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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:21 am 
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Sometimes "newer" isn't always "better" . . . nothing like an old lithographic print . . . might be "great" to try to bring that technology over to cpu manufacturing . . . ??? Sometimes cheap is good--sometimes.

Messing around with replacing HDs with SSDs and the MB et al recommend for the Samsung EVO SSD for my 09 C2D MBPro has made that computer almost as zippy as my '12 MP with the olde i7 chip . . . and the Mercury SSD. Might be "interesting" to try to find an SSD for the G3 iBook and see if it brings it back into play time ???


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:33 am 
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PATA SSDs are one of the few instances I actually think OWC is a good option, because there are so few other good options available (short of using a SATA/PATA adapter, which isn't a particularly great idea for an ssd - trim requires ahci, ahci means sata).


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:52 am 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
PATA SSDs are one of the few instances I actually think OWC is a good option, because there are so few other good options available (short of using a SATA/PATA adapter, which isn't a particularly great idea for an ssd - trim requires ahci, ahci means sata).


@MB:

Thanks for the follow up . . . after I posted that I was thinking, "why would I try to resurrect a G3, when the G4 iBook I have might be able to run Leopard . . . and that also needs an HD upgrade . . . ???? And, that would likely have more or less the same connectors . . . i.e., non-SATA???

Problem with PPC now is that even linux has "dropped support" . . . not that the "support" was super great before, but at least you could get something to run and have security upgrades for PPC stuff . . . .

Really makes more sense to try to get the Sawtooth power supply thingie figured out and see if I can get the PowerMac back from **Zombie Village** . . . and on track for **Knowledge City** for another brief spasm of time . . . .

eep


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:08 pm 
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I converted my QuickSilver to a Digital Audio because the parts for DA were cheaper than QS parts and easier to find.

I forget what I had to do for the motherboard standoffs though. Jumping from Sawtooth to DA would probably be a bit more problematic because QS was the next generation after DA whereas Sawtooth was... 2? 3?... generations before DA. And I'm not sure how easy it is to find DA parts now.

Downside is DA is 133Mhz and Sawtooth is 100Mhz so PC133 RAM can move over but PC100 RAM won't. I think the video cards are generally okay moving forward. DA to QS was basically a no brainer because they're both PC133 boards.

The big thing is when you change motherboards you either have to change the power supply or you have to adapt it to the new pinout. I'd almost say buy a DA power supply at this point and rewire an ATX extension cable to fit the Sawtooth board just in case you have to replace the board. But without looking for DA parts its hard to say if that makes any sense.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:33 pm 
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Thanks for the reminder MB.

You can convert an ATX PSU for use on a G4...

http://atxg4.com/sawtooth.html


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:07 pm 
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My only concern is that the ATX spec has changed a lot since that was written. I'm not sure if the ATX pinout is still valid for a current ATX supply.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:20 pm 
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BDAqua wrote:
Thanks for the reminder MB.

You can convert an ATX PSU for use on a G4...

http://atxg4.com/sawtooth.html


MonkeyBoy wrote:
My only concern is that the ATX spec has changed a lot since that was written. I'm not sure if the ATX pinout is still valid for a current ATX supply.


Gents:

Thanks for these posts and the prior one explaining the "DA" stuff . . . I think one of you posted this "atxg4" link before, and it looks fraught with "technicalities" that would require actual technical skill or at least "thought" . . . followed by ****soldering**** . . . all pretty sceery stuff . . . very screey stuff . . . . I prefer "plug n play" but I guess the problem would be that even if I could find a power supply "for the Sawtooth" . . . it would probably be . . . tired . . . . Pretty sure I did the PC133 RAM when I did the RAM, based upon your guidances . . . . Of course we don't know whether it is the power supply that is the problem . . . we just found out that it wasn't the video card . . . as that was just upgraded and failed to fix the "sometimes she boots and sometimes she don't" issue . . . .

Have a fair number of plates up in the air, each of them requires . . . research . . . learning skills . . . and experimentation and/or flushing dollars to get to the next plate, etc. Have to find a spare moment and see if it's rated "easy" to convert a power supply and cable for the G4 . . . .

eep


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:51 pm 
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Most of the time if you use an ATX extension cable there's no soldering needed, you just have to move some pins around on the destination connector (that goes into the motherboard) so the appropriate pin from the power supply goes into the right spot on the motherboard. I ended up using a QS PSU with my DA board at one point and it wasn't too hard, I just needed a micro screwdriver set to push in the anchors on the pin before pulling them out before pushing it into the destination spot on the connector. They actually make tools that do this but you could get a micro set from a dollar store and it'd include a flathead small enough, whereas the proper tools are all sized to the size of the pins in the connector and each tool costs more than a buck.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:01 pm 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
Most of the time if you use an ATX extension cable there's no soldering needed, you just have to move some pins around on the destination connector (that goes into the motherboard) so the appropriate pin from the power supply goes into the right spot on the motherboard. I ended up using a QS PSU with my DA board at one point and it wasn't too hard, I just needed a micro screwdriver set to push in the anchors on the pin before pulling them out before pushing it into the destination spot on the connector. They actually make tools that do this but you could get a micro set from a dollar store and it'd include a flathead small enough, whereas the proper tools are all sized to the size of the pins in the connector and each tool costs more than a buck.


@MB: OK, that's very reassuring . . . no soldering . . . just special micro tools needed . . . . And the pin that needs to be obliterated is shown in that diagram in the atxg4 link?? So, if that is studied long enough it might be figured out??

And, this also means that a "generic" or currently available PSU . . . known as an "ATX" PSU could be used in the ST . . . connected to the MB with an "ATX extension cable" . . . ?????


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:48 pm 
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See, I told ya so... anybody that thinks a reply is off topic isn't seeing the big picture... we owe the spammer an apology for bring new life/info to this old thread! :coffee:


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:24 pm 
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Well, as the OP I was "happy" to see a post, any post, on the thread . . . but I think "apology" is maybe a bridge too far . . . . Was the post "off topic" or . . . "on topic" but . . . plagiarized "spam" . . . not even "original spam" . . . . But, nobody insulted the spammer . . . BD even said, "welcome aboard" . . . so I think the score is even . . . ????


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:48 pm 
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I'll have to compare the current ATX spec pinout to the atx pinout on that g4 site to see if any important voltages have been removed. In particular there used to be a negative rail that was removed ages ago that P2/P3-era motherboards needed, which is around the era when those pinouts were created.

As I recall some G4 boards needed more pins than the ATX connector provided so those would require some soldering to tie all the extra pins to another line. But I don't remember which they were.

Maybe you don't end up with an ATX supply but you could end up with the cheapest G4 supply on eBay and use an adapter cable to make it work.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:51 pm 
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Ok, we can call it even since they won't be back anyway. :idea:


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:21 pm 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
I'll have to compare the current ATX spec pinout to the atx pinout on that g4 site to see if any important voltages have been removed.

Maybe you don't end up with an ATX supply but you could end up with the cheapest G4 supply on eBay and use an adapter cable to make it work.


Coolio . . . that is the "next step" in the plan . . . G4 friendly PSU . . . . Spammers . . . any ideas for it??? :welcome:


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:59 pm 
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I suspect they live in knowledge city now because got a membership on this forum.

Sorry I'm under the weather today, not sure if I have the necessary concentration for comparing pinouts. If I remember right the current spec is listed on wikipedia's atx page and the g4atx page lists what they think each pin is supposed to be on the atx power supply so just go down the list pin by pin and make a note of any differences.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:18 pm 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
I suspect they live in knowledge city now because got a membership on this forum.

Sorry I'm under the weather today, not sure if I have the necessary concentration for comparing pinouts. If I remember right the current spec is listed on wikipedia's atx page and the g4atx page lists what they think each pin is supposed to be on the atx power supply so just go down the list pin by pin and make a note of any differences.


@MB:

No worries, there is no particular rush on this one . . . I don't have too much spare time right now . . . . But, it would be helpful to know specific parts that could "plug in" . . . or is it one of those things where there is only one "ATX" power supply?

eep


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:38 pm 
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There are multiple revisions to the ATX standard so depending on which supply you get it can be any one of a number of different pinouts.

The first major revision that bit me was when they removed some power lines that were supposedly only used by floppy drives, for instance, in newer specs they added 4 more pins to make it 24 instead of 20 pins on the main connector, then they added a 4 pin connector for CPU power which later got expanded to 8 pins...

Basically its complicated.

For G4 power supplies you have to know which system it came out of because each generation G4 used a different pinout, and sometimes different connectors... though I think they're all 20 pins on the main connector. Quicksilver added an additional 4 pin connector for something or other.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:17 am 
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@MB:

OK . . . "basic" "complication" . . . I get it. I was thinking last night that the next step might be to pull the G4 out of its slot and figure out what's in there for the supply and/or connector . . . but, that gets "complicated" . . . time . . . space . . . etc.

No rush on it; as of now it would probably boot and run for a little while . . . bringing a small dose of joy with those olden moments.

eep


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