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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:03 am 
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It might just be my 10.5.0 installation media doesn't take kindly to being mucked with. I've tried everything to get it to boot while cloned to a HD on my G5. G5s don't support USB booting but I connected it via Firewire and still no dice...


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:45 am 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
It might just be my 10.5.0 installation media doesn't take kindly to being mucked with. I've tried everything to get it to boot while cloned to a HD on my G5. G5s don't support USB booting but I connected it via Firewire and still no dice...


@MB:

Indeed some things in life don't take kindly to a good mucking . . . G5's are apparently in that group, as I've seen on the ubuntu apple user forum the G5 guys seem to have troubles that the rest of us in the G4 realm don't have.

I'm sure you've tried everything, hard to know why you can't boot an ext HD connected via FW . . . of course using the Alt key to get the Boot Manager? Some times things don't work for no particular reason; I always seemed to have a hard time getting linux to run on my iMac 800 whereas guys in Europe didn't seem to have any problem or need any special boot params or video drivers to do that . . . .

Depending on what you are trying to do with the 10.5 installer, like, install it to the G5, didja try dragging it over to the desktop and then 2x click the installer from the "local drive"??? That sometimes has made the difference for some of my installs over the years . . . the installer wouldn't install to a "remote" disk . . . Apple . . . they have "rules" . . . and they change them around . . . .

e.e.p.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:31 pm 
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I can boot an ext FW HD, I just can't boot a FW HD that's had the installation media cloned to it. It shows up as a valid boot device, but the boot never completes. Installation media has a really weird boot process so I can't pinpoint whats gone wrong when running in verbose mode, but it just will sit there at the apple logo for hours. My backup disk has both a bootable backup volume and a Time Machine volume connected via FW800, it boots fine from the bootable backup.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:40 pm 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
I can boot an ext FW HD, I just can't boot a FW HD that's had the installation media cloned to it. It shows up as a valid boot device, but the boot never completes. Installation media has a really weird boot process so I can't pinpoint whats gone wrong when running in verbose mode, but it just will sit there at the apple logo for hours. My backup disk has both a bootable backup volume and a Time Machine volume connected via FW800, it boots fine from the bootable backup.


Sounds like what I might have been referring to, but I can't remember what it was . . . . For the installer to work, it could be that if you drag it over from the partition in the ext HD to an internal partition, then it would boot and be able to run the install??? If I'm understanding that you only have the installer cloned into the ext HD partition of which you are speaking about, i.e., you have other back ups of the whole system that boot OK . . . .

Life is all about "Limitations" . . . sometimes they are more limiting than other times , , , ,


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:46 pm 
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I can't remember what all I've tried. I've had the G5 for 4 or so years now, I tried a lot of stuff trying to get this to work when it was new. It might be a G5 specific thing because I swear I booted off a FW clone of the installation CD.

One of my internal HDs is 10.5 while the other is 10.4 and I'd be very sad if I messed up the 10.4 install since another board member sent me that installation media and I'll be damned if I know where (a couple moves later) its at. Once I transition over to my Mini I'll probably swap move the G5 back to 10.4... everything is so much faster. But that also means running software a generation older, which is frustrating at times.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:09 pm 
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@MB:

Right, having the option of booting 10.4 or 10.5 is good; historically I also liked 10.4 as "the best" all-around OSX system, light weight, did everything I needed to do . . . problem is that now many of the browser options only go back to 10.5 . . . and possibly even TFF is doing something so that 10.4 is "grand-fathered" or "legacy" . . . so it isn't getting regular updates???? (can't remember that story now). So, for the machine to even be somewhat "useful" on the web you can't fight the march of time and the "default" should be 10.5 . . . until such time as that falls off the "edge" . . . .

As long as you can boot them both and have the two options "cloned" over to ext HD you should be "fine" . . . you can just "dump the clone" or rather clone the clone over to an empty partition and you should be able to boot and run . . . I've done it enough times w/o issue that way. Caveat being to "repair disk" and/or "repair permissions" on occasion . . . and/or applejack-ing . . . .


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:24 pm 
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este.el.paz wrote:
...historically I also liked 10.4 as "the best" all-around OSX system, light weight, did everything I needed to do . . . problem is that now many of the browser options only go back to 10.5 . . . and possibly even TFF is doing something so that 10.4 is "grand-fathered" or "legacy" . . . so it isn't getting regular updates????

It has been some years since TFF has been supported.

I think getting an old OS functioning securely on the internet is a lost hope because internet software technology is always falling over itself ever forward, and this is in counterpoint to an old OS which is bound to the past, captured in amber. Old OSes are still valid according to their time, but they are lost in the current moment of the internet, if because they can't handle modern codecs for example, or they have potential security holes that are unpatched and forgotten.

It is good to keep an old OS for its software that is obsolete though still enjoyable or even useful, but equally its very age precludes it from being modern. And the internet is the cutting edge.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:09 am 
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roam wrote:
este.el.paz wrote:
...historically I also liked 10.4 as "the best" all-around OSX system, light weight, did everything I needed to do . . . problem is that now many of the browser options only go back to 10.5 . . . and possibly even TFF is doing something so that 10.4 is "grand-fathered" or "legacy" . . . so it isn't getting regular updates????

It has been some years since TFF has been supported.
It is good to keep an old OS for its software that is obsolete though still enjoyable or even useful, but equally its very age precludes it from being modern. And the internet is the cutting edge.


@roam:

Yep, "technology is like a shark . . . it has to continually move forward . . . or it 'dies' . . ." To paraphrase Woody Allen quote . . . . I enjoyed having a few moments of playing Sigma Chess the other day, which either didn't make it out of PPC or into some other new technology . . . very nice app . . . only worry was that the OS was going to have a kernel panic within seconds; but, something about having it hooked up to iBook in target mode got the iMac over the panics and into 10.4 for a few minutes of computer Chess. : - )

e...


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:30 am 
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TFF is TenFourFox. It supports 10.4. It sees regular updates. Every Firefox release by Mozilla has a corresponding TenFourFox release (though with the coming of the insanity that is electrolysis it's now a feature/function parity release and not the same version - thank god).

TFF can support WebM and HTML5 Video. The only problem is that you probably need a G5 to get decent performance. Of course with videos you could always download it and play it through VLC or QuickTime, which normally do a hell of a lot better job on legacy hardware.

10.4 was always a lot more stable than 10.5 on PPCs. It's the #1 reason I'm still, to this day, pissed that they didn't keep 10.6 dual platform, because 10.6 fixed so many of the bugs they introduced in 10.5.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:51 pm 
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Hey guyz . . . guyyyzzzz:

Can't remember if this has been covered before, but, any possible way that the Mercury Extreme 1.2 GHz from the now "dormant" PM 3,1 . . . could be slid into the iMac, now 800, but possibly 1.2 GHz???

I'm getting that the immediate answer might be **NO WAY in Heck** . . . but, what about if the beautiful white shell was "modified" either precisely or brutally in such a way that the cpu could be plugged into the iMac??? That could get me around a host of problems about upgrading . . . such that the now 10.5 OSX system in the PM 3,1 could also be simply transferred w/o having to retro downgrade it, etc????

Or, what . . . search eBay for a cpu upgrade for a later model of iMac that might work?? CPU's soldered in? Possible to melt the solder with a solder gun and yank it out? Or doing that would probably burn up vital electronics??

Still it would be kind of funny to have a "Brazil" type iMac, with a Mad Max blower sticking out of the clean white dome . . . .

Feasible in any way or Pipe Dream . . . ???

e.e.p.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:04 pm 
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I never say never, but will make n exception in this case!

As I recall the only CPU upgrade ever for any iMac, (due to CPUs being soldered in), was for early G3 iMac with a mezzanine slot/board. :coffee:


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:20 pm 
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BDAqua wrote:
I never say never, but will make n exception in this case!

As I recall the only CPU upgrade ever for any iMac, (due to CPUs being soldered in), was for early G3 iMac with a mezzanine slot/board. :coffee:



OK . . . alone again . . . . No way to un-solder them??


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:16 am 
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They're surface mounted, so without a fully equipped workbench you're SOL.

If you found a faster same generation iMac on eBay you could swap motherboards. Assuming the motherboard works of course.

The lampshade iMacs are really odd. The power supply only produces a single voltage and the motherboard has the necessary hardware to convert it to other voltages. The HD and optical drive, for instance, need both 5V & 12V.

As I recall there are a random silver iMacs with socketed CPUs instead of soldered on models. They're usually the first runs off the production line. This process petered out with the later generations, probably because Apple decided earlier in the process which CPU will be used in which model.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:02 am 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
TFF is TenFourFox. It supports 10.4. It sees regular updates. Every Firefox release by Mozilla has a corresponding TenFourFox release (though with the coming of the insanity that is electrolysis it's now a feature/function parity release and not the same version - thank god)....

That's informative. I stand ignorant on Ten Four Fox, but I am still surprised for anyone connecting to the internet with Tiger. Perhaps all those OS security updates are much overstated. I am inclined to think so, given the lack of headlines 'Mac OS Tiger fans scammed big-time'. Maybe the OS security update thingy nicely feeds into Apple's 'time to buy a new computer' strategy, if only implicitly.

This encourages me to keep my old OS alive a little longer.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:57 am 
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Well, PowerPC Macs using fully updated software to connect the internet are just as secure as any other system (one could argue given the different instruction set that it's more secure than using an older OS on x86 since few attackers will send PPC instructions when exploiting a buffer overrun).

It's when you use outdated software, like Safari or Mail, on them that you get into trouble. Assuming Safari works at all, given the insane code that current websites want to use. And cross platform exploits like Flash or Java are the same on all platforms, so its best not to utilize them on outdated platforms. Or on updated platforms. :badteeth:


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:15 am 
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New update from the Zombie Alliance . . . zombie PM 3,1 "auto-revives" . . . on its own . . . ???

A bit of a strange incident a few days back, while running the Mac Pro trying to get OpenSUSE Tumbleweed edition set up, I ran some "updates" . . . and then when I came back into the room from refreshing the cup I noticed what I thought was the Mac Pro fan blowing more loudly than it has had any reason to do . . . so I tried a few "moves" to reduce what I thought was the load on the cpu . . . nope fan still blowing, not super crazy, just loudly . . . ??? Was this TW which doesn't have "fan control" set up, so I tried to reboot out of it and into what would be OSX to see if that would throttle it down . . . .

On reboot there was a ???? yaboot log in screen?????? why is yaboot showing up on the display, when it should be GRUB?? Screen appeared to be stuck on the selection of mobo? so now I'm hitting the power button on the Mac Pro to shut it down and it doesn't understand why I'm doing that . . . yaboot black screen remains . . . WTF . . . now I'm un-plugging the Mac Pro . . . and the fan is still loudly blowing??? Is this running on battery? Will this kill my battery??? What is going on???

Standing up now, and hmmm . . . sound actually appears to be coming from the other side of the MP . . . over where the PowerMac is . . . hmmmm . . . they are both plugged into the same display . . . hmmm . . . somehow the PM decided it needed to boot up and run . . . of its own accord . . . Apocalypse of the Zombie Alliance . . . machines can now cold boot whenever they feel like it . . . !!! . . . first time it started no chime, I rebooted it with the button, chime, but nothing shows up on the display, third time, no chime . . . decided to un-plug the PM. We'll see if it needs a power supply to re-vivify the next time. :bonk: :classic-eek: :emphatic-eek:


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:29 pm 
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I’ve got 4 or 5 cases, motherboards, internal guts, etc. for (Yosemite) G3s and (AGP/Sawtooth/Quadnostril) G4s lying around, waiting to be assembled. I’m not sure why I am still holding onto them, other than the notion that I have a couple bootable Classic, OS9, and 10.4 HDs ready to go. Additionally, two of the OS9 HDs are set up for Voodoo3/5 gaming! Someday when I am in my 80s I am sure I will get them up and running again. :lol:

:g3: :g4:

-he who stacks pork

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:47 pm 
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You're probably holding onto them for the same reason I have two DA motherboards, three processors, two QS power supplies, etc.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 6:39 am 
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Leopold Porkstacker wrote:
I’ve got 4 or 5 cases, motherboards, internal guts, etc. for (Yosemite) G3s and (AGP/Sawtooth/Quadnostril) G4s lying around, waiting to be assembled. I’m not sure why I am still holding onto them, :lol:

:g3: :g4:

-he who stacks pork


@LP:

Well, um, thanks for the offer . . . I just don't know what it is that is inducing auto-animation in my Sawtoothe, like would that be an errant motherboard aspect?? . . . but, if I get it figured out I don't think you are too far away from me here on the Westside . . . great to know you've got my part just sitting there collecting dust . . . the soul of my Zombie Alliance ST is crying out for a local G4 Pick-A-Part . . . . :p_dog:


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:47 pm 
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Finally figured out how I could erase the 11 years of files from the OSX side of my iMac, made problematic by continual kernel panics on the boot/log in . . . did a 7 pass zero attack . . . then fresh install of 10.4.6 . . . followed by "erase free space" of one layer of zeroes . . . .

After reboot of the install, we've logged in and computer seems to be running "OK" . . . typing this in the new 10.4 install . . . only problem is that iTunes claims "you aren't connected to the internet" . . . Network Diagnostics says, "Why are you bothering me, you are connected" . . . and able to post here.

Was thinking like maybe this unit could become like the iTunes internet radio connection . . . with the super-duper OEM ext speakers . . . but, perhaps iTunes in this edition is "too olde"??? Showed the 10.4.11 Combo update as "available" in Software Update, but, I think the last time I messed with this in the PM, it doesn't actually download . . . ??? It pretends to be doing something, but it's long been pulled from the server, yes??? I have the update backed-up, I'm just wondering whether it's better to leave it the base 10.4.6 install, lighter is better as far as the failing HD is concerned . . . .

Seems to work OK over in the Xubuntu 12.04 side . . . just kind of amusing how it hasn't hd a kiniption fit . . . yet . . . . Just a couple days back booting to the OSX side brought instant "panic" black bars from command line with white letters of death . . . . Zombie Apocalypse . . . all over again.

e.e.p.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:16 pm 
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Want me to upload the 10.4.11 Combo somewhere?

MacOSXUpdCombo10.4.11PPC.dmg 1,900.077 Bytes


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:19 pm 
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BD:

Thanks, pretty sure I have it on my back-up . . . checking it in a few minutes. One thing I think I've said before and saying again, the iMac 800 display, possibly due to nvidia card, is very nice, very crisp and clean . . . Plus I still like 10.4 . . . .

e.e.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:08 pm 
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Usual comedy of errors . . . seems like FW ports on the iMac "aren't working" . . . couldn't get ext HD to show up; got the iBook out, tried to Target mode, each way . . . no working . . . . Got a usb flash drive to move the files off the iBook and in the middle of that transfer the usb port where the flashdrive was plugged in . . . died???

Back over to the MP . . . booted the ext HD, found the files . . . moved them to the flash drive . . . I'll try the upgrades tomorrow . . . forgot about the fact that installing OSX breaks the linux yaboot file . . . glad it's all for sh*ts & giggles . . . .

e.e.p.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:43 pm 
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reset FW bus, same goes for USB reset...
Reset the Firewire bus
If your Firewire or USB isn't recognizing any device.  A solution which has worked for some whose hard drive became invisible in 10.4 was simply to follow these four steps to reset the Firewire/USB bus:
1. Shut the machine down.
2. UNPLUG the power lead to the computer and any firewire/USB drive or devices.
3. leave it for 10 minutes.
4. Connect back up and reboot. 
http://www.macmaps.com/firewirebug2.html


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