XYMer's Home away from Home

When http://bbs.xlr8yourmac.com is down (i.e. always)
Privacy Policy
It is currently Thu Aug 06, 2020 4:56 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Keyboard's gone nuts
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:41 am
Posts: 1011
Location: Halfway between New York City and Atlantic City
The connector on the new keyboard I have to buy is a USB type C. Is that what my Mac mini (and typical USB hubs) have?

_________________
_____________________
MacMini 2.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 16 GB RAM, OS 10.12.6


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Keyboard's gone nuts
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:52 pm 
Offline
Benevolent Dictator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:03 am
Posts: 17806
https://www.amazon.com/stores/page/1FC4 ... e_td_brand

https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/TCC ... &gclsrc=ds


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Keyboard's gone nuts
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:41 am
Posts: 1011
Location: Halfway between New York City and Atlantic City
Thanks BD. I suppose it could be worse, but I won't get the new keyboard until Tuesday. Amon4g man4y4 oth4er th4i4n4gs,4 i4t i4ns4erts th4e n4umeral four where it shouldn't. Must log off now due to storm.

_________________
_____________________
MacMini 2.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 16 GB RAM, OS 10.12.6


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Keyboard's gone nuts
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2009 2:15 pm
Posts: 6922
Location: NYC
Looks like a bad case of keyboard with Tourette's to me.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Keyboard's gone nuts
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:51 pm
Posts: 737
Location: Minnesota, USA
Uh, make sure you get the right thing. It isn't completely clear from your post what kind the keyboard has and what kind your computer has. Newer Apple computers only come with USB-C (the rounded plug) and need an adapter like those BDAqua linked where you have USB-C female on the computer and want to attach an old peripheral with male USB-A/B such as an old keyboard or thumb drive. It is possible, however, you need the reverse kind of adapter if you have an old computer with female USB-A/B on the computer and a very new model keyboard with USB-C male.

Another thing to consider at times is speed, particularly if involving serious data transfer. In your particular case this isn't critical but some adapters may only provide USB2 speeds even if the computer and peripheral is capable of USB3 speeds. I needed for a short while an adapter for a USB-C computer that would work for multiple USB-A/B devices and found a 3 port one for under $3. However, only one port offered USB3 speeds. It didn't matter in my case but something to note when purchasing adapters.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Keyboard's gone nuts
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:31 pm 
Offline
Benevolent Dictator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:03 am
Posts: 17806
Thanks Limnos, I did consider that but eliminated links adapters the other way around when I could find no KBs with USB-C cords.

I wonder if Apple profits another $Billion every time they eliminate a port from a new mac?

Any odds on when we see USB-C replaced by a new standard?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Keyboard's gone nuts
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 5:05 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:41 am
Posts: 1011
Location: Halfway between New York City and Atlantic City
WZZZ wrote:
Looks like a bad case of keyboard with Tourette's to me.

A perfect diagnosis! Ha! The symptoms seem to be improving, in that I don't get random characters anymore, but some keys still don't work.

For the curious, yes, I seem to have caused this. You may remember my asking about cleaning the aluminum keyboard a week or so ago. BD had suggested using alcohol, and I immediately thought it a great suggestion, because the alcohol would quickly evaporate. I first disconnected the keyboard, then moistened a gauze pad with alcohol (nowhere near the point where it was dripping) and began gently rubbing the keyboard face. It wasn't really all that grimy to begin with, so it cleaned up very quickly.

But, when I saw the keyboard was having issues, I realized, in hindsight, that I at least should have held the keyboard face down while cleaning it, to prevent even the smallest amount of liquid from running inside.

The issues the keyboard was having initially were much, much worse than they are now. I thought the thing was immediately history. As time went by, though, things began to improve, leading me to believe whatever alcohol liquid had gotten inside was still evaporating.

A new keyboard and USB-C adapter will arrive Tuesday morning.

_________________
_____________________
MacMini 2.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 16 GB RAM, OS 10.12.6


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Keyboard's gone nuts
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 6:39 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:51 pm
Posts: 737
Location: Minnesota, USA
Several thoughts come to mind.

Depending upon your source of alcohol, it might not be 100%. Pharmaceutical rubbing alcohol certainly isn't. Not to bomb you with Chemistry 101 (which I did 45 years ago), but the whole issue of electrical conductivity can vary greatly depending upon if you have pure substances of if they have other things mixed in with them. For example, people often think of electricity and water being dangerous, but distilled water does not conduct electricity.

Alcohol might attack something inside the keyboard that forms a seal or performs some function. I know alcohol in gasoline isn't good for older cars with rubber seals because it dries out the rubber. It won't attack metal and shouldn't hurt most plastics but I don't know what's inside a modern keyboard. Maybe something there that is sensitive to alcohol? The really nice thing about the old ones was you could pull off the keys and directly view the workings.

Any kind of cleaning with liquid in the normal position for a keyboard runs the risk of loosening crud, but then having that lump of crud fall deeper into the keyboard.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Keyboard's gone nuts
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:05 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2009 2:15 pm
Posts: 6922
Location: NYC
There are instructions in various places for removing the keys from an aluminum keyboard. Best to use model # when searching. Doesn't look all that difficult. But proceed with care.

EDIT: either A1243 MB110LL/A or /B

Seeing different recommendations for cleaning after removing key.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Keyboard's gone nuts
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 4:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 8:10 pm
Posts: 763
My best guess is that Mike washed debris into the keyboard, I have one iteration of the disposable
alu apple kb that came with a used iMac I purchased and I see it wouldn't take much to to gunk up those kb's.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Keyboard's gone nuts
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 11:34 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 7:59 pm
Posts: 2825
Location: home
Please note that it is impossible to get 100% alcohol. Or at least make it stay that way. The moisture in air will seep to the liquid.

Therefore one should drink alcohol as soon as possible! :coffee: Did wet work with molecular biology once. 96% is the maximum concentration sold, so there's 4% of water before one opens the container. I bet the cleaning solutions would be close to 70%, that is what we used to clean laboratory surfaces. Best for solving all kind of stuff, as water does it's stuff together with ethanol.

I would guess a short exposure to alcohol would not damage plastics, but I got my degree in molecular biology, so not sure about it.

Edit: There is this possibility to make 99.5% ethanol or even stronger, but in practice it does not make any sense, if it is in contact with air and the water moisture in it. I'm just guessing same applies to propanol and isopropanol, but they taste so bad. :badteeth: By the way they are not used in biolabs, only ethanol is in use there.

Edit2: Quora has 'That depends. What’s on the metal? Isopropanol is good for cleaning away mildly polar contaminants like marker ink and pressure sensitive adhesives found in consumer products. It is also good as a topical antiseptic and is suitable for cleaning and disinfecting earrings and other piercing jewelry. If you want to clean something like rust off of metal, isopropanol is not going to help much; you’ll need something much more abrasive followed by a protectant to halt the oxidation process.'

https://www.quora.com/Is-isopropyl-alcohol-good-for-cleaning-metal

I would consider alcohols to speed up the drying process after cleaning a keyboard with water. Of course one has to disassemble them completely for that. Easy to do with the cheap membrane based ones, that regularly try to suck up my beer. :oops: I.e.sticky keys problem.

_________________
Escaping Special Character


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Keyboard's gone nuts
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:37 pm 
Offline
Benevolent Dictator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:03 am
Posts: 17806
You Quack me up miero! :)

For rusty Keyboards I recommend Marvel Mystery Oil.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Keyboard's gone nuts
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:49 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:41 am
Posts: 1011
Location: Halfway between New York City and Atlantic City
Limnos: This was retail 70% isopropyl alcohol.

Jimcha: Entirely possible I washed some debris into the keyboard; even though I tried to use as little alcohol as possible, I was stupid not to have held the keyboard face down while wiping it.

Miero: The only "dirt" on the keyboard (keycaps and aluminum face plate) would've been whatever smudgy skin oils and debris that accumulates while using the keyboard. I drink only water, and I've never spilled even that into a keyboard.

But, normal practice for me was to occasionally hold the keyboard upside down and, while turning it to various angles, gently rap the underside of the keyboard to shake out any dust, etc. that may have found its way under the key caps. I would follow this with some compressed air.

I'm convinced I could've avoided this had I held the keyboard face down while wiping it (and maybe using a bit less alcohol). :oops:

_________________
_____________________
MacMini 2.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 16 GB RAM, OS 10.12.6


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Keyboard's gone nuts
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:41 am
Posts: 1011
Location: Halfway between New York City and Atlantic City
My new keyboard, the Xcellon KBM-A2US, arrived June 9th and, today, July 3, I noticed that the letters on the A and E keys are already rubbed halfway off and will soon be gone. It took years for the original Apple keyboard to develop that problem. What a disappointment, but I'm not at all surprised at the low quality.

I suppose my only alternative (if I want better quality) will be an Apple wireless keyboard. I see, in the questions about the Apple Magic Keyboard on B&H Photo's website, it appears the keyboard can used in a wired mode. I'll check with B&H about getting an exchange; I've reported my disappointment with Xcellon.

(I like shopping at B&H. Their prices are good and their fulfillment center is not too far from me.)

_________________
_____________________
MacMini 2.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 16 GB RAM, OS 10.12.6


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Keyboard's gone nuts
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:19 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 8:07 pm
Posts: 2854
Location: Inside Flatus Maximus
Heh. I got my XLR cables for my prepro from B&H. Had to go with Blue Jeans Cable for the XLR splitters for bi-amping my Polk RTi-A9s though, but the combo was worth it. B&H had some good deals on reputable XLRs at the time so I couldn't pass them up.

_________________
Official Mac Tech Support Forum Cookie™ (Mint Chocolate Chip)
Guaranteed tasty; Potentially volatile when dipped in WWIII Forum Syrup®
Caution: This cookie bites back.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Keyboard's gone nuts
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:37 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:41 am
Posts: 1011
Location: Halfway between New York City and Atlantic City
Tia, after reading your comment, I realized I didn't know much about B&H except that they've been around for a while. So I found out. And was duly impressed. Watch the two short videos:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/find/HelpCenter/AboutUs.jsp

_________________
_____________________
MacMini 2.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 16 GB RAM, OS 10.12.6


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Keyboard's gone nuts
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:12 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 11, 2019 6:52 pm
Posts: 557
Location: New York City
Funny story... I have always used a major PIA method, q-tips and alcohol to clean my keyboard (extended, wired, chicklet apple oem). About a year ago, I came across some 99% on amazon and figured it might be faster/better than the 70% I had been using, so I bought it. Turns out the 70% was the one that was faster and more through. Apparently, whatever else they out in the 70% stuff helped out a lot. Fortunately, my 70% is about ⅔ full and my keyboard is starting to look a tad grimy...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Keyboard's gone nuts
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:39 pm 
Offline
Benevolent Dictator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:03 am
Posts: 17806
Pour a capful of the 70% & dip the Q-tips in the cap,


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Keyboard's gone nuts
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 11, 2019 6:52 pm
Posts: 557
Location: New York City
That's what I should do, I have been dipping them into the bottle itself... BUT only one time, when it gets black, in the trash it goes (there ARE 2 on each stick).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Keyboard's gone nuts
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:15 pm 
Offline
Benevolent Dictator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:03 am
Posts: 17806
:)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Keyboard's gone nuts
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:43 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 8:13 pm
Posts: 11436
Location: Caught between the moon and NYC
I read once that distillations <99% work better precisely because they have more water in them. Water is the universal solvent, though it sometimes needs something like soap to break down some substances.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Keyboard's gone nuts
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:46 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:41 am
Posts: 1011
Location: Halfway between New York City and Atlantic City
The new keyboard, the Xcellon KBM-A2US, arrived June 9. I can't say if it was immediately, but certainly shortly after, that I noticed the imprint of the letters and symbols on the key caps could be felt. It appears to be a thin application of ink or paint. But I didn't give it a second thought.

But, after only three weeks use, the imprint on the A and E key caps were beginning to disappear. Today, exactly one month after delivery, the A is barely a ghost and the E is merely three short hyphens. It took at least seven years for that to begin happening on the Apple keyboard.

I posted a review of the keyboard on its page on the website of B&H Photo, where I'd bought it, rating it two of five stars. I clearly stated there was not a thing wrong with the functioning of the keyboard, but my low rating was a reflection of a lack of attention to detail and a poor design (it was either not considered that such a thin application of ink or paint, unprotected by a clear layer, would wear off quickly – or it was considered "good enough").

Xcellon was also notified of the problem. And, after reading my review on B&H, they reached out to me. I sent a photo showing the keys, and they responded by offering to replace the keyboard, claiming that the issue will have been addressed in a new shipment that would be available in several months, or that they would approve a refund from B&H.

My only reason for opting for the Xcellon keyboard was because I didn't realize the Apple Magic wireless keyboard did not have to be operated in a wireless mode. While wireless is handy for some people, I just didn't want yet another device for which I'd have to replace batteries. And that conclusion was reached before learning that the battery in the Magic keyboard is rechargeable with the supplied cable, which can also be used to run in wired mode.

B&H has already sent me a prepaid RMA shipping label, and they'll apply the credit for the Xcellon keyboard toward the Apple keyboard. I have to say, I am impressed by the speedy responsive from both companies. This is how dealing with manufacturers and retailers used to be. How refreshing.

———
(for those interested, a sub-story on the topic of product support)

When I said "this is how dealing with manufacturers and retailers used to be," I refer to the period before the late 1990s.

The small ad agency I'd co-founded owned an HP plain paper fax machine that was, maybe, a couple of years old. The paper feed for incoming faxes would often and easily jam, requiring too much attention and wasting far too much paper. I called HP one day to report the problem and get it solved.

After describing the problem, the support staffer immediately recognized the issue and said, "Oh, that's very common. The paper pick-up mechanism incorporates a thin rubber pad we call a "shoe." It's designed to ensure only a single sheet of paper is fed into the machine. Over time, the rubber loses it's gripping ability, and this is what happens. The same shoe is used in many of our machines, and the problem is so common that we keep a lot of them in stock. What's your machine's model number?"

Upon giving the person the machine's model number came the magic words: "Oh. We no longer support that machine."

"Excuse me?"

"HP no longer supports that model."

"Are you telling me, that after first believing HP's advertising hype and buying its alleged 'quality' products, and then, after hearing how this common problem requires a constant supply of the part in question, that we have to toss this otherwise perfectly working machine away and buy another one? Is THAT what you're trying to tell me?"

"Well, HP no longer supports that machine."

"As a consumer, my feeling is that as long as the HP logo is proudly displayed on this machine, you will support it. Or, it's going to come flying through your window one day soon. Now, are you going to SELL me several of those rubber shoes?"

Several days later, a small envelope arrived with three of them inside. No charge.

_________________
_____________________
MacMini 2.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 16 GB RAM, OS 10.12.6


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Keyboard's gone nuts
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:36 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:41 am
Posts: 1011
Location: Halfway between New York City and Atlantic City
I suddenly feel the need to point out that I am not that type of person who would actually go so far as to find a company support location and throw anything through a window in order to get what I want. I am not a physical or violent person. I said what I said to this support person to convey their refusal to sell me an inexpensive solution to an admitted common problem by saying, essentially, "Yeah, our name's on the machine, but you can go screw yourself" was outrageously ridiculous.

_________________
_____________________
MacMini 2.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 16 GB RAM, OS 10.12.6


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Keyboard's gone nuts
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:19 am 
Offline
Benevolent Dictator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:03 am
Posts: 17806
I think we knew that Mike! :) :coffee:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Keyboard's gone nuts
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:15 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 8:13 pm
Posts: 11436
Location: Caught between the moon and NYC
These days they're still using that same shoe arrangement, but there are third parties making parts for units that sold in high quantities. HP did everything in their power to stop them from selling parts BTW, and routinely uses "genuine parts" gobbledigook doubletalk to infer that if you don't buy parts from HP your unit won't work properly. Even if they stopped making the part in question.

For similar reasons they moved to putting chips in cartridges, but got their hands slapped HARD with their initial implementation that refused to work with un-chipped cartridges.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group