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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:28 am 
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Fingers crossed...


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:12 am 
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Always . . . funny how the various PPC machines each take their turn moving from catatonia to "full function" . . . at various junctures . . . . For now the PM is "back" . . . . :bonk:


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:24 pm 
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este.el.paz wrote:
Always . . . funny how the various PPC machines each take their turn moving from catatonia to "full function" . . . at various junctures . . . . For now the PM is "back" . . . . :bonk:


et al:

So, from the last post the PM has had several "deaths" or fail to chime/boot and several "births" . . . today I again tried to boot it and "viola" she chimed and booted, and then rebooted . . . since it doesn't have "suspend" had to shut down and another successful cold boot . . . and, all is more or less "OK" in what is now Xu 16.04 PPC. This was after she sat idle for at least a month . . . perhaps to forget the pain of existence??

Problem is at some point in the near future when I shut it down, it cycles back into the "no chime/no boot" . . . and in past episodes AHT doesn't "find" any problems that help with diagnostic . . . . Just seems to be a day or two of running, then suddenly multiple cold boots brings the "fan motor" blowing, i.e., power is getting to the mobo? but no chime, no boot, no power to display?

Using it now and the display is crisp, only the web seems to overwhelm the 2GB RAM, FF seems to be "crashing" probably due to lack of resources . . . the only parts not replaced besides mobo is the video card . . . could there somehow be something that intermittently "fails" on the video card, such that it would prevent the chime and boot?

There is no TTY available when it fails to boot . . . when it runs as it has now for 5 or 6 hours, it's "fine" . . . apps boot "slowly" but, here in Midori I am able to type this post. And, problem is that when it doesn't boot the AHT can't be run . . . when it's running, no need for AHT . . . .

That's the latest . . . on the zombie PPC unit news . . . .

ee


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:05 pm 
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Next time it's cold & you expect it to not boot, try heating the interior with a hair dryer.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:19 pm 
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BDAqua wrote:
Next time it's cold & you expect it to not boot, try heating the interior with a hair dryer.


OK, so far I can't exactly trace non-booting to cold temps, as a couple months ago we had "warmth" in LA, and it would not boot then . . . doesn't seem to be any externally reproducible factors that have shown themselves . . . with any consistency. But, perhaps if I get into a non-boot phase I could try the hair dryer . . . what exactly would I want to warm up??? my target area for warming?? I don't have much hair left, not sure if my wife has a dryer . . .??? :confused:

ee


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:28 pm 
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I suspect capacitors, but that's mainly because when anything is old I suspect capacitors. Caps in the PSU could be just as problematic. Used to be you could get Digital Audio motherboards and power supplies for around $25-50 each on eBay and they were generally in perfect working order. I picked up a spare DA motherboard and spare Quicksilver power supply back when. Power supply got used then died itself after a few years, but in theory that spare motherboard should still be OK. However unless you have a DA PSU its pinout would need to be adapted - I rewired an ATX extension cable for Quicksilver to DA, something similar could be done for whatever to DA, assuming your PSU puts out all the necessary DA voltages. I found a really wonderful pinout diagram at one point of all the motherboards, wonder if it still exists...


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:39 pm 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
I suspect capacitors, but that's mainly because when anything is old I suspect capacitors. Caps in the PSU could be just as problematic. Used to be you could get Digital Audio motherboards and power supplies for around $25-50 each on eBay and they were generally in perfect working order. I picked up a spare DA motherboard and spare Quicksilver power supply back when. Power supply got used then died itself after a few years, but in theory that spare motherboard should still be OK. However unless you have a DA PSU its pinout would need to be adapted - I rewired an ATX extension cable for Quicksilver to DA, something similar could be done for whatever to DA, assuming your PSU puts out all the necessary DA voltages. I found a really wonderful pinout diagram at one point of all the motherboards, wonder if it still exists...


@MB:

So, when you say "capacitors" that is essentially a mobo issue? Or, you are talking about "power supply" which is another part of the computer? But seemingly problematic to find viable replacement parts for?

When this thread started BD asked about the "red button" on the mobo, which at that time the red button was lighting up . . . . Computer ran for quite a few hours today, now shut down . . . I'll see tomorrow or the next day if it reboots or . . . again "the black spot" . . . . :p_dog:

ee


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:41 pm 
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You can convert an ATX PSU for use on a G4...

http://atxg4.com/sawtooth.html
http://atxg4.com/gige-da.html
http://atxg4.com/quicksilver.html
http://atxg4.com/mdd.html
http://atxg4.com/


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:48 pm 
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BDAqua wrote:


@BD:

OK, thanks for that, I have the Sawtooth . . . but, how to test for the problem to see if that could be the issue?? I'll have to check the links in the morning . . . working now . . .

ee


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:26 pm 
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Capacitors exist on your motherboard, on the CPU card, on the video card, in the PSU, on the hard drive... they're everywhere.

They tend to fail quickly in the PSU because it runs hot and the dirtier your power the faster it fails. In my case the PSUs failed after the fan in them failed. The next hop after the PSU is the motherboard...


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:13 am 
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este.el.paz wrote:
BDAqua wrote:
You can convert an ATX PSU for use on a G4...

http://atxg4.com/sawtooth.html
http://atxg4.com/

@BD:

OK, thanks for that, I have the Sawtooth . . . but, how to test for the problem to see if that could be the issue?? I'll have to check the links in the morning . . . working now . . .
ee


Taking a look at this, OK, that looks "easy" . . . any time "soldering" is mentioned . . . the eyes glaze over . . . with visions of globs of blackened solder piling up in places it isn't supposed to be, etc. :badteeth:

MonkeyBoy wrote:
Capacitors exist on your motherboard, on the CPU card, on the video card, in the PSU, on the hard drive... they're everywhere.

They tend to fail quickly in the PSU because it runs hot and the dirtier your power the faster it fails. In my case the PSUs failed after the fan in them failed. The next hop after the PSU is the motherboard...


@MB: Thanks for the follow-up . . . so first "easiest" is to just R&R the PSU ??? Thinking about this last night, when the computer doesn't boot/chime, the "fan" or something does power on and run . . . I guess looking at that picture of the ATX wiring harness, with all those wires it could be possible to run the fan while other aspects would be failing??

Well, I'll continue to "monitor" it, it is becoming "too slow" for jumping around on the web, it took an hour to get FF to log into my Sync account, multiple FF crashes while logging into Yahoo, etc . . . it has become an exercise in learning about the innards of the basic computer though, so the game has become seeing how long this one can be flogged . . . soldering might be a bridge too far . . . . :classic-eek:

Thanks for the links and the conversation . . . appreciate it
ee

Obviously the least desirable scenario is having it be the mobo


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:43 pm 
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I would visually check to see if the power supply fan is still spinning. If you really can't see you could slowly stick something like a thin straw (e.g. one included with WD40) into the opening and see if you can hear it "ting" when a blade hits the straw. If you immediately remove it there should be no issue, and if you're really slow it'll ting-ting-ting as multiple blades graze it. If the fan is dead the PSU is probably also well on its way to dying. I don't recommend something big and hard like a screwdriver because that could take a chunk out of a blade or, worst case, snap off a blade.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:27 pm 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
I would visually check to see if the power supply fan is still spinning. If you really can't see you could slowly stick something like a thin straw (e.g. one included with WD40) into the opening and see if you can hear it "ting" when a blade hits the straw. If you immediately remove it there should be no issue, and if you're really slow it'll ting-ting-ting as multiple blades graze it. If the fan is dead the PSU is probably also well on its way to dying. I don't recommend something big and hard like a screwdriver because that could take a chunk out of a blade or, worst case, snap off a blade.


@MB:

Cool. I have a few of those lube straws around . . . I'll try to get to that . . . be a few days or so until I can get the time to pull the PM out of the end of the table so I can access the back, etc. I'll update when there is an update . . . .

eep


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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 3:50 pm 
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Latest update from "zombie 3,1" land . . . whenever we last spoke I tried that "lube straw" idea and it did seem to indicate that the fan is spinning . . . . Today, after several months of not messing with the PM . . . we had a little rain here this morning, so no moto ride to chill the shattered mind . . . booted her up and into the "U-MATE/XFCE" edition of 16.04 for PPC and ran some updates . . . rebooted into the OSX 10.5 "chapter" --then, after leaving it in sleep for an hour or so, started fiddling with TFF to see if it was up to date . . . machine is plugged into ethernet . . . TFF wasn't "connecting" to websites, with the 2GB RAM it doesn't seem to do the standard "social media" pages very well . . . but it wasn't doing anything very well . . . . Launched Mail and tried Connection Doc . . . CD first said, "Mail is connected to internet" . . . but after a few minutes of spinning BBs it found errors in all of the accountants and said something about "uncheck use SSL"???

I kept trying stuff, then I saw what looked like an orange "aura" around the cursor . . . and that came and went several times, then the cursor got "crashy" . . . where it wasn't responding to mouse movements . . . then the display went black and the display power button turned "orange" which it does when the computers (two are plugged into it) go to sleep . . . .

I thought the computer had "died" . . . so I tried the power button on the keyboard . . . holding it for awhile . . . made an error "beep" . . . then I pushed the power button on the machine . . . and a voice spoke to me . . . "Are you sure this is what you want to do????" . . . it wasn't Siri . . . and there was nobody else home . . . it was the PM . . . error voice . . . seems like it was indicating that the system didn't crash and was still running . . . just no "video" . . . .

I tried to restart via the PB and this time, back to no chime, just the machine powers up, fan blowing . . . nothing makes it to the display. I know that MB suggested "capacitors" . . . I'm wondering if this might be "video card" related? Would that be any easy to test and fix than "capacitors"??? Last I checked as per BD's advice, the "red light" was lit on the MB . . . . Haven't spent a lot of time on this machine, it is now essentially not useful on the internet . . . but does have 12 years or more of PPC data stored on it . . . . Worth trying to find a card for it for cheep?? Seems like the computer will run for awhile when it hasn't been booted up, then fails and won't re-start until several days/weeks/months go by . . . then it will boot up and run fine . . . ????


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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 6:36 pm 
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Does the Zombie run any longer with the side cover open?


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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 1:49 am 
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Well, you could always try picking up a video card off eBay. "agp mac video" returned a few G5 cards and a lot of old G4 cards. G5 cards use a different connector, and the G4 cards are divided into those with ADC and those without ADC. Since you're on a Sawtooth you'd want one w/o ADC, since you don't have the motherboard power connector for it.

As for access to your data, if its on an IDE HD you could put it in a USB case and access it on another Mac. IDE cases are getting hard to find but not impossible.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004BU6ITW

I saw a case recently that accepted both SATA and IDE HDs. I found it while digging around looking for eSATA cases, but can't find it now. I suppose the advantage is that you can buy one case and use it now with the IDE HD, then use it at some point in the future after sticking a larger SATA HD inside. Assuming it lasts long enough.


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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 8:32 am 
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BDAqua wrote:
Does the Zombie run any longer with the side cover open?


@BD:

So, looking for heat issues causing a problem?? That might be "do-able" as the PM is squeezed onto the end of the door-table, but, there is a gap between it and the wall, so at some point I could try it out and see how it goes.


MonkeyBoy wrote:
Well, you could always try picking up a video card off eBay. "agp mac video" returned a few G5 cards and a lot of old G4 cards. G5 cards use a different connector, and the G4 cards are divided into those with ADC and those without ADC. Since you're on a Sawtooth you'd want one w/o ADC, since you don't have the motherboard power connector for it.
As for access to your data, if its on an IDE HD you could put it in a USB case and access it on another Mac. IDE cases are getting hard to find but not impossible.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004BU6ITW
I saw a case recently that accepted both SATA and IDE HDs. I found it while digging around looking for eSATA cases, but can't find it now. I suppose the advantage is that you can buy one case and use it now with the IDE HD, then use it at some point in the future after sticking a larger SATA HD inside. Assuming it lasts long enough.


@MB:

Thanks again for the technical details . . . might be worth trying out a video card for it. And, also thanks for the link to the case, might also be something to try. Thanks to you gents here I do have one of those adapter cables that I believe has an IDE to SATA connection . . . for what was possibly this machine as we were trying to "diagnose" it's death over the last several years. I was trying to think whether it would "tray" into my MPro, but now realize, no, IDE connection won't work. So, cool, might be good to snap up a case for it soon, as at some point the final moment will finally arrive . . . .

eep


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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 12:32 pm 
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It does sound like a heat issue.


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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 3:11 pm 
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BDAqua wrote:
It does sound like a heat issue.


I will take that under advisement . . . with time running . . . heat is accumulating . . . and it causes something to drop visual output . . . . Nothing in too much of a hurry on this one . . . it's just kind of fun to hear the motorola processor clicking away while it's "thinking" . . . . :snail:


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:24 am 
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Folks:

The other day, after sitting for a few months, I tried again to boot the PM Sawtoothe . . . think I had tried a month or two back to no response . . . this time, got the chime, got the old linux PPC boot option screen, chose "linux" . . . screen went black, then it went orange . . . bright orange . . . like our fearless leaders hair . . . and stayed that way for several minutes . . . .

Hit the power key to shut down. Tried to reboot it a couple of times after that, and no chime, nada . . . .

Would the "orange" screen bring it closer to a diagnosis of "video card" issues? Or, nope, that doesn't make anything more clear diagnostically???? Would like to have an idea if that is likely a video card problem before spending time chasing a used card on . . . eBay . . . . This is "mission non-critical" these days, but it does have upgraded cpu and RAM and does have like 14 years of OSX data installed on it . . . be nice if it could boot up and run again . . . .

eep


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 10:29 am 
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What color background does your linux install use, seems many use a putrid orange!?

Next time... how long will it sit on boot option screen?

Too bad you're not closer, I think somewhere in the poles around here there must be a dozen PM graphic cards... if you could find them.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 12:13 pm 
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BDAqua wrote:
What color background does your linux install use, seems many use a putrid orange!?

Next time... how long will it sit on boot option screen?

Too bad you're not closer, I think somewhere in the poles around here there must be a dozen PM graphic cards... if you could find them.


@BD:

Thanks for the reply. On this install it's U-MATE 16.04?? And that background is generally a "green" color . . . so the "orange" is non-stock, not part of the usual boot scenario . . . aka, "not right" . . .

The boot option screen in PPC never lasts long . . . you have to move quickly to pick the non-default option or it will auto load the "linux" boot screen . . . and it would then in a few seconds auto boot "linux" . . . which then goes to the "splash" window . . . and then to the GUI lime green window . . . . This time just went for the Yaboot options, I did pick linux and then went to "orange" and just stayed there . . . .

Couple tries to boot after that, no chime . . . no Yaboot . . . no nothing . . . . Usually has to sit for another few months before it will boot with chime . . . .


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 12:21 pm 
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High possibility it's the graphic card.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 12:26 pm 
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BDAqua wrote:
High possibility it's the graphic card.


Cool. "High possibility" makes it something that narrows the field of pursuit . . . it is one of the items left that is still "original" equipment . . . . It's not at the top of the "to do" list but might now make it to the bottom . . . "Sawtooth graphics card" . . . .


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:04 am 
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este.el.paz wrote:
BDAqua wrote:
High possibility it's the graphic card.


Cool. "High possibility" makes it something that narrows the field of pursuit . . . it is one of the items left that is still "original" equipment . . . . It's not at the top of the "to do" list but might now make it to the bottom . . . "Sawtooth graphics card" . . . .


@group:

Not seeming to get any bounce on the posts on RC-72??? thread . . . so I had a few minutes to search everymac.com for the PM 3,1 video card . . . and then eBay and Google . . . but I'm assuming that we're back to the "must be flashed for Mac" issues that exist in the Mac Pro?? Figuring that the later card might be more available I searched
Code:
ATI Rage 128 Pro graphics card
and got a hit on Amazon . . . can't tell if it's new or not, but it says "Dell" . . . and over in eBay side it is "out of stock" on one page, but then various manufacturers "gigabite"?? of course Radeon . . . mentioned, they look used . . . .

Does any of that matter if I'm trying to dual boot 10.5 & U-Mate 16.04 PPC?? Or, any card will do . . . it just needs an "AGP" connector??

eep


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