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1283

G4 only...
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=120068

What does System Report show for Firmware installed?

I think Classilla is the latest browser for 10.9.x


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:01 pm 
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BDAqua wrote:
I don't know if SWUPD in 9 will find the updates or not, the links for direct downloads on Apple Support are now dead, they were...

What does System Report show for Firmware installed?


BD:

I just looked through the computer looking for "System Report" . . . no soap . . . do you mean Apple System Profiler? And then "Extensions"?? Did not see the superdrive update listed anywhere, I ran a few searches through Sherlock2 "nothing found" . . . I remember getting the "iMacSuperdrive" update way back when . . . and the breathless excitement I went through doing that . . . don't know if that was done on this PM.

It's not connected to the internet right now, it was on dial up and now that room is on wifi, but perhaps no card. I'll have to move it to plug it into ethernet to run Software Update and see what happens . . . take a couple few days to get the time to make a place for it.

What's a bit weird is that 9.2.2 seems to be in the "previous system folder" . . . it shows up, but not in "startup disk" selections . . . it boots to 9.0.4 . . . . But, any other thoughts on how to find firmware updates or find the latest firmware installed?

e.e.p.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:10 pm 
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Firmware update for this G4: http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1126

Found by googling "Power Mac G4 Firmware Update 4.2.8". First link. Enjoy. :)

Edit: Obviously I'm REALLY good at seeing BDA has already put up the link....yes, I'm doing very well at that today. Sigh.

/goes back to corner and curls up into a ball

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 7:05 pm 
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@ST:

Thanks for the thought . . . right now I still don't know if the PM is "up to date" or not, but, in checking that link I found
Quote:
he Power Mac G4 Firmware Update 4.2.8 will run only on Power Mac G4 and Macintosh Server G4 models with AGP graphics running Mac OS 9.1 or later from a local hard disk.


Right now it seems to be running 9.0.4 . . . with 9.2.2 sitting in a folder, but not "installed"??? So 4.2.8 would not be in effect in 9.0.4 . . ..

e.e.p.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 7:34 pm 
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I'm fairly certain the 9.2.2 update only installs on 9.1 and up. That may be why it's still sitting in that folder.

You can go through a manual process to update 9.0 to 9.1 and then from there to 9.2, it's not all that difficult beyond finding the files on Apple's servers.

Squishy Tia wrote:
SwitchRes and SwitchResX (depending on your OS) should let you overcome that limitation.
Indeed, that's the software I was referring to. I'm not certain if he wants to belly up for a license though, especially if the problem can be overcome by simply switching from DVI to VGA. Also you will likely need to email the author to provide a download link, or at least I did... though he did say that a link to the latest PPC release wasn't on the website. Probably too many idiots downloaded it by mistake.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:00 pm 
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Quote:
do you mean Apple System Profiler

Likely, I think it may report Firmware version somewhere.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:11 pm 
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It's on his website. It's in Downloads > Older Versions > 4.3.6

This is the last version supporting PPC in OS X. For OS 9 I believe SW 2.5.x is the latest he can use. Link to the OS 9 version is both in the Older Versions popup on the Download page or here. That version is no longer shareware so he can run it in OS 9 on that machine if he wants.

He can also download the trial version, which has full functionality and see if it will let him use 1080p on DVI. Switching to VGA introduces blurriness due to the RAMDAC timing issues, so if he can remain on DVI that is preferrable.

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