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PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:44 pm 
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I just don’t understand Microsoft and their business practices. I guess I never will. OK, so I understand why they skipped Windoze 9 and went straight to Windoze 10, clearly it was because they didn’t want uneducated consumers to assume Windoze 9 would be compatible with Mac OS 9. :bonk: :g3: :cube: :g4: :p_dog:

HOWEVER

There is ZERO support for “next gen” AMD CPUs in Windoze 8.1 (Radeon RX series, Vega, etc.).

BUT

There is support in Windoze 7… :shock: :? HUH WTFFFFF?!!??!?!?!? This is megatarded beyond belief. Certain schtuff (games, etc.) won’t run in Windoze 7 but WILL run in Windoze 8.1. This is incredibly lame. I am simply NOT going to “upgrade” :lol: to Winbloze 10 because it is an utter piece of shit bloatware. I have to suffer Monday–Friday through the insanity on an otherwise “top of the line” Dell PC at my job running Winbloze 10 every time I try to produce work in Adobe CC apps (even my manager is fed up with the Microsoft stupidity).

On the last remaining PC setup I have in my possession (which isn’t a Hackintosh), I decided it was time to upgrade the dual Radeon HD 6970s to the now affordable (used eBay cards at $110 each) Radeon RX 580 cards. I figured it would be a straightforward plug-and-play procedure in Windoze 8.1 as it is in macOS el Capitan and later. WRONG!!! :roll: What a flustercuck!

So, a half a day spent “downgrading” to “Vista Plus Plus” (Windoze 7), and installation of the Windoze 7-spec AMD drivers and MSI utility, I am now cooking with dual RX 580 GPUs. Unfortunately, some of the games I had installed won’t run in Windoze 7… or at least, I have not searched for a workaround yet.

Anyway, RC5 dnet GPU crunching is breaking these cards in… although I am pretty sure that the cryptoboys have already run these cards through the ringer in the name of making $1/month in cryptocurrency. :lol:

-he who stacks pork

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:58 pm 
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Good to hear from you. :)

Actually MS skipped Windows 9 because most of the software, including theirs, that checked for Windows version only looked for a 9, hence Windows 95 & 98 would be confused with Windows 9... hows that for lame?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 8:25 pm 
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What games will not run in 7 but will in 8? I'm rather curious to find out since anything that runs in 8 should run in 7.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:04 pm 
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RX 480 supports 7 through 10
https://www.amd.com/en/support/graphics ... eon-rx-480

RX 580 supports 7 & 10
https://www.amd.com/en/support/graphics ... eon-rx-580

I bet if you were to install the 7 driver on 8.1 it would work. Alternately you could try installing the RX 480 8.1 driver since they're kissing cousins... RX 580 is basically an RX 480 that doesn't overheat as often. In some cases underclocking an RX 480 gives a higher framerate due to heat, though my particular RX 480 doesn't seem to have that issue with the fans running 100% of the time at 100%.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:34 pm 
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I did a little digging and found someone complaining about this on amd.com and the suggestion from the couple amd people there was to install the appropriate flavor Windows 7 driver... or upgrade to 10.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:00 pm 
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It’s a done deal. I “upgraded” :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: to Windoze 7. I just need to try and reinstall all the cool-ass old-school games and hopefully they will still run. The original plan was to install Hackintosh High Sierra on this particular system (ASRock Z97 Killer Fatal1ty dual SLI motherboard) but I was experiencing issues with HDs and SSDs on the macOS side of things. So for the time being (until I obtain a proper Gigabyte Z97 motherboard) this thing will be in the Satya Nadella world of silliness.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:59 am 
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You still haven't said which games you believe won't run in 7 but will in 8. :P

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:49 pm 
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There are a few DX12 titles but they're pretty few & far in-between.

I've taken to using DOSBox to get old titles working in Windows 10, though it does require a pretty intimate familiarity with ye olden Windows & (depending on the age) DOS technobabble.

Just to be warned Leo, Windows 7 is being taken off life support next year. That's why I gave up and started transitioning to Windows 10.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:56 pm 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
There are a few DX12 titles but they're pretty few & far in-between.

I've taken to using DOSBox to get old titles working in Windows 10, though it does require a pretty intimate familiarity with ye olden Windows & (depending on the age) DOS technobabble.

Just to be warned Leo, Windows 7 is being taken off life support next year. That's why I gave up and started transitioning to Windows 10.


Any game that requires DX12 won't run in windows 7 either. DX12 is Windows 10 only, so that doesn't pan out.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:29 pm 
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Oh. Hm. So it is. Wasn't there a DX version that was exclusive to 8.x? Or am I just muddling up my memories of 7 & 8 with XP & 7. Probably the latter.

Thank god it's Friday, I can actually get enough sleep tonight/tomorrow.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:43 pm 
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DirectX 9 was released in 2002 for Windows 98 through XP, and currently on or supported by all subsequent versions. Microsoft continues to make changes in DirectX 9c, causing support to be dropped for some of the aforementioned operating systems. As of January 2007, Windows 2000 or XP is required. This also introduced Pixel Shader 2.0.

DirectX 10 See also: Direct3D 10

Microsoft DirectX 10
A major update to DirectX API, DirectX 10 ships with and is only available with Windows Vista and later; previous versions of Windows such as Windows XP are not able to run DirectX 10-exclusive applications

DirectX 11.2 is included in Windows 8.1

DirectX 12 was announced by Microsoft at GDC on March 20, 2014, and was officially launched alongside Windows 10 on July 29, 2015

Release history[edit]
Table of DirectX versions
DirectX version Version number Release date Notes
1.0 4.02.0095 September 30, 1995
2.0 1996 Was shipped only with a few 3rd party applications
2.0a 4.03.00.1096 June 5, 1996 Windows 95 OSR2 and Windows NT 4.0
3.0 4.04.00.0068 September 15, 1996
4.04.00.0069 1996 Later package of DirectX 3.0 included Direct3D 4.04.00.0069
3.0a 4.04.00.0070 December 1996 Windows NT 4.0 SP3 (and above)
Last supported version of DirectX for Windows NT 4.0
3.0b 4.04.00.0070 December 1996 This was a very minor update to 3.0a that fixed a cosmetic problem with the Japanese version of Windows 95
4.0 Never launched DirectX 4 was never released. Raymond Chen of Microsoft explained in his book, The Old New Thing, that after DirectX 3 was released, Microsoft began developing versions 4 and 5 at the same time. Version 4 was to be a shorter-term release with small features, whereas version 5 would be a more substantial release. The lack of interest from game developers in the features stated for DirectX 4 resulted in it being shelved, and the corpus of documents that already distinguished the two new versions resulted in Microsoft choosing to not re-use version 4 to describe features intended for version 5.[49][50]
5.0 4.05.00.0155 (RC55) August 4, 1997 Available as a beta for Windows 2000 that would install on Windows NT 4.0
5.2 4.05.01.1600 (RC00) May 5, 1998 DirectX 5.2 release for Windows 95
4.05.01.1998 (RC0) June 25, 1998 Windows 98 exclusive
6.0 4.06.00.0318 (RC3) August 7, 1998 Windows CE as implemented on Dreamcast
6.1 4.06.02.0436 (RC0) February 3, 1999
6.1a 4.06.03.0518 (RC0) May 5, 1999 Windows 98 Second Edition exclusive
7.0 4.07.00.0700 (RC1) September 22, 1999
4.07.00.0700 February 17, 2000 Windows 2000
7.0a 4.07.00.0716 (RC0) March 8, 2000
4.07.00.0716 (RC1) 2000
7.1 4.07.01.3000 (RC1) September 14, 2000 Windows ME exclusive. Last version to have built-in RGB software rendering support
8.0 4.08.00.0400 (RC10) November 12, 2000
8.0a 4.08.00.0400 (RC14) February 5, 2001 Last supported version for Windows 95 and last version to have software rendering support in dxdiag.exe
8.1 4.08.01.0810 October 25, 2001 Windows XP, Windows XP SP1, Windows Server 2003 and Xbox exclusive
4.08.01.0881 (RC7) November 8, 2001 This version is for the down level operating systems (Windows 98, Windows ME and Windows 2000)
8.1a 4.08.01.0901 (RC?) 2002 This release includes an update to Direct3D (D3d8.dll)
8.1b 4.08.01.0901 (RC7) June 25, 2002 This update includes a fix to DirectShow on Windows 2000 (Quartz.dll)
8.2 4.08.02.0134 (RC0) 2002 Same as the DirectX 8.1b but includes DirectPlay 8.2
9.0 4.09.00.0900 (RC4) December 19, 2002 Periodic updates were released for DirectX 9, starting from 4.09.00.0904 (RC0 for DX 9.0c) in October 2004, released bimonthly until August 2007, and quarterly thereafter. The last periodic update was released in June 2010[51]
The February 9, 2005 release is the first 64-bit capable build.[52] The last build for Windows 98SE/Me is the redistributable from December 13, 2006.[53][54] The last build for Windows 2000 is the redistributable from February 5, 2010.[55] April 2006 is the first official support to Windows Vista[56] and August 2009 is the first official support to Windows 7 and DX11 update[57]
9.0a 4.09.00.0901 (RC6) March 26, 2003
9.0b 4.09.00.0902 (RC2) August 13, 2003
9.0c[58] July 22, 2004 First 9.0c version and last supported version for Windows 98[59]
4.09.00.0903 Windows XP SP2 exclusive
4.09.00.0904 (RC0) August 4, 2004
December 8, 2006 Last supported version for Windows 98 Second Edition[59]
4.09.00.0904 August 6, 2004 / April 21, 2008* Xbox 360, Windows XP SP2, SP3*, Windows Server 2003 SP1 and Windows Server 2003 R2
October 27, 2008 Last supported version for Windows ME
10 6.00.6000.16386 November 30, 2006 Windows Vista exclusive
10.1 6.00.6001.18000 February 4, 2008 Windows Vista SP1, Windows Server 2008
Includes Direct3D 10.1
6.00.6002.18005 April 28, 2009 Windows Vista SP2, Windows Server 2008 SP2
Includes Direct3D 10.1
11 6.01.7600.16385 October 22, 2009 Windows 7, Windows Server 2008 R2
6.00.6002.18107 October 27, 2009 Windows Vista SP2 and Windows Server 2008 SP2, through the Platform Update for Windows Vista and Windows Server 2008[60]
6.01.7601.17514 February 16, 2011 Windows 7 SP1, Windows Server 2008 R2 SP1
11.1 6.02.9200.16384 August 1, 2012 Windows 7 SP1, Windows 8, Windows RT, Windows Server 2012
11.2 6.03.9600.16384 October 18, 2013 Windows 8.1, Windows RT, Windows Server 2012 R2, Xbox One
12.0 10.00.10240.16384 July 29, 2015 Windows 10, Xbox One
12.0 10.00.15063.0000 March 20, 2017 Windows 10, Depth Bounds Testing and Programmable MSAA added[61][62]
12.0 10.00.17763.0001 October 2, 2018 Windows 10, DirectX Raytracing support added[63]
The version number as reported by Microsoft's DxDiag tool (version 4.09.0000.0900 and higher) use the x.xx.xxxx.xxxx format for version numbers. However, the DirectX and Windows XP MSDN page claims that the registry always has been in the x.xx.xx.xxxx format. Put another way, when the above table lists a version as '4.09.00.0904' Microsoft's DxDiag tool may have it as '4.09.0000.0904'.[64]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectX#Versions


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:50 pm 
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11.2 is unique to 8, they updated 11 to 11.1 for 7 to get developers interested, but I'm pretty sure I was just confusing XP & 7, or maybe XP & Vista. I was really tired last night, especially after I looked at my project for today (rearranging furniture then

I honestly don't know of any games that use 11.2 that won't work with 11.1.

The only thing I miss in 10 is being able to run Team Fortress 2 in DirectX 8 mode. I like the older lower polycount models.

Although, wait, they did royally screw up DX9 a couple updates ago, framerates dropped into the toilet. Although if you extract the older dx9 dll and place it in the application's folder, it'll use that dll instead of the system dll and be right back where it should be.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:22 pm 
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That's an interesting hack. :)


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:26 pm 
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Well that's how the beta versions of Safari work, instead of using the system framework there's a copy of the WebKit framework in the app and it calls that instead of using the system WebKit. I think it's more complicated than just dragging a file (or folder) into a folder on OS X though I've never really dug into it.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:14 pm 
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Meanwhile, back in Matropoolisstown (or some other US-based locale) I purchased a Winbloze 10 license from a seller on eBay for under $7.00 and attempted to upgrade from Winbloze 7… and of course got the expected Winbloze error 0xc004c008. So I am not in a place to test everything out (older games and shit) yet. Film at eleven.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:53 pm 
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I'd dispute that sale with eBay ASAP because 0xc004c008 means they sold you an invalid key.

Not sure if there's any way you can wrangle an educational/academic key, because they can get Pro for under $60.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:42 pm 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
I'd dispute that sale with eBay ASAP because 0xc004c008 means they sold you an invalid key.

Not sure if there's any way you can wrangle an educational/academic key, because they can get Pro for under $60.


It was legit. I was able to run SLUI 4 (or something, I don’t remember what it was now) in the command prompt, then call up a Microsoft Windowz 10 activation specialist in a foreign callcenter and have them provide me with a numeric activation code with which works. However, as a drastic measure to ensure it would work, I started fresh from another formatted hard drive, first installing Windowz 7 and then downloading/“upgrading’ to Windowz 10. Now, I just need to thoroughly investigate the unexpected automatic update related system reboots that seem to occur at 2:00AM, and neutralize that crap! From there, I will try and copy over the games which were installed onto the Windowz 8.1 hard drive and see if I can get them to just magically work.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:24 pm 
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Settings, Update & Security, Change Active Hours to the hours you're usually using the system. Then back out to Update & Security, Advanced Options, Give me updates for Microsoft products & change Semi-Annual Channel (Targeted) to Semi-Annual Channel. You can set the delay options under the channel but if you're browsing the internet I wouldn't recommend setting the quality update to more than 7 days, feature updates can be delayed as long as you want but I usually set it to 14 or 30.

Either way once you get through the initial rush of updates and updates for updates and updates for updates of updates installed you'll only have to deal with updates on patch tuesday, not every day.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:02 pm 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
Settings, Update & Security, Change Active Hours to the hours you're usually using the system. Then back out to Update & Security, Advanced Options, Give me updates for Microsoft products & change Semi-Annual Channel (Targeted) to Semi-Annual Channel. You can set the delay options under the channel but if you're browsing the internet I wouldn't recommend setting the quality update to more than 7 days, feature updates can be delayed as long as you want but I usually set it to 14 or 30.

Either way once you get through the initial rush of updates and updates for updates and updates for updates of updates installed you'll only have to deal with updates on patch tuesday, not every day.


Fortunately, for anything “real”, I still use my Macs. The only web browsing that happened on the Windowz box was downloading Windowz 10 (I download drivers on the macOS side and stick them on a good ’ol USB stick since I’m old school). It’s annoying when it updates after hours, because the dual Radeon RX 580s are crunching RC5-72 packets (which is really important business :lol: for bettering mankind), and of course it interrupts the process. The bonus is that the shitty draft-laden apartment I live in actually stays warm overnight with six Radeon RX 580s cranking away the Gigakeys. Thanks for the tip on changing the hours, I just altered them.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:17 am 
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I really really really want to get this ASRock Fatal1ty Z97 “Killer” setup running macOS. Hardware-wise the motherboard is blazingly fast (for a system running an HDD as opposed to SSD), it would make quite a kick-ass Hackintosh. But for the time being I will have to stick it out in my $5.88 Windoze 10 install, which is an annoying and inconsistent end-luser experience; if I were just a gamer I could give a rat’s ass about things like consistency but I’m a cranky old man so you whippersnappers get off my lawn! :evil: :lol: :whip: :p_dog:

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:50 am 
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So it looks like I need to spend way more time then on ANYTHING else figuring out the crap win10 (JUST RECENTLY installed).

First issue... every time I re-boot it, it sets the time ahead about 4 hours. I have had the auto-setting ON and OFF for time and time zone, in various combinations, but NO difference. It HAS my correct location and time zone (these don't change). When I hit the sync button, it sets the CORRECT time. MADDENING.

Got and installed Chrome, it linked up and boom all my shizz from the Mac side is right there, good job google.

Wanted to run some graphics benchmarks, so I got 2 of the Unigine apps. Ran them Mac side... interesting, neither use Metal buy OpenGL. Boot in 'blowz, download the, run the installer. Frak me, "wa, wa,wa missing file MSVCP100.dll." For BOTH of them. Reinstalled both, same shit. Both live in their own folders in a Unigine folder. In each application's BIN folder, there is a mscvr100.dll but no macvp.xxx. Back to google, this is some Visual C thing, they say to d/l it to get that file back. BUT I doubt that will put them IN the 2 benchmark application's BIN folders.

Already almost ready to ditch this pile of unmitigated crap.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:03 pm 
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It sounds like you don't have the Boot Camp drivers installed?

Basically Apple stores the time in GMT format in the hardware clock. PCs, on the other hand, store the current time zone's clock in the hardware clock. As a result when you boot into Windows it sets the clock forward because it looks at the clock and expects it to be set to the current time zone. Whatever your GMT offset is how far the clock jumps.

Did you run setup.exe in BootCamp to install all the drivers? Normally something in there takes care of this quirk because it's always gone away after installing BC for me.

Worst case you could create a scheduled task to set the clock for you after login. It should be enough time for the network to have connected (definitely if connecting via ethernet, maybe not if WiFi), if not you could delay the sync by 10 or 15 seconds.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:46 pm 
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I have been kinda holding off on those bc drivers, I am very undecided about running that setup.exe from the stuff I downloaded or do it the way it's is spelled out here... curious what you think (the look-a-like win10 window to set startup drive I did NOT have in my old install, my guess is that one comes from those iMacPro BC things)...

https://www.crystalidea.com/blog/classi ... nd-windows

Somewhere else I caught that here was some file in one of the BC droppings that was blue-screening, so the advice for that seemed to point to using the iMacPro stuff.

PLUS I think they have some new version of the command line tool in there...

Ah... GMT IS 4 hours ahead of me. Think I looked at the time zone thing, I probably could cheese it that way (but I kinda remember that it had almost no range, maybe that was because I also set a legit location.

My current agita is I got 2m of the Ungine graphic benchmarks things (they have Mac & win versions). Ran fine on macOS, crap failed on winblowz (missing a msvcp100.dll file). More than one olace said "oh, you need to d/l some visual c redistribution update (Microsoft Visual C++ 2010 Service Pack 1 Redistributable Package MFC Security Update), I dutifully did that, yes it put that missing file in the /Windows/System32 directory, damn Ungine stuff still won't work, I copied the damn file INTO their directories, still no go. THERE were several distributions of this visual c crap, Picked the one that kind said it was for 64 bit (vcredist_x86.exe, vcredist_ia64.exe, vcredist_x64.exe (this is the one I ran with). Tried to find some way of contacting them, eventually wound up on a Facebook page where I could at least post something.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:05 pm 
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Well, until you install boot camp, you're gonna be stuck with missing drivers and random issues. Your call.

I would also like to point out that guy's instructions are for an old version of Windows 10 running on a Mac Pro 1,1. You have the current version of 10 on a Mac Pro 5,1. Don't be so quick to follow any random instructions off the internet.

It certainly sounds like your setup is working, you just haven't finished the installation. You should have run bootcamp immediately after installing Windows. If you run it now you may have issues since it may try to install old drivers over new and barf and fail and break the installation script. It might not care. Dunno, the Mac Pro under my desk had to be reverted to 10.13 yesterday and setup for someone to use so I can't test.

My bluescreen was from the old ATI Radeon drivers included with BootCamp, or, more accurately, the old ATI CCC application breaking the new drivers installed by Windows 10 that it wouldn't let Boot Camp overwrite. You may have an awful hard time using iMac drivers on a Mac Pro, the installation script checks the list of systems that version of Boot Camp supports and will refuse to install if the one you're on isn't included. Since you don't have an ATI card my BSOD isn't likely to affect you at all. It might not even install OEM display drivers since you don't have any OEM cards present (I did).

Visual C++ redistributions are available in multiple versions on both x86 and x64 architectures. You need to get the version or versions installed for the architecture your application uses. Normally the appropriate redistributables are included as part of the setup process for apps. Otherwise you can check the documentation to see what version and architecture it needs.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:47 pm 
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Location: New York City
Starting to feel a tad better now that I have gained some level of control. JUST you telling me what was going on with time sent me to a temporary fix, set location to Alaska, auto pick time zone, boom, correct time! Yup, vcredist_x64.exe was wrong, vcredist_x86.exe did the trick (don't get architecture over memory depth,it's ALL x86, but there is 32 and 64). Now that I played with the Unigine apps, I CAN see the are actually kinda old, the Mac one uses OpenGL and the 'blowz version is DX11. Anyway, BOTH did better running under 'blowz, but quite a bit although the Mac version, even on OpenGL was over 60 fps. The should have Metal and DX12 versions!

Actually, the guy said it was a 4,1 flashed to 5,1. But there IS stuff that seems weird... like the BT installer is NOT named like what is in the files for the ones from Apple. The only drivers I have really installed are the nVidia ones, that installer is still sitting there. AND I have no clue why he says to d/l some zip utility... that stuff is built in! OTOH, you did confirm how he said to really get things rolling (and the bit about the UI not creating a proper disc came from the guy who he basd much of his stuff one). Thing is, if I majorly screw anything up, I haven't put that much work into fooling with it, so just go from scratch. Tomorrow I'll run the fruity setup!

Seems I HAVE to hit a key to get by an initial screen (once several little message pop up) to get to my sign-in. Annoying. Can it auto sign me in, you know, like my Mac? AND WTF happened to Themes? Now, all they seem only a series of changing desktop pictures. There was TONS more tnhings to make you environment cooler, titles bars etc. Then again, maybe I'm more thinking of 7.


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