XYMer's Home away from Home

When http://bbs.xlr8yourmac.com is down (i.e. always)
Privacy Policy
It is currently Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:11 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 35 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 3:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 8:21 pm
Posts: 1288
Location: Burblandia
I got this alert when I booted into my system this evening (see pic)
Attachment:
Screen Shot 2020-01-01 at 6.03.52 PM.png
Screen Shot 2020-01-01 at 6.03.52 PM.png [ 23.73 KiB | Viewed 1596 times ]

Also the notice that "Backup has failed".

My Time machine disk is an external USB 3TB wall outlet powered WD MyBook wdbacw0030hbk. I don't have 3 TB of unused drive space to temporarily copy the files from the WD MyBook while I reformat it. I guess this means one of two things (please correct me if I'm wrong or missing something).

1. By a new Time Machine device copy files from MyBook to the new device, reformat MyBook and retransfer files back from the new device. That does leave me with an extra device, but perhaps the MyBook is sending me a suttle message that it is on the way out. It is probably 9-10 years old.

2. Delete some back ups from the MyBook until the data present is small enough to fit on another drive. I would only consider this if there is a systematic way to delete only duplicate back ups. I don't see a obvious method to accomplish that.

Anyone have thoughts or suggestions? Is there a scenario I've missed?

_________________
GA-EX58-UD3R Rev. 1.6 FK • Xeon x5650 • NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 3:40 pm 
Offline
Benevolent Dictator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:03 am
Posts: 17708
Whew, if you want a short lived drive get it in a WD case, or any OEM Drive manufacture's case, if you want it to fail even sooner make it 3TB or 1.5TB, if you need even more rapid failure make it a Seagate 3TB...

https://www.lifehacker.com.au/2015/01/w ... 3-tb-ones/

OWC Mercury Elite cases are the best/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 3:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 8:21 pm
Posts: 1288
Location: Burblandia
BDAqua wrote:
Whew, if you want a short lived drive get it in a WD case, or any OEM Drive manufacture's case, if you want it to fail even sooner make it 3TB or 1.5TB, if you need even more rapid failure make it a Seagate 3TB...

https://www.lifehacker.com.au/2015/01/w ... 3-tb-ones/

OWC Mercury Elite cases are the best/

Something like this OWC 4TB from Amazon?

_________________
GA-EX58-UD3R Rev. 1.6 FK • Xeon x5650 • NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 3:59 pm 
Offline
Benevolent Dictator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:03 am
Posts: 17708
Yes, good find, then you can try cloning the whole WD to the new drive with Carbon Copy Cloner...

http://www.bombich.com/software/ccc.html


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:30 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:51 pm
Posts: 718
Location: Minnesota, USA
I always buy enclosures and drives separately. I can't say for sure but I bet that OWC package you linked has the price kept down by putting a so-so drive into a good enclosure. Probably a Toshiba which the last time I reviewed drives wasn't getting the highest marks. If I were you I'd buy the enclosure empty and then put whatever you think is the best drive into it. Ask OWC what's in it.

So maybe WD has poor enclosures, but I think the actual drives are probably as reliable as anything you will find now, not that that's saying much.

As for 'best drives', that's a tough one. BDAqua posted links a few months ago to a site that reviews drive failures from server farms. Nice database but some of those models may no longer be available or in your price range. When I need drives I tend to look on places with many reviews (such as Amazon) and then read a bunch of reviews. Remember nobody is going to get 5/5 because people who got a lemon, or didn't realize that many of drives sold on Amazon (and other big electronics vendors) are bare drives with no warranty, are the ones who will definitely post about their unhappiness. Models also change and Amazon tends to aggregate its models in reviews, so make sure you're reading a review about a recent item and one that matches your specifications.

I recently bought some bare drives and let myself be talked into a Seagate 6 TB Ironcloud. Seagate used to be tops about 15 years ago, then took a real quality dive about 7 years ago. I wanted a faster drive but it seems everything WD has is 5400 rpm once you start getting larger than 1TB.

Incidentally, what I do is not buy a standard enclosure but use a Voyager docking station. The prices are very reasonable and let me use multiple bare drives with not having to pay for an enclosure for each. I keep many files on archive drives so I can just swap out a drive in half a minute if I need to use another one. Otherwise my backup sits on the dock most of the time.

I'll just point out that the lifehacker article linked earlier is interesting but is 5 years old. That's a long time in the technology world.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:41 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 8:21 pm
Posts: 1288
Location: Burblandia
Limnos wrote:
I always buy enclosures and drives separately. I can't say for sure but I bet that OWC package you linked has the price kept down by putting a so-so drive into a good enclosure. Probably a Toshiba which the last time I reviewed drives wasn't getting the highest marks. If I were you I'd buy the enclosure empty and then put whatever you think is the best drive into it. Ask OWC what's in it.

So maybe WD has poor enclosures, but I think the actual drives are probably as reliable as anything you will find now, not that that's saying much.

As for 'best drives', that's a tough one. BDAqua posted links a few months ago to a site that reviews drive failures from server farms. Nice database but some of those models may no longer be available or in your price range. When I need drives I tend to look on places with many reviews (such as Amazon) and then read a bunch of reviews. Remember nobody is going to get 5/5 because people who got a lemon, or didn't realize that many of drives sold on Amazon (and other big electronics vendors) are bare drives with no warranty, are the ones who will definitely post about their unhappiness. Models also change and Amazon tends to aggregate its models in reviews, so make sure you're reading a review about a recent item and one that matches your specifications.

I recently bought some bare drives and let myself be talked into a Seagate 6 TB Ironcloud. Seagate used to be tops about 15 years ago, then took a real quality dive about 7 years ago. I wanted a faster drive but it seems everything WD has is 5400 rpm once you start getting larger than 1TB.

Incidentally, what I do is not buy a standard enclosure but use a Voyager docking station. The prices are very reasonable and let me use multiple bare drives with not having to pay for an enclosure for each. I keep many files on archive drives so I can just swap out a drive in half a minute if I need to use another one. Otherwise my backup sits on the dock most of the time.

I'll just point out that the lifehacker article linked earlier is interesting but is 5 years old. That's a long time in the technology world.

Hi Limnos. I was just checking on the internal drive probably while you were typing your post. I had already typed the info below this but yes you are right about a Toshiba inside the OWC case. I agree with your thoughts on Seagate. They seem to now have some of the lower reviews on Amazon and Newegg. Read on for what I was ready to post before I read your comments....
===
I have an empty OWC Mercury Elite- AL Pro case. It is USB 2.0 (and FW 400) but that matches the limits of my system. The only concern I have is if that drive would work well as a Time Machine device? What I mean is, My current external drive (WD MyBook) sleeps and wakes with the machine so it is NOT running constantly. Would this case function in that same way?

If so, the next question becomes what type of internal drive should I put in that case? It would need to be at least 4TB. The drive inside the OWC case I linked earlier at Amazon is a Toshiba PH3400U-1I72 4TB. It has mixed reviews (drive not case). Most negative reviews were about the drive failing right at the 3 year warranty end.

I'd welcome suggestions from the Xymer members as to what 4+ TB drives have been good choices for them. The prices seem to range between $69 (4TB Segate 5400) , $118 (4.0TB Toshiba MG04ACA 7200RPM Enterprise Class), $200 (4TB WD Black 7200).

This conversation is sounding familiar...

_________________
GA-EX58-UD3R Rev. 1.6 FK • Xeon x5650 • NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:31 am 
Offline
Benevolent Dictator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:03 am
Posts: 17708
Limnos makes a very good point on the case & drive, the default 4TB is a Toshiba drive, but my felling without long enough experience to say for sure, but I think a 4TB Toshiba drive in a Mercury elite case is going to last way longer than the best Enterprise drive in a poor case. Will take a few more years to find out on my 4TB bought earlier thisyear.

Beware on buying a drive for your FW400 case, it may have an addressing limit far less than 4 TB.

Skip any 5400 RPM drives.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:49 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:51 pm
Posts: 718
Location: Minnesota, USA
For backup you probably don't need 7200 rpm unless you are doing something really powerful. 5400 rpm is probably okay and I think will run a bit cooler.

For backup I have a 6 TB Seagate Ironcloud. I mostly went with it because I may do some reconfiguring and may want to use it in a boot configuration so I wanted the 7200 rpm flexibility. I also wanted to have both a Time Machine and a Carbon Copy Cloner backup going for a 1 TB boot drive Probably excessive in terms of size but it is hard to find inexpensive, reliable, 7200 4TB drives now. I think one of the complaints was noise but my hearing isn't as good as it used to be and there's enough other fan noise that I don't notice anything. I kind of trusted the guy in the computer store about reliability.

For archiving I don't really care about speed since the drives aren't even attached to the computer except for maybe an hour every two weeks. I have dual 4 TB WD greens. WD doesn't do that model anymore so I won't go into pros and cons. My archive drives are starting to fill up so I bought a pair of 4 TB WD reds to use when they fill up. Seemed to be compromise between price, features and quality. I haven't actually used them yet other than to format them and make sure they weren't DOA.

The WD Greens slept themselves when not in use. That was a cause for complaint by some if they were used as boot drives but didn't matter to me when used for archiving.

The Voyager docking station is supposed to sleep after 15 minutes I think (read the specs on the OWC site). I actually have two and use one for my backup drive and the other for my boot drive (yeah slow, but my whole system is ancient). My computer just finished doing a CCC backup a little while ago. I just got up and touched the bare Seagate drive. It is warm but I don't feel any vibration so I think the dock has it sleeping.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:43 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 8:13 pm
Posts: 11386
Location: Caught between the moon and NYC
Keep in mind OEM external drives aren't typically a SATA drive with a USB to SATA bridge in the case (that used to be the norm, now it's the exception), they're normally unique variants where the USB controller is integrated into the drive's controller. This is done to keep costs down and increase sales of more profitable bare drives. This means WD external drives aren't the same creature as WD internal drives, so judging external reliability based on internal drives isn't a valid metric anymore.

If you get a short or surge and the USB controller is on the drive itself, that typically means the drive's controller - not an easily replaced bridge - takes the brunt of the damage. When you have the drive inside a normal SATA bridge case you can swap the drive into another case and - most of the time - get your data back. If your controller dies you typically have to buy a same-make/model drive and swap controllers and hope that there isn't a manufacturing variance that makes the hardware incompatible with one another.

I'd be willing to bet any drive placed within an aluminum enclosure like OWCs will, all things being equal, outlast a drive placed inside your average all-plastic OEM enclosure. Plastic is an insulator so the drives will run hotter.

In my experience the OEM drives are also configured to spin down as quickly as possible. While there are internal drives that do the same tricks (the now-disco'd WD Greens for instance), in my experience the external drives are like Greens but on steroids - they power down with excessively short delays.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 8:21 pm
Posts: 1288
Location: Burblandia
BDAqua wrote:
Beware on buying a drive for your FW400 case, it may have an addressing limit far less than 4 TB.

Thank you for bringing that bit of detail to my attention BD. You are quite correct...a 2 TB limit on that chipset with older drive case I have.

_________________
GA-EX58-UD3R Rev. 1.6 FK • Xeon x5650 • NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:20 pm 
Offline
Benevolent Dictator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:03 am
Posts: 17708
:welcome: :coffee:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 8:21 pm
Posts: 1288
Location: Burblandia
I hadn't thought of this until now but I do have a docking station that I use for swapping several 2.5 inch drives in and out. It is this model.

I found a WD Red Pro with 5 year warranty for $129. Would that combination function as a Time Machine device? Probably the dock too cheap to trust long term. And maybe it wont sleep which is not good I guess.

_________________
GA-EX58-UD3R Rev. 1.6 FK • Xeon x5650 • NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:07 am 
Offline
Benevolent Dictator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:03 am
Posts: 17708
Looks good!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:17 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:38 pm
Posts: 671
eSata connected drives should sleep.

Not sure about the WD Red, but many of
the newer drives sleep when they want to
whether you want them to or not.

If it's one of those surveillance drives,
then it probably doesn't have the auto
sleep function built in.

_________________
Mac pro 1,1 - Mac pro 5,1 w/Areca Raid - Macbook pro 8,3 - Snow Leopard, Mountain lion and Sierra.
"We are the Messengers between Time and its Keeper."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 8:13 pm
Posts: 11386
Location: Caught between the moon and NYC
Purple is their surveillance line, Red is their NAS line.

Reds should sleep.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 4:59 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 8:21 pm
Posts: 1288
Location: Burblandia
How can I determine what kind of specific hard drive is inside an external case?

This search for a replacement back up drive has become quite annoying. For the cost of the 4 TB Toshiba inside that 0WC Case I can buy an 8 TB WD MyBook, actually it’s about $30 less and they both carry a 3 year warranty. I’d really like to know what Drive is in that case though. Those consumer level WD drives have mixed reviews, but the one that I have that is failing lasted 9 or 10 years. Maybe I got lucky or maybe it’s because I have such light use.

To put a decent 4 TB drive with a 5 year warranty into that OWC case will cost around $200.

It’s a conundrum.(Sorry for wining).

_________________
GA-EX58-UD3R Rev. 1.6 FK • Xeon x5650 • NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:13 pm 
Offline
Benevolent Dictator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:03 am
Posts: 17708
I think most anything from 9-10 years ago will last longer than things made now.

I strongly suggest staying away from WD or Seagate cased drives, my 2 month old failed WD 2 TBs were of course still under Warranty, but why would I want another one even if it ran 2 or3 times as long... LOL


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:59 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 8:13 pm
Posts: 11386
Location: Caught between the moon and NYC
If it's 9 or 10 years old then it's a SATA drive with a bridge.

If you're going to buy a cheap OEM drive then budget two of them and periodically sync them so that when the first fails you can roll over to the 2nd with minimal data loss. At that point the OEM drives aren't all that economical anymore.

As for how to tell what drives are where, you usually can't. I mean, WD cases are going to contain WD drives. Seagate cases are going to contain Seagate drives. LaCie cases are going to include Seagate drives because that's who owns them now.

I seem to recall OWC at one point allowing you to specify which manufacturer's drives was inside your case, although you didn't know precisely which model it was until it showed up. The price varied, it wasn't just a "hey get X versus Y and Z for the same price" - drives that cost more cost... more.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 6:29 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 8:21 pm
Posts: 1288
Location: Burblandia
MonkeyBoy wrote:
If it's 9 or 10 years old then it's a SATA drive with a bridge.

If you're going to buy a cheap OEM drive then budget two of them and periodically sync them so that when the first fails you can roll over to the 2nd with minimal data loss. At that point the OEM drives aren't all that economical anymore.

MB, can you explain that a bit for me? Are you saying my 9 yr. old 3TB WD MyBook is different from what is being sold as a 4 or 8 TB WD MyBook today? They look identical on the outside. If not SATA with a bridge what are the newer ones? Thanks for educating me a bit on this.

I hear the cautionary tone from everyone. I’m built to buy best bang for the buck, but as technology and marketing evolve that sweet spot becomes somewhat elusive. It is unbelievable to me that these external cases provide no info regarding the actual drive contained within.

_________________
GA-EX58-UD3R Rev. 1.6 FK • Xeon x5650 • NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:04 am 
Offline
Benevolent Dictator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:03 am
Posts: 17708
Current WD cased drives have a proprietary USB3 bridge soldered to the SATA drive, if the cheap chipset fails you cannot remove the drive ^ put it in another case.

Specific info is incredibly rare these days, it's been replaced with hype, but assuming you want a USB3 connection on the drive & long lasting...

https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/ME3 ... &gclsrc=ds
https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/ME3 ... &gclsrc=ds
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FD ... UTF8&psc=1

Then choose your own Drive(s) with a 5 year Warranty...

https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/hard-dr ... tal_Caviar
https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/hard-dr ... _Barracuda
https://eshop.macsales.com/item/HGST/0F29610/
https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/hard-dr ... TA/Toshiba


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 10:48 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 8:21 pm
Posts: 1288
Location: Burblandia
OK, I'm convinced to avoid the cheap WD cases. I've got it down to two 4 TB drives on Amazon. A Red Pro for $129 or a Black for $173.

I'm leaning toward Red Pro since it is for Back up.

_________________
GA-EX58-UD3R Rev. 1.6 FK • Xeon x5650 • NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:42 am 
Offline
Benevolent Dictator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:03 am
Posts: 17708
Both look good. :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 8:21 pm
Posts: 1288
Location: Burblandia
BDAqua wrote:
Both look good. :)

Bought the Red Pro for $129. I'll try it first with my dock and see how that goes otherwise it's the OWC case.

Thanks All for the comments. It's sad to see the efforts one must make to find a decent product for a fair price these days.

_________________
GA-EX58-UD3R Rev. 1.6 FK • Xeon x5650 • NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 1:08 pm 
Offline
Benevolent Dictator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:03 am
Posts: 17708
But wait, you won't pay $5,000 for that toothpick, not $4,000, not even $3,000, for just 3 easy payments of $999.99 we'll ship you a 100% wooden toothpick... but wait, we're not through yet, if you call in the next 5 minutes we'll include another 100% wooden toothpick absolutely free... just pay separate shipping & handling!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 1:47 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 8:21 pm
Posts: 1288
Location: Burblandia
BDAqua wrote:
But wait, you won't pay $5,000 for that toothpick, not $4,000, not even $3,000, for just 3 easy payments of $999.99 we'll ship you a 100% wooden toothpick... but wait, we're not through yet, if you call in the next 5 minutes we'll include another 100% wooden toothpick absolutely free... just pay separate shipping & handling!

You had me at Toothpick! :)

_________________
GA-EX58-UD3R Rev. 1.6 FK • Xeon x5650 • NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 35 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group