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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 8:48 pm 
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Quicksilver with Tiger OSX 10.1.11. I have an Applescript running on it 24/7 periodically logging a web page. The Applescript refreshes a TenFourFox web page every 20 minutes then captures the content as text to a series of files in a shared folder. I also have a Finder window open on my iMac to check on the contents of the directory to which the logs are being saved which doubles as a way to check the logs are being generated.

Both computers (plus a printer) are connected to a single Ethernet feed from our fiber service router downstairs through a 5 port "media switch" in my room. One cable snaking through the house to the switch, then the 3 devices plugged into that. Have had no issues with things this way for several years.

Some time over the past 24 hours or so the network icon on the iMac for the shared folder on the QS disappeared. I checked the Quicksilver and indeed it has lost all Ethernet connectivity. I looked at Network Settings in preferences and it says "Built-in Ethernet currently active" but it is using an internally assigned IP address and Internet service may not be available, as is indeed the case. It goes farther than that and in fact it doesn't seem to even be connecting to my other computer.

I'll note at this stage I have no problems with connectivity through the iMac.

Things I have tried so far with no luck:

Rebooting the QS
Changing the switch port into which the QS Ethernet cable is plugged.
Rebooting the main router.
Tried logging into the router using a web browser but it just spun its wheel for a minute then said server not available. Logging in works fine from the iMac.
Swapped out the 3' cable from the QS to the switch box.

I do not currently have wireless set up in the Quicksilver. I think I have a third party card somewhere (which I removed 8 years ago) but would need to find it and reinstall it. Our router is on another floor of the house and the wireless signal upstairs isn't the best.

Is the Ethernet port fried? Would it still say it was active if this were the case? At one stage when I removed the cable it said the cable wasn't connected so it seems to still be aware of things.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:32 pm 
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Have you tried static IP in the proper range yet?

Hqve you rebooted the Switch?

I assume that was 10.4.11

Make a New Location, Using network locations in Mac OS X ...

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106653

Drag Ethernet to the top of the list.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 11:34 pm 
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I second the motion to reboot the switch. If that doesn't work, test with a different switch.

- Anonymous


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:47 am 
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Yes, 10.4.11

I tried unplugging the switch for about 15 seconds, then re-powering. It isn't a very sophisticated device. Still not working. Again, the iMac does work so I would think if it were the switch I'd be seeing problems with the iMac too.

I just checked our Ethernet connected printer from the iMac and there is communication. It is connected via the switch so it is unlikely to be the switch that's bad unless it were both of the ports I tried and the others all good.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:05 am 
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How about the new location?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:43 am 
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Creating a new location didn't do anything.

The connection was working fine until yesterday. I use the computer with a shared monitor so I literally haven't touched the other computer in over a week since it is a real nuisance to toggle monitor connections.

In a few minutes I'll try unplugging the main ethernet feed from the switch box and connect it to the computer. I may have tried that late lst night and I am not optimistic about it. I'd say my ethernet port is going except the QS computer does detect it in System Preferences but it just insists upon giving it its own IP, not one from DHCP. Again, I literally haven't touched that computer in over a week and all it does is sit there for the past 4 years running an Applescript and a web browser.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:14 am 
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In Sys Prefs>Network>Ethernet>Ethernet tab>Configure:, try Manually instead of DHCP... Speed>10BaseT/UDP, Duplex>Half Duplex, Apply.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:23 am 
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I did that but it just says it detects an ethernet cable but requires an IP address. I don't have a a fixed IP and the only source I have for one would be to copy the one from my iMac which would probably lead to conflicts.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:46 am 
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Have you tried putting a switch in the same room as the QS and plugging a known good cable, tested with another system, to verify it can link with the switch? It won't get an IP address without being connected to your DHCP server but it should at least get link and bring the Ethernet port up. You can get a 10/100 switch shipped for under $10 from Monoprice. You might even be able to link the two together using the existing cable.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:02 pm 
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I completely powered down the QS and opened it up. Blew out a lot of dust while I was in there. The ethernet port is part of the MB and under the CPU cooler so I can't do anything about looking at it closely. I re-installed my wif-fi card and booted it again. I then plugged the main ethernet cable from downstairs -- the one that has been working without issue on my other computer through the switch fine so far -- into the QS. This took the switch completely out of the equation. When I select Ethernet configuration in Network settings it seems to flip flop a bit between no cable detected and cable detected but no network detected.

I was able to get it to detect the 3rd party wi-fi card and all seems fine when using it. The prime disadvantage is the card only supports WPA so I am not sure if it is wise to leave it active 24/7 as the means of networking that computer.

So wireless networking seems to work fine but the wired one doesn't. If anything it seems worse now that I blew out some dust and I am assuming that something in the port is flaky. There's enough connectivity that the computer knows something is plugged in there but not enough for full networking. Don't forget, I have now tried 3 different cables into that port.

I tried running my scripts on my Mavericks computer in a different user account. For various reasons this seems to be disadvantageous but I may have to get used to it. One of the big nuisances is Mavericks and the various software I run on it such as Waterfox now seems to need a complete rebooting of the computer at least once a week. When I do that everything just seems a bit faster. However, it now means starting all the applications and scripts in the other directory, plus some buggy Finder issues about Mavericks means one of my scripts no longer really works so now I'll have to log into that account daily to make sure the script is running.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:36 pm 
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When trying Manually, did you get to this screen, still using DHCP?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:09 pm 
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When I get home tonight I'll glance for a spare PCI Ethernet card. If I have one it's probably only 100Mb, but I'd be happy to send it to you. I'm not sure that I have one but I'll definitely check.

- Anonymous


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:59 pm 
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BDAqua: Yes, I get that and the TCP/IP pane offers DHCP but when I select it I still get the internally designated IP message. I had a look at the same window on my iMac and in others related to device configuration I noticed a pattern in the IP address. The base pattern was radically different from the one I see from the internally designated IP.

Anonymous: That would be great! I have all kinds of PCI cards in a box in the basement but not Ethernet. I have it working over wi-fi now but would prefer something hard-wired, particularly given the WPA aspect.

I don't know if any of the more advanced reset options would help with this such as NVRAM. It happened pretty much on its own at 10 pm (the last modification date of my log file) and wasn't related to any other crash so I really have the feeling it is a 16 year old computer being a 16 year old computer.

I guess at some stage I'l have to look at porting my Applescripts (it turns out I have two running 24/7 on that computer) over to a newer OS version. I've opened them in a newer version of Applescript and re-saved them but some aspects of the scripts do not seem to work the same under Mavericks. Part of this is Mavericks' fault with bugs I have been observing in Finder, some with behavior of newer versions of applications with which the scripts interact. I know one web site suddenly required a newer version of Safari than I could install under Tiger and the site stopped working. I then had to rewrite a section of the script so it would work with TenFourFox but TFF (=Firefox) has lousy Applescript support and what I had in as neat Applescript commands now had to be substituted with emulating key presses into the TFF window. I also suspect some of the glitches may be me trying to run it in a different user account (done this way so I can use the same applications for other daily use in my main user area). I tracked one script running in the special account and it seemed to work, then I had a look at the Public folder for that area while in my main account and noticed a bunch of interruptions in the log process.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:07 pm 
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Yes, self appointed IPs will be like 169.x.x.x & means it's not communicating with anything handing out DHCP IPs, if you manually set an IP, just use the same 1st 3 numbers as a good one, but a few numbers higher in the 4th place, say the Router is 192.168.0.1 & the iMce is 192.168.0.2, set the QS to 192.168.0.8, Subnet mask to 255.255.255.0 Router to 192.168.0.1


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:39 pm 
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If you choose a manual setting for the quicksilver's ethernet port then you also have to configure the other end of that connection to also use those exact same settings. This requires the use of a managed switch on the other end, or another system. Unless you have a managed switch you should leave it on automatic.

I don't know what bringing the cable up from downstairs means. What was the other end of this cable plugged into if not the switch?

You can try and and get a 4-wire Cat-5e cable to try and stop the link from occurring at 1Gb. 1Gb uses all 8 wires in the cable and while I know it's been fine for a period of time but there could be external factors intruding and 1Gb is a lot more touchy than 100Mb. If nothing changed then it would have kept working. You could also force it to link at 10/100 by putting a 10/100 switch in-line with the QS. Hence my suggestion to get a 10/100 switch (the fact that they're $7 doesn't hurt).

Is there a third party CPU installed in the QuickSilver? If it's an OEM CPU you could try and press the PMU reset button on the motherboard followed by zapping the PRAM. I had motherboard issues with my old QS that were solved by resetting the PMU. The problem with third party cards is that 7447, 7448, and 7457 CPUs require open firmware patches to work so when you reset the PMU & zap PRAM those patches get lost, though if you have a 7450/7455 CPU then it should be fine.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:49 am 
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MB:

We have fiber optic coming into the basement. There it is plugged into a modem which provides telephone service and several ethernet ports. We only get to use one port because all their modems are designed to accommodate multi-unit dwellings. An ethernet cable then leads from the modem up into our livingroom where the actual router is located. It was done this way because we initially also had tv service which we have since dropped. I told the installer I wanted a hardwired line to my room upstairs. The best routing for this was to then take a cable out of the router back into the basement, across the basement, then up through a return air duct as part of our heating air conditioning system, then through a wall to a jack installed in my room right next to my computer table. I then have a 3' cable leading from this to a Zyxel GS-105I media switch. The media switch has one jack for the ethernet source, and 4 for devices into which I currently have an iMac, the QS, and a Brother printer.

I know often when people say nothing has changed they say that but in reality they have been turning things on and off or something. In this case I really had done nothing to the QS in over a week. 99.9% of the time it is just sitting there on the floor. Even then all I did a week ago was switch the monitor to it (done by pressing buttons on the monitor, not messing with connectors), pick up the keyboard and drag some data files to the trash and empty the trash, then put the keyboard back down.

As far as I know this is the original CPU. It is a dual 1GHz, PowerMac3,5. It did come with an upgraded video card that was a flashed version and caused all kinds of kernel problems until I put in an older model 8 years ago, but I think all else is original.

I'll start going through my cable collection and see if I have anything labeled cat-5


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:58 pm 
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My remark about things changing isn't to infer that you changed a setting on the computer or switch or router, it's that something has changed. This could be as simple as having moved a fluorescent light within a few feet of the cable at some point during its run. It could also be as simple as a crimped stranded connector into a solid wire cable that finally gave way on one or more of the 8 conductors due to age. Its also that time of year when rodents like to move into homes and start chewing on wires. There's a lot of possibilities beyond you making a configuration change.

If you can get link on a 10/100 with a locally placed switch then at least you can rule out the G4 as the source of the problem. If it continues then you know the problem is in the G4.

I had a FW port knocked out on my QS that came back with a PMU & PRAM reset, if you're on an OEM CPU there's no harm (aside from having to set the date & time, plus startup disk if your boot device isn't on the first IDE port - hold down option to select an alternate boot device, then use startup disk to set once booted to fix it).

Cat5e/Cat6 is fine for GigE, Cat5 technically is okay for GigE but is a lot more recalcitrant due to looser standards, which is why I'm trying to steer you towards 10/100 which is easier to get going (Cat5 is perfect for 10/100). If you plug your existing cable run into the 10/100 switch that the G4 is plugged into and it works then you know the second pair of wires in that cable is the problem.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:46 pm 
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I looked everywhere for a PCI Ethernet card and couldn't find one, much to my surprise. Sorry. :(

- Anonymous


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:13 pm 
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Mac OS X PCI Ethernet Card Compatibility Reports...

http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/OSX/os_x_network_cards.html


I wonder if these work in 10.4.11?

https://www.amazon.com/Port-Gigabit-Eth ... B0000TO0BQ

http://www.macmall.com/dlp/network-inte ... ml?pr=0-24


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:35 am 
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Thanks for having a look Anonymous.

BDA: There seem to be several cards on Amazon that say "Mac" or even "Mac OSX 10.4" in support. Maybe I'll check those when I have something else I need to buy from Amazon so I don't end up paying more for shipping than I do for the card itself. I know one card had free shipping but it didn't mention Mac support.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:33 am 
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I also notice that since running the script in another user account on my iMac my screen saver is having problems. My settings are to have the screen saver activate after 20 minutes idle time and for the display to sleep after an hour. For the past couple of days I have been coming into my room after being away for several hours or overnight to find the display completely awake, not even the saver active. Last night I activated the saver by putting the mouse into the saver corner but this morning I came into my room to find the display fully active whereas normally it would have been fully asleep. I wouldn't think this would happen, particularly if I am in "my" account in fast user switching, but it seems the activity (every 15 minutes) of the logging script in the other account is causing problems with the screen saver. Interestingly I did not have that problem when running the script on the QS. I would switch the monitor to that every week or so to do some file cleanup and it would switch to a fully asleep display mode (I mean only the display was asleep, the scripts were still running).


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:44 pm 
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Limnos, could you provide a screenshot of your current ethernet settings? The one from the initial window, not any of the advanced ones. If the system is forcing a 169 starting IP, it's somehow lost track of your WAN (gateway) IP. I'm interested in seeing what the computer shows currently.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:54 am 
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This one? Don't forget, this is Tiger OSX so the settings window layout is different.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:23 am 
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Just remembered one other "cure" that has/may worked on QSes & MDDS...

In Network Port Configuration, remove the Ethernet port with the tiny minus icon, Restart in Safe Mode, add n ethernet port in Network Port Configuration, restart normally.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:09 am 
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There's nothing under Router. That means the affected Mac can't even see whatever gateway you're using. Whatever the first device is for incoming internet is what needs to be in that Router field. So if your WAN device IP is 192.168.1.1, that's the IP you use. If it's 10.0.0.1 as is typically the case for combo gateways or certain vendors' products, use that. Without the IP of the WAN device, neither DHCP nor static IPs will work because the machine has no clue where to get its network signals from.

What is the exact layout of your network?

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