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When http://bbs.xlr8yourmac.com is down (i.e. always)
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 3:43 pm 
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Since upgrading I have a couple of odd little things happening. On some sites links don't appear until I restart (see ex. pics). On other sites like Xfinity I can't get past spinning 'beachball-like' thingy to get to my account. Google Chrome does NOT have these issues. I prefer FF when it works properly. Any clues whats causing the poor behavior?

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Xfinity thingy...
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:02 pm 
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49 is the first version of Firefox to adopt Chrome's executable model, where every tab you open launches a new copy of the program.

If you go into about:config, change browser.tabs.remote.autostart, browser.tabs.remote.force-enable, and browser.tabs.remote.autostart.2 to disable, then restart Firefox. You can then see if the issue is resolved or not.

Another option would be to disable all add-ons and see if the problem gets resolved, as many need to be updated to work with the new normal.

I found a bug report where they noticed a lot of their nightly users had disabled multiprocess, so they created that .2 key as a way of forcing it to be enabled despite the user's wishes to the contrary. :fishsmack:

I see Apple isn't the only company who doesn't want to listen to their users.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 6:59 am 
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Thanks MBoy. Still no difference I'm afraid. I can get the links back sometimes by restarting but any attempt to connect with Xfinity (Comcast) fails with unending spining. No problem with Chrome or Safari. So...the easy answer is switch to Chrome or Safari...but I've been using Firefox for so long I just hate to switch. Although, it sounds a little like there is little difference between Chrome and Firefox these days (other than the fact that Firefox won't function properly for me).

Any other ideas? What might Firefox block that Chrome or Safari doesn't?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 9:00 am 
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I'm not really sure what's happening, but all I can say is I threw in the towel when the 46 appeared, and I've been using the 45 ESR (now 45.3.0 45.4.0) ever since. This avoids all of Mozilla's "improvements." I've had no problems whatsoever. The 45 ESR should be good through mid-17. After that, it's anyone's guess whether Firefox will be usable at all. From what I can tell, it will probably be a disaster.

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/o ... tions/faq/


Last edited by WZZZ on Sat Oct 01, 2016 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 9:12 am 
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Disabling add-ons would be the thing I would have suggested. I have discovered with CenturyLink's website that getting access to some of their basic help pages requires I disable AdBlock Ghostery, Badger and similar things. I gave up using NoScript a year ago because just about every site has something that stops working when I use it.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 9:21 am 
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WZZZ wrote:
I'm not really sure what's happening, but all I can say is I threw in the towel when the 46 appeared, and I've been using the 45 ESR (now 45.3.0) ever since. This avoids all of Mozilla's "improvements." I've had no problems whatsoever. The 45 ESR should be good through mid-17. After that, it's anyone's guess whether Firefox will be usable at all. From what I can tell, it will probably be a disaster.

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/o ... tions/faq/

Thanks WZZZ. 45 ESR has the same behavior unfortunately. Something specific with Firefox for sure but I just can not locate whats missing or what is doing the blocking.
Limnos wrote:
Disabling add-ons would be the thing I would have suggested. I have discovered with CenturyLink's website that getting access to some of their basic help pages requires I disable AdBlock Ghostery, Badger and similar things. I gave up using NoScript a year ago because just about every site has something that stops working when I use it.


Thanks Limnos. I'm in the same boat with you regarding NoScript. I do have Adblock and pop ups blocked but removing them both has no effect (even after restarting FF). I'm really at a loss. I guess I'm going to have to use Chrome or Safari for the things that don't work on FireFox. I hate being in that position. Not that it's a terrible imposition, I just hate the feeling something is wrong. What else is wrong that I am yet unaware :confused:


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 9:24 am 
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To see if it's an addon, open in Safe Mode: Option key at open. This disables all addons.

EDIT: or temporarily test with a new, clean profile. One of these should work

/Applications/Firefox.app/Contents/MacOS/firefox --ProfileManager

/Applications/Firefox.app/Contents/MacOS/firefox -P


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 9:54 am 
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WZZZ wrote:
To see if it's an addon, open in Safe Mode: Option key at open. This disables all addons.

EDIT: or temporarily test with a new, clean profile. One of these should work

/Applications/Firefox.app/Contents/MacOS/firefox --ProfileManager

/Applications/Firefox.app/Contents/MacOS/firefox -P

Interesting results. Opening in safe mode seems to have no ultimate effect although there was a message I have not experienced before something akin to 'we are having some difficulty accessing your account information'...something like that. I was then presented with the same endless spinning. I opened with Chrome to just re-verify it was me and not them...Chrome worked fine.

Next I open with a new default profile and it attempted to connect me to my account (I didn't proceed because it a whole process, as though it was your first time etc.) I'm fairly certain it would have been successful. So profile seems to be the issue. What now...I hate to start from scratch....but if necessary...


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 11:10 am 
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This should get you started for moving important items from one profile to another. Addons will have to be reinstalled--take screenshots of the current ones, or enter "about:support," where they'll all be listed and take a screenshot of that. I have a ton of addons, and that's one of the most painful parts of going to a new profile. If you have many, start by moving only the really important ones. Moving the other stuff over is a piece of cake.

If you use Classic Them Restorer, make a note of all the settings you use there.

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/re ... ld-profile

You can easily switch back and forth from the old profile to the new one, and take your time doing this. You won't have to lose the old profile.

"TEST" is my current profile (you can name the new profile anything you like.) I had to go through all of this a while ago. "Default" was one I never got rid of on this Mini, but it's corrupt and I never use it. If "TEST" gets corrupted, I'd just have to create a new one. Unfortunately, Firefox profiles become corrupt too often-- the cause could be just one addon, but if it's that and you have 32 addons (what I have), and the trouble is random, it becomes almost impossible to troubleshoot. Far easier just to start fresh.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 9:53 pm 
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Do you have any kind of antivirus installed? Many of them will install weird little proxy servers for web browsers that sometimes cause problems like this.

Other than that you could check under plug-ins and see if there's any installed that you don't recognize.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 6:50 am 
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Guys, thanks much for the help! I'm back with full function. I had a couple of suggestions that would work and ended up doing a "refresh" which is an option when evoking safe start (option key). It seemed like the quickest way to get back to familiar territory with the least effort since I have so few add-ins and plugins. I wish I knew where the specific issue was but at least it's now working properly.

Thanks again!


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 7:58 am 
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Yeah, a "Refresh" is basically a new profile. Sounds very simple, and it was in your case, but for many with a much more complicated configuration, like myself (although I know better), it can leave them ready to throw boiling water on whoever the clown was at Mozilla who used that term. Makes it sound so effortless, like some kind of deodorant air spray.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 7:44 am 
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Yeah, it used to be called reset profile, which seems more accurate for what it actually does vs. refresh.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 8:17 am 
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WZZZ wrote:
Yeah, a "Refresh" is basically a new profile. Sounds very simple, and it was in your case, but for many with a much more complicated configuration, like myself (although I know better), it can leave them ready to throw boiling water on whoever the clown was at Mozilla who used that term. Makes it sound so effortless, like some kind of deodorant air spray.

MonkeyBoy wrote:
Yeah, it used to be called reset profile, which seems more accurate for what it actually does vs. refresh.

Well I don't know, it seems to me my Firefox has a new 'extra fresh evergreen' fragrance. Removed add-on, added roll-on. :coffee:


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 12:07 am 
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For over a year I am been using FF ESR but am becoming increasingly frustrated with it, and have to resort to Safari at times to allow video functionality. I have No-script, Adblocker, Ghostery and Redirect Cleaner (which no longer seems to work) and with those few, though admittedly heavy handed addons, some websites no longer show video, but they work via Safari, (which has only Adblocker, and Ghostery). I thought it was just the ads in the video causing the problems, but it seems NoScipt is the problem. For one email to which I had subscribed, and no longer wanted, I chose Unsubscribe, which opened FF to just a blank page.
Today I get another email from that company, copied the Unsubscribe URL to a Safari window, and voila the page opens full of info, and with an unsubscribe button confirmation. So No-script is the straw that breaks the fox's back.

It would be nice to have one good browser, instead of having to use two suboptimal ones. Safari can gobble 2.3GB of RAM and then beachball. bah humbug!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:17 am 
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Don't see why the browser is getting blamed. Easy enough to disable NoScript, or when needed "Temporarily allow all this page," which can't be any worse than Safari, which is by default allowing all scripts.

For Redirect Cleaner, check your e-mail.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:53 am 
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I've never heard a thorough explanation why Firefox is better (safer?) than Chrome or Safari or any other for that matter. I'm not trained in the 'behind the scenes' operations related to browser use and function so in that sense I'm a novice. When looking online the browser comparisons often center around speed or visual appeal. Is Firefox truly safer? If so, why is it the case?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:37 am 
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Don't know about Chrome, but at least vs. Safari, it gets updated/patched for vulnerabilities much more frequently than Safari.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:42 am 
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And Chrome catalogs all your doings, & used to at least catalog all the files on your drives.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:39 am 
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Firefox's add-ons can make it safer than either of the other two. Firefox's add-on ecosystem has far more options than either Chrome or Safari.

Another relevant fact is that if you're on a Mac you're likely going to use Safari. As a result anyone who wants to get into your Mac is going to target Safari. By using Firefox the Safari exploits won't work.

Apple stops updating Safari the minute they stop supporting your OS, that means you have 3 years of Safari support and then you're on your own. If your bread and butter paying job depends on an app that doesn't work properly in a newer OS, this is a pretty big deal.

Personally I can't handle noscript. Every time I install it I spend my entire time trying to get websites to work, and by the second day I'm tired of fighting it. I suspect if you disable noscript your issues will be gone, since that's the one thing missing from your Safari setup.

Chrome pretty much reports everything you're doing in the browser back to Google in one form or another. Its not leaking anything you type in but sites you visit and how long you stay on them and how you got there, that kind of thing. Chromium is an option to avoid the Google mothership but then you don't get their Flash plugin, so you have to either live without Flash or manually take care of installing & updating a PPAPI version of Flash for it. And that's assuming you trust the person who packaged up Chromium into an app for you.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:58 pm 
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Very informative stuff gentlemen (one presumes). I'm wondering why the future of Firefox seems so grim to some folks?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:22 pm 
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Mozilla is currently making changes to the internals of Firefox that affect compatibility with existing addons and other under-the-hood changes that fundamentally alter the way Firefox interacts with the Internet, other processes, and itself. It added advertisements and data collection, unless you were careful to turn those off. It changed your default search engine to %*&#ing Yahoo! without telling you. Recent human interface changes seem to boil down to blindly following bad UI trends like replacing menus with a hamburger (this is worse if you're on Linux or Windows) and generally making Firefox look like a feeble clone of Google Chrome, which made some of us wonder why we shouldn't just use Google Chrome if that's the interface we wanted. At the same time Mozilla has added a number of very questionable features like pockets (whatever those are) and video chatting that at best no one was asking for and could have been handled by addons only to semi-reverse course months later, and were at worst cynical cash grabs or security holes. All of this was going on at the time Mozilla lost Google's revenue stream, making it feel like the organization was at once rudderless, desperate, and disdainful of its users.

Things have turned around a little bit in recent months. Many of the underhood changes really are necessary, even if they'll be a little bit painful for some people to adapt to, and Mozilla's leaders have given glimmers of hope that it's no longer willing to blindly sell out in shear panicked desperation. UI changes continue to be pointless and obnoxious, but I'm cautiously optimistic that Mozilla won't try adding advertisements, pockets, etc., again. All told, I'm in wait-and-see mode.

- Anonymous


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:33 pm 
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Anonymous wrote:
Mozilla is currently making changes to the internals of Firefox that affect compatibility with existing addons and other under-the-hood changes that fundamentally alter the way Firefox interacts with the Internet, other processes, and itself. It added advertisements and data collection, unless you were careful to turn those off. It changed your default search engine to %*&#ing Yahoo! without telling you. Recent human interface changes seem to boil down to blindly following bad UI trends like replacing menus with a hamburger (this is worse if you're on Linux or Windows) and generally making Firefox look like a feeble clone of Google Chrome, which made some of us wonder why we shouldn't just use Google Chrome if that's the interface we wanted. At the same time Mozilla has added a number of very questionable features like pockets (whatever those are) and video chatting that at best no one was asking for and could have been handled by addons only to semi-reverse course months later, and were at worst cynical cash grabs or security holes. All of this was going on at the time Mozilla lost Google's revenue stream, making it feel like the organization was at once rudderless, desperate, and disdainful of its users.

Things have turned around a little bit in recent months. Many of the underhood changes really are necessary, even if they'll be a little bit painful for some people to adapt to, and Mozilla's leaders have given glimmers of hope that it's no longer willing to blindly sell out in shear panicked desperation. UI changes continue to be pointless and obnoxious, but I'm cautiously optimistic that Mozilla won't try adding advertisements, pockets, etc., again. All told, I'm in wait-and-see mode.

- Anonymous

Again, very instructive. Your explanation places me in that same wait-and-see posture although I'm not certain what I would switch to given the current state of the alternatives. One hopes for decent options down the road.

Thanks to all for adding to the conversation. At least I feel better informed.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:25 pm 
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WZZZ wrote:
Don't see why the browser is getting blamed. Easy enough to disable NoScript, or when needed "Temporarily allow all this page," which can't be any worse than Safari, which is by default allowing all scripts.

For Redirect Cleaner, check your e-mail.

Thanks WZZZ for the link. It has restored that function.
"Temporarily allow all this page," does not activate; the icon does not change to white. The options within Noscript are too obscure for me to be workable. I'll try reinstalling it again.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 10:13 am 
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Anonymous wrote:
Many of the underhood changes really are necessary, even if they'll be a little bit painful for some people to adapt to...

Are you referring to the new Web Extensions API? If so, can you please elaborate on why you think that is necessary. It's been my understanding that the new Web Ext. API is going to wipe out many addons/extensions, particularly still useful, older ones, and those of developers who are unwilling to completely rewrite their addons, which this new F8&^%**#ing Chrome compatible API will make necessary, and severely limit the performance of the addons of developers who are willing to suffer a complete rewrite.

So, unless there's something I'm unaware of, this will not only be painful, but catastrophic, as one of the things that drew me to Firefox in the first place was its extensive collection of highly useful and security enhancing addons


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