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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:06 am 
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MB, since you said you have a lab full of Acer Monitors, do you have any experience with this, or have some idea what's happening?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:41 am 
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FYI warm up time on this LCD is approx 30 minutes. Make sure your running for at least 30 minutes before doing your calibration settings. Have used many of these LCD's and so far so good.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:02 am 
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SandyG3 wrote:
FYI warm up time on this LCD is approx 30 minutes. Make sure your running for at least 30 minutes before doing your calibration settings. Have used many of these LCD's and so far so good.

Hi, long time no see. Problem with that is that I can give it a good 30 minutes before setting the brightness and contrast, but after it comes out of standby mode (if it's been there long enough), from sleeping the Mini, or Ctrl-Shift-Eject to sleep the screen, those settings are then way too dim, and I have to wait 30 minutes all over again. Or, if I set the brightness up to compensate for the monitor just waking up, then, after 30 minutes (or less) I have to reduce the brightness again dramatically. This gets old fast.

This is something I've never experienced on the iMac LCD/LED. The brightness and contrast stay more or less constant, whether coming out of sleep or not. Are you saying this is typical of independent or Acer LCD/LED backlit displays? Is yours an LED backlight or fluorescent?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 1:18 pm 
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Just spent wasted two fucking hours on the phone with Acer. Got to speak to a higher level tech (so called), who didn't know shit from shinola, had no idea for a solution, and finally said that he knows nothing about Mac, and that Acer only supports Windows. :bonk: :bonk: :bonk: :upset: :upset: :upset:


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 1:37 pm 
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Ah, only the higher level techs know they only support Windows®! :(


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:22 pm 
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SandyG3 wrote:
FYI warm up time on this LCD is approx 30 minutes. Make sure your running for at least 30 minutes before doing your calibration settings. Have used many of these LCD's and so far so good.


This is true for CCFLs, but not so for LEDs, at least properly designed LEDs. If the monitor is designated as an "LED" monitor, it uses LEDs for the backlight and should not be warming up. Ever. There's either some hidden ECO type setting or the firmware is messed up and the monitor should be replaced.

I'm not sure how much of a hassle replacing this would be, but there's something not right going on here. It's acting exactly like dynamic contrast, but with no way to counter it. I wish I were there and could navigate the OSD to see which setting could potentially be the culprit. I've gotten pretty good at that aspect of display calibration, having dealt with Samsung's dynamic contrast BS for years now.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 7:01 pm 
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Squishy Tia wrote:
SandyG3 wrote:
FYI warm up time on this LCD is approx 30 minutes. Make sure your running for at least 30 minutes before doing your calibration settings. Have used many of these LCD's and so far so good.


This is true for CCFLs, but not so for LEDs, at least properly designed LEDs. If the monitor is designated as an "LED" monitor, it uses LEDs for the backlight and should not be warming up. Ever. There's either some hidden ECO type setting or the firmware is messed up and the monitor should be replaced.

I'm not sure how much of a hassle replacing this would be, but there's something not right going on here. It's acting exactly like dynamic contrast, but with no way to counter it. I wish I were there and could navigate the OSD to see which setting could potentially be the culprit. I've gotten pretty good at that aspect of display calibration, having dealt with Samsung's dynamic contrast BS for years now.

I think I've tried every possible option in the OSD. Nothing left to try. It's either the Monitor or something going on between the Mini and the Monitor. And the latter possibility seems very unlikely. However, any suggestions still very welcome.This User Guide (pdf) is for an older Acer, but it describes the OSD options on mine. Starts on page 8.

This is what I posted to Acer. Still no reply:


Quote:
H236HLbid Black 23" backlight gradually becoming much too bright

New monitor. Connected to Mac Mini. (2010 Mac Mini 4,1-- as far as I can tell, it doesn't appear that the Mini is talking to the Acer to make this happen). I'm finding that the screen/backlight gets gradually much brighter over about twenty/thirty minutes. Upon resuming from Standby mode, If I use the last saved brightness setting, it will start out on the too dim side, then finally resume the brightness and contrast levels I've set before letting the monitor sleep or turning it off--even becoming far brighter than that setting. ACM not enabled, but behaving a bit like what the ACM does in several seconds, if enabled. E.g. brightness needs to be toned down from 35, where it becomes unacceptably bright, to 25, then, after waking up 25 is much too dim.

I've set this up by the book: both Mini and Monitor powered down, both unplugged, connected HDMI cable, plugged both back in, opened monitor first, next the Mini (to get the correct handshake, presumably.)

Settings: DDC/CI-> ON, ACM -> OFF, DPS -> ON. None of the Eco/e stuff. Am currently testing with DPS and DDC/CI disabled to see if that makes any difference. EDIT: those settings didn't make any difference.



From the Mini System Report:



NVIDIA GeForce 320M:

Chipset Model: NVIDIA GeForce 320M
Type: GPU
Bus: PCI
VRAM (Total): 256 MB
Vendor: NVIDIA (0x10de)
Device ID: 0x08a4
Revision ID: 0x00a2
ROM Revision: 3546


Displays:
Acer H236HL:
Resolution: 1920 x 1080 @ 60 Hz
Pixel Depth: 32-Bit Color (ARGB8888)
Display Serial Number: (edited)
Main Display: Yes
Mirror: Off
Online: Yes
Rotation: Supported
Television: Yes


Television????????



Is this behaving normally? Is there some minimum brightness/contrast level that, by design, it always has to revert to? What can I try to get the brightness and contrast levels to remain steady? Needing to constantly adjust the brightness and contrast gets really old fast. Will the same thing happen with a replacement? Is this monitor incompatible with Mac?



New monitor, which I would hate to have the hassle of having to return.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 8:12 pm 
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MB? Any ideas?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 8:48 pm 
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My Acers are older models, and while they do take a little while to warm up, they don't vary their brightness. Your particular model is different, but Acer makes a billion models so that's not entirely unusual. The warm up period has become much more pronounced as they've aged, which is why I suspect they're CCFL backlit (it would also explain their price).

I'm still in the middle of move hell so I'm probably not the best person to ask at this point. I spend all day diagnosing all kinds of weird issues so by the time I get home I'm pretty zonked. The new phone system is wonderfully VOIP but the installation left a lot for me to do.

What it certainly sounds like is an odd interaction between the Mac & the display. I can't change the brightness, etc. from the Mac, only through the on-screen interface. Perhaps if you disabled features like DDC, etc. it would yield results? I dunno. That's about all I can guess about at the moment.


Last edited by MonkeyBoy on Thu Nov 05, 2015 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:59 am 
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Since my system report for graphics/displays, just below, was showing "Television," I googled around a bit for that and came up with several posts that said that means the monitor is not being recognized by the Mac.

Displays:
Acer H236HL:
Resolution: 1920 x 1080 @ 60 Hz
Pixel Depth: 32-Bit Color (ARGB8888)
Display Serial Number: LX1AA0034210
Main Display: Yes
Mirror: Off
Online: Yes
Rotation: Supported
Television: Yes


Quote:
>>This is my graphics card information in System Report. Can anyone tell me what "Television: Yes" means?
>>It means your monitor is unrecognized and described as a television..
http://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/ ... elevision/


Not my symptoms, and have no idea if this will fix the brightness issue, but found this as a possible fix. Not sure if I should try this. Excerpt follows:

Quote:
Force RGB mode in Mac OS X to fix the picture quality of an external monitor

I recently bought a MacBook Pro (with ‘Retina’ screen), but when I hooked it up to my Dell U2410 monitor via HDMI cable I was shocked by the poor picture quality. The contrast was all wrong and text was misshapen. No amount of calibration in the monitor or software would fix it.

Short answer: OS X thinks my monitor is a TV, and is using the YCbCr colour space rather than RGB. I had to override an EDID setting to force the RGB colour space, and it is now working correctly...

full instructions: http://www.ireckon.net/2013/03/force-rg ... ent-page-3)


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:04 am 
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So, there's no Input setting on the Monitor?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:43 am 
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BDAqua wrote:
So, there's no Input setting on the Monitor?

Nope, there's an input and it's seeing HDMI.

So, DLd this zip, extracted it and moved the folder into /System/Library/Displays/Overrides, (no idea what that was supposed to accomplish), rebooted, and it did nothing to the sys report, which is still showing Television.

And what is interesting is that all the color profiles on the Mini are already showing Space: RGB.

Downloaded this zip from https://gist.github.com/adaugherity/7435890

Then entered "patch-edid.rb" No such file or directory

I wish I knew WTF I was doing. I haven't got a clue. No idea even if this is meant for the issue I'm seeing. Just that "Television" seems to mean that the Monitor isn't being recognized, or fully recognized, by the Mini.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 9:53 am 
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The monitors I've seen or heard of had some kind of Input setting, like TV/DVR/Computer, etc.

This from an older Acer PDF...
Quote:
DDC
To make your installation easier, the monitor is able to Plug and Play with
your system if your system also supports DDC protocol. The DDC (Display
Data Channel) is a communication protocol through which the monitor
automatically informs the host system about its capabilities, for example,
supported resolutions and corresponding timing. The monitor supports
DDC2B standard.

Are these the OCD options you have?

Main
Menu
icon
Sub
Menu
icon
Sub
Menu
item
Description
N/A User mode User defined. Settings can be fine-tuned to
suit any situation
N/A
N/A Standard
mode
Default Setting. Reflects native display
capability
N/A Grahpic
mode
Enhances colors and emphasize fine detail.
Pictures and photographs appear in vibrant
colors with sharp detail.
N/A Movie
mode
Displays scenes in clearest detail. Presents
great visuals, even in unsuitably-lit
environments.
Features and Benefits
mode
ECO Adjusts thesettings to reduce power
consumption.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:12 am 
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Not sure I can make much out of that list of options, but the OSD has all the options from that pdf I linked earlier, page 8. Doesn't have TV/DVD/Computer input. Ports are D-Sub, DVI, HDMI

The operative word is " IF your system also supports DDC protocol." I've temporarily turned off the DDC and seen no difference.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:21 pm 
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Been pondering this...

I wonder if after a change in settings if the Mac might need restarting or the connection to the Monitor disrupted before they take effect on both ends?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 1:21 pm 
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BDAqua wrote:
Been pondering this...

I wonder if after a change in settings if the Mac might need restarting or the connection to the Monitor disrupted before they take effect on both ends?

Thanks for the ongoing help with this, but been there done that.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:29 pm 
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Is it too late to do the return hassle?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 3:11 pm 
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Not too late, but concerned that if I replace it with the same, I'll have the same issue. Didn't have this with the old Samsung LCD/LED TV. The brightness level remained constant. And if I don't replace with the another of the same model, no idea what to get.

I'm not having the the YcBcR issue that seems to accompany the sys report "Television" issue, and all the color profiles say "rgb" (if that's where YcBcR would show up.) But I'm still thinking that, from what I googled before, "Television" in the sys report means that the Mini is not completely seeing the Acer, and that's what's causing the brightness issue. Or maybe whoever said that didn't know that the sys report defaults to "Television" with certain connections, and monitors, and it doesn't mean that at all.

You could say I'm a little confused.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 3:24 pm 
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Television likely just means it's seeing the monitor is connected over HDMI, or from an HDMI output to an HDMI input.

Perhaps if you connected it HDMI to DVI (or VGA) it would break the "capabilities" of the display.

I have a simple HDMI to DVI adapter that my Mini shipped with, heck I had a couple here at work but put them to use in strange Displayport to HDMI to DVI to display daisy chains (one of these days things will slow down enough to place an order for less chaotic equipment, like DP to DVI adapters). I could dig around at home this weekend and if I find it ship it out to you if you want to try that.

Sorry for the trouble WZZZ, I've honestly never seen an Acer display with this issue. Now that I'm at the new campus there's Acer displays all over the place and they're apparently all working fine too. Maybe return that model and get a completely different model? It's not like an exchange (for the same model) is likely to make any difference.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 6:51 pm 
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If it makes you feel any better, my display at home (ASUS VN248) is connected to my Mini using an HDMI to HDMI cable, and it also is listed as a television. I think this particular tidbit may just be normal for HDMI displays connected via an HDMI port.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:31 pm 
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If the image on the display is nice and sharp I'd ignore that it's listed as "Television." It seems to me unlikely this is related to the brightness floating problem. To me that problem sounds like frequency regulation in the backlight electronics. I suspect the LED backlight brightness is controlled by high frequency pulse width modulation and it might be sensitive to some slightly flaky input to the components that generate that signal.

- Anonymous


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 5:47 am 
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As I am indefatigable when it comes to customer support, called Acer back yesterday and finally got a Level 2, who was both competent and cooperative, and not a total schmuck, like the idiot I spoke to the day before. He decided that the monitor was most likely defective, and ruled out (mostly) the possibility that the problem was coming from the Mini. They have offered me free shipping back, and they will either repair or replace. Repair would mean just replacing the panel, although that would seem silly of them, as with the time and labor involved, that wouldn't seem to be cost effective.

Anyway, now faced with the choice of either sending it back to Acer, with a repair possible (and not sure I completely trust what that would mean), or to Amazon, who will issue a full refund, plus the difference from a new third party seller, who I know zilch about. The best would probably be if Newegg puts it on sale again soon, at $120, then I wouldn't hesitate just sending it back to Amazon, and end of story with Amazon.

What's also interesting is that in my troubleshooting the "Television" issue, which led to a new awareness of Displays>Overrides, I completely removed the 7 or 8 Overrides folders (with a reboot), including one generated by SwitchResX (I had removed all bits and pieces of that, except for this single Overrides file), which made zero difference to anything. Not really sure what Displays>Overrides is supposed to do.


EDIT: after reading some horror stories about Acer warranty repair (more than a few reporting that, after bubble wrapping properly, Acer claimed the screen was cracked and refused repair), decided to send it back to Amazon and order another from what appears to be a reliable third-party seller. Fingers crossed.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 5:25 pm 
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Today NewEgg put an ASUS 23" IPS display on sale for $115. It's not the same model as mine (which is 23.something") though.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6824236583

The special ends tomorrow at midnight at the latest.

Sorry, it just popped into my mailbox today and I thought of you. I couldn't remember if you'd ordered the replacement yet or what.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 8:25 pm 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
Today NewEgg put an ASUS 23" IPS display on sale for $115. It's not the same model as mine (which is 23.something") though.

I'm sure it's fine monitor once you turn off their image-mangling crap.

ASUS-exclusive VividPixel Technology®™, oh please just shoot me.

No ASUS, your monitor is a commodity monitor that can differentiate itself from every other monitor for sale on the basis of exactly two things: 1) price, and 2) bezel/stand. (They're presently aiming only for #1). Proprietary image-ruining "features" do not make your monitor special; they make it worse. They also don't make your competitors monitor special, and yes, your competitors also all have awful proprietary image-ruining features of their own, and yes, they too make the monitors worse. Just display what the computer sends. You're welcome.

- Anonymous


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 8:43 pm 
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Is it because most people are watching TV on their "computers"?


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