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 Post subject: Hardware issue?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:25 am 
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My computer wont boot or even post. It does nothing but make a sound each time it attempts to post. I'll try and describe the sound. It is NOT any type of beep and seems like no attempt to convey any official message..it sounds a bit 'grunty'....a little buzzy quality....just a quickish 'UUNTT'! It is hard to locate the specific source of the sound but it just keeps cycling with 'UUNT' with a few seconds between. Her is some additional info...

This happened the first time about a week ago. I opened the case and it seemed like the SSHD drive SATA cable might not be making a great connection. I pushed the cable in more firmly and turned it on ...it made the same sound & I thought in the spur of the moment that maybe the CPU fan was stuck (it didn't seem to move) so I spun it with my finger. The fan did spin up and the computer did boot but honestly I can NOT be certain it had a thing to do with my spinning the fan. The computer worked for several days then the same sound happened again. This time nothing I do seems to have any effect.

I'd love some thoughts on how to proceed....if there is any way forward.

The computer consists of a Gigabyte Z77 ds3h v 1.1 mother board, an intel core i5 3570k CPU, 16GB Corsair XMS3RAM, Corsair CX600 ATX power supply. I used the standard cooling fan that came with the i5 since I didn't over clock anything. I think those are the relevant parts. It has two drives a 1 TB Toshiba for back up and the Seagate SSHD hybrid drive.

I appreciate any guidence on this. I'm stuck!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Hardware issue?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:36 pm 
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I think I've heard such sounds in the past, liker everything powering up for just a second then shutting before shutting down.

My first guess from the symptoms would be a bad capacitor, likely in the PSU.

Do you have a meter to check the PSU output?


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 Post subject: Re: Hardware issue?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:38 pm 
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Try pulling things out of the case and slowly adding them back in one by one. So pull everything out (except the PSU) and then install the RAM, motherboard battery, and video card and see if it powers on. Reseat (unplug, plug) anything connected to the motherboard as well (power, SATA).

It could be the PSU, by minimizing the amount of items you're minimizing power draw. If you have a different video card available you could try that too, again just the minimum number of items for it to POST.

If it successfully POSTs then you add things in one by one and see if it continues to POST. It's possible you'll add everything back and it'll still be fine, in which case it was just a loose connection.

If you add something in and it fails to POST then you know either its the power supply or that item. If its a HD and you have a USB bridge/dock you can plug it into another system and see if it works there. If it fails then you have your culprit, if it works then it's probably the PSU. Could be both the PSU and the last device. This is why I like to keep extra PSUs around, even if they're inside a PC I'm technically not using or can stand to be without for a few days.


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 Post subject: Re: Hardware issue?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:56 pm 
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BD and Monkeyboy, thanks for advice. I'll take apart and rebuild first as a starting point. I do have a multi-meter but not great with how to use it!

Also just fyi, not using a GPU in this rig...using on board intel integrated graphics,


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 Post subject: Re: Hardware issue?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:54 pm 
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That kind of makes it easier then, less to go wrong.

The GPU is integrated into the CPU, worst case you could try reseating the CPU but there's not a whole lot of wiggle room for the CPU to get loose or anything to get into the socket with the current Intel setup.

Does the CPU fan actually spin when you turn it on or does it stay motionless the entire time its powered on?


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 Post subject: Re: Hardware issue?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:57 pm 
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https://www.lifewire.com/how-to-manuall ... er-2626158
https://www.wikihow.com/Check-a-Power-Supply


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 Post subject: Re: Hardware issue?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:54 pm 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
Does the CPU fan actually spin when you turn it on or does it stay motionless the entire time its powered on?

Well the case fan cycles on and off with every sound (presumably the sound correlates with the attempt to post) but iirc the CPU fan seems to remain motionless during the cycling process. I'll have to watch again tomorrow when I get to this project.


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 Post subject: Re: Hardware issue?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:57 pm 
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BDAqua wrote:
https://www.lifewire.com/how-to-manually-test-a-power-supply-with-a-multimeter-2626158
https://www.wikihow.com/Check-a-Power-Supply

Thanks BD! If it gets that far I'll likely take the plunge into one of those tutorials. I hate dealing with electricity though...I'm allergic ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Hardware issue?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:11 pm 
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That's probably normal for Ivy Bridge, my Haswell system here at work does that. It spins at power on, stops when it gets to a certain point during post, only to later start up again after its finished post or close to it. If its stuck in a POST loop then starting and stopping is normal.

Hey, if you have multiple sticks of RAM try sticking just one in. Usually there's a way to only stick a single DIMM in and have it work, but it's usually restricted to a particular slot. Hell, try removing all RAM and see if it blows a POST code. Try resetting the NVRAM/CMOS settings via the motherboard jumper.


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 Post subject: Re: Hardware issue?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:38 pm 
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Here is where my testing stands so far. I disconnected everything & did the simple bent paper clip test with the power supply. I used a fan on one molex connector to create a small load. The power supply fan and the additional fan both worked immediately. I did not test the individual cables with my multi meter yet....but the power supply seemed to be functioning. Next I reconnected the Sata drive and attempted to boot with individual sticks of ram in all possible slots. Still the same issue remained. I did discover that the 'grunty' 'buzzy' sound I tried to describe above was just the DVD drive. It made no difference connected or not. I then replaced the CMOS battery and jumped the jumpers to clear CMOS. Still no boot or post. All the fans, including the CPU fan try to spin up but turn off immediately with the power cycle.

So, not certain what to do next. I guess test the power supply more thoroughly. I don't think it is the problem though. If I'm correct we are down to mother board or CPU. How does one check those components? Is it DIY or do I need to take it to someone to check out? Where does one take something like this? Thanks for sticking with me on this.

BTW, I built this in 2013 and it has been very lightly used. I do not think it has many hours on it. It was for wife initially and then family use.


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 Post subject: Re: Hardware issue?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:47 pm 
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Look for bulging or leaking capacitors on the motherboard, or burn marks on the flat squares (VRMs). If you see either, the mobo is out of commission. If not, then something might be shorting out the circuit causing an immediate POST HALT signal to be sent. This can happen when something metal makes contact with something on the motherboard, usually on the rear side where lots of solder joint pads are exposed.

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 Post subject: Re: Hardware issue?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:54 pm 
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Maybe if I'm not overstepping boundaries I could post some pics of the front and back (top and bottom) of the board?


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 Post subject: Re: Hardware issue?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:39 pm 
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Pretty sure you can do that. If file or image sizes are a problem you could always post links to external sources. I've used shared links on Amazon Drive before (admittedly with some trouble), but venerable Drop Box allows you to create http links to arbitrary files in your folder to share them with others. There are a lot of options.


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 Post subject: Re: Hardware issue?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:46 pm 
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Here is a link to 5 pics of my mother board. After searching the net I do not think the problem is the power supply or ram or even a bad MB. I think it is most likely related to the dual BIOS being messed up. At least the main BIOS is messed up and the backup is not kicking in like it is supposed to. The board looks clean to me top and bottom. I have a series of things to try related to the failing BIOS. First I am going to do a deeper check on the PS. I've got the entire computer taken apart so I'll start testing on a safe static free surface.

Link to 5 pics

Edit: The browsing or viewing option on the linked pic site does not seem to be working well. They can be downloaded in good quality though.


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 Post subject: Re: Hardware issue?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:40 pm 
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Update:

I have tried a variety of proposed solutions for 'Boot Loop' issue related to this mother board and alas nothing has changed. I did test the power supply and confirm that it is functioning within specifications. What's next? Is there some place that can test the mother board and CPU so I at least know if one or the other is malfunctioning? Can mother board be repaired or if it is the problem is it time to replace? Also, there is the fact that the i5 processor is 1155 socket so any replacement (whether CPU or MB) will require socket 1155 compatibility. Is this one of those times when an upgrade is an unpleasant best option under the circumstance? I literally do not know of a single trustworthy computer repair shop in my area.


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 Post subject: Re: Hardware issue?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:40 pm 
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db5owat wrote:
Here is a link to 5 pics of my mother board. After searching the net I do not think the problem is the power supply or ram or even a bad MB. I think it is most likely related to the dual BIOS being messed up. At least the main BIOS is messed up and the backup is not kicking in like it is supposed to. The board looks clean to me top and bottom. I have a series of things to try related to the failing BIOS. First I am going to do a deeper check on the PS. I've got the entire computer taken apart so I'll start testing on a safe static free surface.

Link to 5 pics

Edit: The browsing or viewing option on the linked pic site does not seem to be working well. They can be downloaded in good quality though.


Dual BIOS motherboards usually have a switch on them to change to the backup BIOS. The second BIOS won't kick in until you've flipped the switch to the other position. Edit: Seems yours is one of the early models with auto-backup BIOS functionality instead of actual selectable BIOS functionality.

There is the possibility that the PCH is somehow fried, which would also cause this. You won't be able to see it visually, unfortunately. It's the chipset underneat the big blue heatsink on the mobo. Do you have a different PSU to try this motherboard with just to verify it isn't the power supply? And check to make sure nothing is lodged in any of the connector sockets for things like your USB ports. A single bridged connection would instantly shut d own a machine as it would trigger an electrical fault condition.

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 Post subject: Re: Hardware issue?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:59 am 
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I went and bought a new power supply, a 750 watt corsair. Still did the exact same behavior so at least that verifies the problem is not power supply. Not sure what to do next. I've exhausted my ideas. If my thinking is correct, it is down to either the MB or CPU as the culprit. Is one more likely than the other? Can I get them tested somewhere? Then again there is the question of where does one secure a replacement part for this older ivy bridge 1155 socket system?

MonkeyBoy, just fyi, I PM'd you. Hope that's OK.


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 Post subject: Re: Hardware issue?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:18 pm 
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The only way to verify it isn't the CPU and is the mobo itself is to try the CPU in another LG1155 motherboard. Just out of curiosity, you did make sure that the AUX power supply line next to the CPU was plugged in as well right? That's the square 4-pin one that's supposed to go in just one way (but sometimes can go in the wrong way if the manufacturing tolerances aren't tight enough). Forgetting to plug that cable in as well as the main 20/24 pin supply connector can result in exactly the POST behaviour you're experiencing. It's rare, but I've seen them come loose over time with vibration from the CPU fan being so close if one hasn't really securely clicked it into place.

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 Post subject: Re: Hardware issue?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:58 am 
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Squishy Tia wrote:
The only way to verify it isn't the CPU and is the mobo itself is to try the CPU in another LG1155 motherboard. Just out of curiosity, you did make sure that the AUX power supply line next to the CPU was plugged in as well right? That's the square 4-pin one that's supposed to go in just one way (but sometimes can go in the wrong way if the manufacturing tolerances aren't tight enough). Forgetting to plug that cable in as well as the main 20/24 pin supply connector can result in exactly the POST behaviour you're experiencing. It's rare, but I've seen them come loose over time with vibration from the CPU fan being so close if one hasn't really securely clicked it into place.

That is certainly good advice and yes I did check that connection thoroughly. My board has pretty tight connections on both 24 pin and 8 pin that click clearly into place. Thank you for the suggestion.


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 Post subject: Re: Hardware issue?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:07 pm 
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I took a risk and bought a new mother board hoping it was not the CPU. Have not rec'd it yet. It is a Gigabyte GA Z77X UD5H

I need to declare this rig a hackintosh and as such slightly modify this thread. So I address the following questions to the only hackintosh expert of which I am aware on this site...Squishy Tia!

When I built this system I used parts from the TonyMac site Buyer's Guide (7 series ivy bridge) - So the parts were Z77 DS3H MB, intel core i5 3570k CPU, 16GB Corsair XMS3RAM, Corsair CX600 ATX power supply. I used the Mac Pro 3,1 System definition and it worked fine. I had it at El Capitan (10.11.6 when the board (I think) stopped working. I could download/upgrade from App store with no issue but never tried Facetime or imessage. I just didn't want to fuss with those as they were not going to be used on this system.

The questions are:
1. Assuming the new MB solves the boot loop problem, should I change the system definition?
2. Does the system definition relate to the actual performance/function of the system?
3.Mac Pro 3,1 never seemed like a great match for the original components but was the default system deff. What system is best suited for this era of system and components.
4.Does it seem likely that Sierra will be doable on this system?
5. I think the board I bought is on the BIOS F4. Here is the list of BIOS updates available. Should I update?

I realize that the TonyMac site might seem like a more appropriate place to post these questions, but I rarely get responses to my hackintosh questions posted there due in part to what I call the "db5owat Zone". Many of my questions fall into that zone as depicted below:

Attachment:
three-circle-venn-diagram-black.jpg
three-circle-venn-diagram-black.jpg [ 117.89 KiB | Viewed 1782 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: Hardware issue?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:44 pm 
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Also any thoughts on Ozmosis modification I have been seeing more of?


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 Post subject: Re: Hardware issue?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:17 am 
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db5owat wrote:
I took a risk and bought a new mother board hoping it was not the CPU. Have not rec'd it yet. It is a Gigabyte GA Z77X UD5H

I need to declare this rig a hackintosh and as such slightly modify this thread. So I address the following questions to the only hackintosh expert of which I am aware on this site...Squishy Tia!

When I built this system I used parts from the TonyMac site Buyer's Guide (7 series ivy bridge) - So the parts were Z77 DS3H MB, intel core i5 3570k CPU, 16GB Corsair XMS3RAM, Corsair CX600 ATX power supply. I used the Mac Pro 3,1 System definition and it worked fine. I had it at El Capitan (10.11.6 when the board (I think) stopped working. I could download/upgrade from App store with no issue but never tried Facetime or imessage. I just didn't want to fuss with those as they were not going to be used on this system.

The questions are:
1. Assuming the new MB solves the boot loop problem, should I change the system definition?
2. Does the system definition relate to the actual performance/function of the system?
3.Mac Pro 3,1 never seemed like a great match for the original components but was the default system deff. What system is best suited for this era of system and components.
4.Does it seem likely that Sierra will be doable on this system?
5. I think the board I bought is on the BIOS F4. Here is the list of BIOS updates available. Should I update?

I realize that the TonyMac site might seem like a more appropriate place to post these questions, but I rarely get responses to my hackintosh questions posted there due in part to what I call the "db5owat Zone". Many of my questions fall into that zone as depicted below:

Attachment:
three-circle-venn-diagram-black.jpg


1) No. Keep the same system definition, assuming the same motherboard model. You shouldn't need to change anything at all if the motherboard is exactly the same.

2) The system definition relates to what the OS expects to find inside the system. For you, a MP3,1 sysdef works, though obviously you'll have to deal with Apple's restrictions with their installers going forward with High Sierra, etc.

3) Unless you have a Haswell/Broadwell system, the MP3,1 is the best sysdef for your case use scenario, though you can also try iMac14,2 and see if that works. Always make a backup of your clover install before making changes though. And if you change your sysdef, you may also need to redo the SMBIOS Serial number and Rt Variables MLB number in Clover. If you have them written down or in a text clipping, you can easily transfer them to the new clover configuration setup. This allows you to keep any previous ability to use iMessages as the OS will see your serial number and MLB number as a match to what you've used before. Your "About this Mac" will display will show something like "Mac Pro (Early 2008)" in its system name line, but internally it will go off of your serial #, sysdef, and MLB number.

4) Sierra, yes, though if doing Sierra or later, you will need to make that change to iMac14,2 sysdef. For the most part that is the recommended path going forward and is required for 10.12 and later.

5) If the new board has a newer BIOS, and you previously created a DSDT for clover to use, you'll need to go through the steps to create a clean DSDT again and redo any patches such as Toleda's HDMI audio patch for Intel, AMD, or nVidia (these DSDT patches survive OS updates and let you use native AppleHDA if using HDMI audio). Of course, even if the new board uses the exact same BIOS firmware, it's advised to recreate your DSDT just in case something did change internally (motherboards do have revisions just like software does).

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 Post subject: Re: Hardware issue?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:51 am 
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Squishy Tia wrote:

1) No. Keep the same system definition, assuming the same motherboard model. You shouldn't need to change anything at all if the motherboard is exactly the same.

2) The system definition relates to what the OS expects to find inside the system. For you, a MP3,1 sysdef works, though obviously you'll have to deal with Apple's restrictions with their installers going forward with High Sierra, etc.

3) Unless you have a Haswell/Broadwell system, the MP3,1 is the best sysdef for your case use scenario, though you can also try iMac14,2 and see if that works. Always make a backup of your clover install before making changes though. And if you change your sysdef, you may also need to redo the SMBIOS Serial number and Rt Variables MLB number in Clover. If you have them written down or in a text clipping, you can easily transfer them to the new clover configuration setup. This allows you to keep any previous ability to use iMessages as the OS will see your serial number and MLB number as a match to what you've used before. Your "About this Mac" will display will show something like "Mac Pro (Early 2008)" in its system name line, but internally it will go off of your serial #, sysdef, and MLB number.

4) Sierra, yes, though if doing Sierra or later, you will need to make that change to iMac14,2 sysdef. For the most part that is the recommended path going forward and is required for 10.12 and later.

5) If the new board has a newer BIOS, and you previously created a DSDT for clover to use, you'll need to go through the steps to create a clean DSDT again and redo any patches such as Toleda's HDMI audio patch for Intel, AMD, or nVidia (these DSDT patches survive OS updates and let you use native AppleHDA if using HDMI audio). Of course, even if the new board uses the exact same BIOS firmware, it's advised to recreate your DSDT just in case something did change internally (motherboards do have revisions just like software does).


Finally got the new mother board. It posted right away so it must have been an issue with the former board. The new board is a different board (old GA z77 ds3h, the new GA z77x ud5h). Since I am planning on updating to Sierra and also getting messages and facetime working I'm going to start a fresh hackintosh build. From what I've looked at, it seems the closest machine is the imac 13,2 so I guess I will start there.


Thanks all for the help.


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 Post subject: Re: Hardware issue?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:02 am 
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Don't use iMac13,2. Use 14,2. It's the most compatible sysdef out there and registers itself properly for things like USB ports, etc. Your sysdef does not have to match the CPU you're using, as obviously a sysdef of MP3,1 did not match your hackie's CPU so far.

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 Post subject: Re: Hardware issue?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:32 am 
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Squishy Tia wrote:
Don't use iMac13,2. Use 14,2. It's the most compatible sysdef out there and registers itself properly for things like USB ports, etc. Your sysdef does not have to match the CPU you're using, as obviously a sysdef of MP3,1 did not match your hackie's CPU so far.

That is great to know. Thank you for that information. I always assumed the socket type and CPU type was the most important and relevant determinant in deciding on system deffinition but you are quite right the Mac 3,1 had no relationship with the ivy bridge components and it was a near perfect hackintosh. I guess in the back of my mind I wondered if that 'mismatch' somehow caused the mother board to fail??? I have no basis for this thought other than I have no other reason for the board suddenly failing and I do not want the new board to fail if there is some correlation with system definition.

Thanks for all your input Squishy Tia. It has been very helpful.


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