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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:10 pm 
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Hi, just want to know how to upgrade from OS X 10.0.3 Cheetah to Tiger (DVD Retail) :) via FireWire connected to other Mac on iBook G3. Thanks.


Last edited by Christianreal on Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:01 am 
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Welcome aboard Christianreal ! :welcome:

Which way are we going? What is this other Mac? Which Mac has a dVD or CD Player?

I'd suspect Target Disk Mode isn't going to work and not sure if Sys Prefs>Sharing>DVD & CD Sharing existed in Cheetah.
https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/target-disk-mode-guide/

Can you tell us more about the setup, & maybe how you found our little site in this huge world of Internet?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:58 am 
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I don't think disc sharing will work with certain types of discs such such as installer DVDs. You might be able to boot the other computer to the installer disc, then attach the target computer started in Target Disk Mode so it appears as an external drive which would present itself as an install option. I never used Cheetah so I don't know if all these were features back then.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:46 pm 
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Yeah, installation isn't going to work from disc sharing.

In theory if he mounts the Cheetah disk on an old G4/G5 Mac via Firewire and then install Tiger onto it, it should work once out of target disk mode, although the G4/G5 will want to boot from the disk first for initial setup (and you probably should go along with that).

Otherwise an external firewire dvd drive would be an option, if you can find one.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:52 pm 
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BDAqua wrote:
Welcome aboard Christianreal ! :welcome:

Which way are we going? What is this other Mac? Which Mac has a dVD or CD Player?

I'd suspect Target Disk Mode isn't going to work and not sure if Sys Prefs>Sharing>DVD & CD Sharing existed in Cheetah.
https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/target-disk-mode-guide/

Can you tell us more about the setup, & maybe how you found our little site in this huge world of Internet?


Hi sorry for the late response. I don’t get notifications on this. I would install connected to MacBook Pro 2011 with FireWire 800-400. I ordered so many parts for this computer.. I bought a SuperDrive for the exact same model I own! From Europe though.. Ok, I was on an Apple forum, and was trying to reply to BD Aqua, then I saw this link that popped up in their description. I clicked on it and I found this forum. I saw some really helpful things, so I registered. I found a video on how to install via FireWire. My iBook has the CD drive. The MacBook has the DVD drive.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:57 pm 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
Yeah, installation isn't going to work from disc sharing.

In theory if he mounts the Cheetah disk on an old G4/G5 Mac via Firewire and then install Tiger onto it, it should work once out of target disk mode, although the G4/G5 will want to boot from the disk first for initial setup (and you probably should go along with that).

Otherwise an external firewire dvd drive would be an option, if you can find one.


But, I could just wait until the SuperDrive comes... in a few weeks.. I don’t know if I should perform a G4 upgrade before or after I install the SuperDrive.. Just want to make sure that I have a way to install Tiger before the DVD drive comes. I might just wait until the 512 MB ram I ordered; the SuperDrive, and the Motorola 7410, to stay safe with compatibility so that it will run fast. I wasn’t able to find a FireWire DVD Drive that supports USB 1.1.. Oh well. Here is the link that has the upgrades I am trying to perform..

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/ib ... e.2240213/


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 3:44 am 
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For sanity I'd try to install before doing any changes.

I should add there was a rare 4 or 5 CD set of Tiger Install Disks for people that didn't have a DVD drive, I had a set somewhere, but have been unable to find them.

Ah here they are...

https://www.macintoshrepository.org/138 ... cs-1-4-cd-

BTW, we have an Intro section if you wish to letr us know more about you///

https://x704.net/bbs/viewforum.php?f=31


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:03 am 
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Some information on limitations you are facing. -

A computer must boot to the installer discs to install a system either to its own drive or to another drive.

PPC generation Macs can only boot to a drive inside the computer or to a drive attached by Firewire. You are buying a Superdrive but that will be a USB drive. The iBook almost certainly will not boot to it.

Disc Sharing allows a computer to share an optical drive in another computer, but certain types of discs cannot be shared, including installer discs.


If your iBook still has a working optical drive (and often those slot drives filled with dust and failed after 4 years or so) then BDAqua's solution using CDs will hopefully work. Otherwise I don't see a way to perform the upgrade using the hardware you list. If somebody has an unaltered installed, bootable copy of Tiger on a backup drive it might be possible to clone that to iBook if the iBook is in Target Disk Mode.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 6:25 am 
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Limnos, actually some iBooks, PowerBooks & eMacs could boot OSX from USB, some Macs can be tricked into booting from USB...

Booting your iBook G4 from a USB stick
So I spent the better half of the night trying to figure out how to make my iBook G4 boot from a USB stick. I have the Leopard ISO, but none of my DVD drives will burn Dual Layer, so I needed to use the USB route.

However, none of the nonsense I found on the Internet could give me proper instructions. The system itself doesn't directly support it (holding down option during power-on doesn't show it either).

So I had to dig into my OpenFirmware roots and do it the old fashion way. So here's the quick tip for the rest of you out there (hopefully Google will eventually pull this up in page ranks so it gets hit first and saves people time).

1. Plug in the USB device where you have copied your bootable system to (I do not cover this part since it's well covered already, google is your friend).
2. Power on your iBook and hold down Command+Option+O+F. This will take you into the OpenFirmware. Scary looking if your not a computer type person.
3. Once you see the screen go white with some text on it, you can release the keys in the previous step.
4. Type "boot ud:,\\:tbxi" and if you're lucky, it will start booting from your USB device. If not, continue on.
5. Type "dev usb0" at the little ">" prompt and hit return.
6. Type "ls". If you see something like "/disk@1", continue, else go to the previous step and use "usb1" instead.
7. If you get here and you haven't seen something like "/disk@1", then you're likely screwed, sorry.
8. Type "dev disk@1" and hit return, and then "pwd" and hit return again. You should see something that looks like "/pci@f2000000/usb1b,1/disk@1". You will use this in the next step.
9. Type "boot /pci@f2000000/usb1b,1/disk@1:,\\:tbxi". This is the device part you got in the last step after typing "pwd" with ":,\\:tbxi" added to the end.
10. Moment of truth, hit enter. You should now be booting into your USB drive. IT WILL BE SLOW SO BE PATIENT

This should also work on other PPC Mac's that don't normally boot from USB, such as G3s.
https://ben-collins.blogspot.com/2010/0 ... stick.html

https://apple.stackexchange.com/questio ... -usb-stick


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:34 am 
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Yes. I did actually try those installer discs, but I press restart and then it boots up to the “happy mac”. It just won’t boot from the Macintosh Garden (extracted .toasts.) I don’t have a usb 1.1 flash drive, maybe there is another way?

I try pressing restart to start installing and it just boots up to OS X 10.0.3. If I boot up with Option, it doesn’t recognize the discs as bootable. Oh well..

If FireWire, I would have the MacBook with the DVD drive boot into Target Disc Mode while connected to the iBook so that it sees the install dvd as bootable. I have no idea why the ROMs never work.. I’ve wasted 18 CD’s on this.. I actually did burn one perfect Cheetah install disc, but the disc shattered and I couldn’t find where I downloaded it..

Installing Tiger is SUCH a hassle!! :(


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:36 am 
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I will do all of the steps you sent.. but the iBook is only able to read USB 1, right?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 11:22 am 
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It won't boot to the Macintosh Garden. You have to download the disc images and then use a CD burner to burn them to CDs so you have the correct CD structure of the original discs. You then boot to the first CD inserted into your iBook.

Your iBook will not boot to USB.* It doesn't matter which version. It will only boot to the internal drive, or a CD inserted into the optical drive with a supported system installer disc, or if you have the system already installed to an external drive and that is connected by Firewire. Later all everything changed and Macs were designed to no longer support Firewire booting and USB booting was introduced. Your 2011 Mac is that kind whereas your iBook is from a very different generation.

*Edit: Just saw BDAqua's post. Well, if you can follow all of that and make it work. ;) If it does work and you have USB 1 then it will be very slow. Leave at least 5 minutes for it to boot that way.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 11:38 am 
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Limnos wrote:
It won't boot to the Macintosh Garden. You have to download the disc images and then use a CD burner to burn them to CDs so you have the correct CD structure of the original discs. You then boot to the first CD inserted into your iBook.

Your iBook will not boot to USB.* It doesn't matter which version. It will only boot to the internal drive, or a CD inserted into the optical drive with a supported system installer disc, or if you have the system already installed to an external drive and that is connected by Firewire. Later all everything changed and Macs were designed to no longer support Firewire booting and USB booting was introduced. Your 2011 Mac is that kind whereas your iBook is from a very different generation.

*Edit: Just saw BDAqua's post. Well, if you can follow all of that and make it work. ;) If it does work and you have USB 1 then it will be very slow. Leave at least 5 minutes for it to boot that way.


Yes I did that. Downloaded it, extracted it, burned it. It had all of the files for Tiger. Do they even sell USB 1 flash drives that I could buy? I’ll check eBay..


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:45 pm 
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I know that USB2 flash drives that are still quite common are USB1 compatible. Anything that only had USB1 was probably too small for your purposes. I think I have a drive I spent $80 on in the early days of flash drives and it held 1 GB. I am not sure if it was USB1 only, or if it wasUSB2 compatible with USB1.

Don't forget that unless you can achieve USB booting with your computer that a flash drive won't help. If you can achieve USB booting then just use a Superdrive with the discs. You can't write the discs to the flash drive and try it that way -- at least all the times I have seen people mention they wanted to do that it ddidn't work. The computer and installer software is pretty smart about knowing what hardware you are using.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 1:36 pm 
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Does this G3 have a CD Drive?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:12 pm 
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iBook has a CD drive. My SuperDrive from a M6497 Snow iBook is coming from France; was shipped an hour ago. Should be here in two weeks. I’ll look for a USB 1 flash drive..


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:44 pm 
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USB2 flash drives should work most of the time if nit too large & requiring too many mA.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:54 pm 
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USB 1 and 2 had the same power ratings, 500ma.

If he has access to another powerpc system he could put the ibook g3 into target disk mode and then install 10.4.11 using the other system. This is assuming the g3 is the firewire version, which is the only ibook g3 capable of running 10.4.11...


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 3:30 pm 
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Thanks MB. :)


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:17 pm 
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Yes, it has FireWire (400). I just don’t have another PowerPc Mac.... Doubt it but would an emulator on a Mac work to install?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:27 pm 
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Extremely extremely unlikely since it'd also have to emulate the firewire bus which is quite complex.

Sounds like a Tiger DVD is your best bet. Ideally your DVD should look like this one and not like this. The latter are system-specific, they'll only install on the Mac they shipped with, the former is a retail disc that'll boot any Mac older than the date the disc was pressed (which definitely includes your iBook).


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 8:35 am 
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I think a Tiger CD set (not DVD) is your best bet if your iBook's internal optical drive is CD only. A flash drive of any kind won't help you at all. An external drive connected by USB such as a Superdrive won't help you unless you can somehow achieve USB booting using the instructions BDAqua provided.

Apple designs its system installation to be done on a limited set of completely functioning, supported equipment. I remember some G3s weren't even supported and you had to use a third party utility to install Tiger. I suspect if any G3s were directly supported your model was one of the last in line to be supported and if supported models had a CD drive then a CD is what you were supposed to use.

This is where having another working computer of a similar age can help, and somebody who does this is most likely to be somebody who has a pile of old equipment and software of this generation. It is like my 39 year old car. The nearest and most likely only source for spare parts for it is my other 39 year old car parked next to it. Not only have connectors changed but so has the kind of hard drive.. There are other ways to get the system onto that computer but the problem is you either have to have it installed on another computer or you have to be able to do one of several ways of tricking the installation using a group of older equipment.

Something that would not be fun would be to see if you could swap out the CD drive in the computer for a DVD drive. Of course then arises the issue if you can find one on the market today that has a compatible connector. Then arises the issue if it supports booting in your Mac. Sometimes a swapped drive only works after the system is up and running.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 10:03 am 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
Extremely extremely unlikely since it'd also have to emulate the firewire bus which is quite complex.

Sounds like a Tiger DVD is your best bet. Ideally your DVD should look like this one and not like this. The latter are system-specific, they'll only install on the Mac they shipped with, the former is a retail disc that'll boot any Mac older than the date the disc was pressed (which definitely includes your iBook).


Yes my Tiger is in that box, on the side it says it supports a G3, a G4, or a G5. Yeah.... that would be hard swapping optical drives. But also, i’m picking up an iBook and a MacBook today for free- maybe I could connect via FireWire to the iBook if it were on OS X Tiger! Ah! It might have a DVD drive.. Maybe the MacBook is the MacBook Pro from 06’ running Tiger, then I can connect Via FireWire....

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:22 pm 
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I think the OSX for Intel Macs is a different build than the PPC build. So if you managed to install using the MB it would boot on the iBook. Most Tiger retail kits were PPC only. But you could go iBook to iBook if they both have FW ports.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:37 pm 
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I seem to remember this being a topic of discussion a decade or more ago but I can't remember if it really was determined that there was a difference between the installation done for an Intel vs. a PPC Mac. It's the kind of thing Apple would like for you to believe but I don't remember if it was actually the case. I know the retail Tiger discs wouldn't boot an Intel Mac because all the machine specific Tiger discs that came with the first Intel Macs had a higher version on them than the retail version discs. Something similar happened with Snow Leopard discs too if I recall correctly. People lose their Snow Leopard machine discs and try to use a retail disc but the machine discs come with 10.6.8 and the retail ones only had 10.6.3 and wouldn't boot a certain generation of computers.


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