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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 7:23 pm 
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Apple has either let a nasty bug get into its APFS filesystem or has purposely just killed third party backup software. It's too soon to tell, but knowing Apple I'm already depressed at the possibilities...

Here are the juicy details.

Yay.

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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 3:10 am 
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Add to that another quite obnoxious move from Apple. Latest 2020-003 for Mojave permanently removes ability to disable red badge notification for Catalina. They're really pushing 10.15 like a sleazy vinyl siding salesman. First thing you see from SU now is Catalina, then a not very noticeable "oh and by the way, there's another update." Not shown very prominently, the one you actually care about, like a Safari point update. A lot of users will be tricked into upgrading to this Catalina garbage completely unprepared to lose all their 32 bit apps, and more.

My guess for this move is that they haven't seen as many Catalina adopters as they would like, or they just want more control, like can't let some users disregard their incessant nagging. Or Apple's engineers working from home with too much time on their hands with nothing better to do than fix what isn't broken.

Some workarounds, but only temporary:

https://tinyapps.org/blog/202005070700_ ... badge.html

https://lapcatsoftware.com/articles/sof ... pdate.html

EDIT: This works to remove red badge so long as you don't check via SU, which will make it reappear (takes a little while to take effect)

defaults delete com.apple.preferences.softwareupdate LatestMajorOSSeenByUserBundleIdentifier && softwareupdate --list

Then to check for updates without making red badge reappear, use

softwareupdate --list


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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 7:15 am 
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Thanks ST & WZZZ for the news, though depressing it be.


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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 5:00 am 
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I'm very glad I'm still on Sierra... and will stay put... for software compatibility reasons.

Also, I detest pushy sales approaches. It's clear what they want is for THEIR benefit, not ours.

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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 8:30 pm 
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I kinda wished I could have stayed on Sierra for my personal 2012 Mac Pro and two Hackintoshes… but work and non-work related thingies sorta forced me to upgrade to High Sierra for cross-compatibility reasons (including my iPhone as well in that matrix of compatibility needs). Still holding off for as long as I can, although my work-supplied 2019 15" MacBook Pro running Mojave has been “mostly flawless” since September 2019, despite having applied all software updates (third party and Apple). Relying on work-provided backup software, so we shall see how that goes.

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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 11:39 pm 
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My Macbook Pro was fine on Mojave, my CMP was tempramental. Not horrific, but lots and lots of niggly little things that eventually made me regress both back to High Sierra. HS just runs better on my CMP and is less buggy. Because I did the firmware update to get NVMe booting so I'm stuck with HS and Mojave as the only working OSes on the machine (as long as I want to run from that NVMe drive).


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 8:08 am 
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I too am kinda happy sticking with Sierra on my cMP... BUT I figure by around labor day to thanksgiving I am going to HAVE to go HS as my game has an expansion that is going to require it. I even have a very geeky plan all laid out to also get my firmware up to the latest rev.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:43 am 
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paulc wrote:
I too am kinda happy sticking with Sierra on my cMP... BUT I figure by around labor day to thanksgiving I am going to HAVE to go HS as my game has an expansion that is going to require it. I even have a very geeky plan all laid out to also get my firmware up to the latest rev.


What game will require it? WoW 9.0 (Shadowlands) will run on 10.12.6, but will nag you every time you start it up. I can possibly see FF14 requiring it, but only if they are using ray tracing in Metal (Catalina or later only), but even then that isn't likely a locked in feature that is always on since no current Mac hardware can do ray tracing. Macs won't get that until Navi 2 comes out.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:24 am 
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Ohhh, my understanding is Shadowlands will REQUIRE High Sierra. I have seen the nag for a while now. I can guess Metal in Sierra is different from HS, but I never got a straight answer about what going HS does for the game. I DO have a bunch of work to do on the hardware side... see if I have any thermal connectivity issues (northbridge) with my current CPU tray, see what a spare try I got can do, that has to wait for fall when my breastbone is fully healed.

Plus another thing I can't do now is to get my firmware up to 144.0.0. THAT is kinda important because should me current 2 SSD array bite the dust hardware-wise, I should go NVMe... AND I have questions about that, is it worthwhile to try and RAID them... there seems to be several issues (like recovery partitions, will I be forced into APFS) there.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 4:04 am 
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paulc wrote:
Ohhh, my understanding is Shadowlands will REQUIRE High Sierra. I have seen the nag for a while now. I can guess Metal in Sierra is different from HS, but I never got a straight answer about what going HS does for the game. I DO have a bunch of work to do on the hardware side... see if I have any thermal connectivity issues (northbridge) with my current CPU tray, see what a spare try I got can do, that has to wait for fall when my breastbone is fully healed.

Plus another thing I can't do now is to get my firmware up to 144.0.0. THAT is kinda important because should me current 2 SSD array bite the dust hardware-wise, I should go NVMe... AND I have questions about that, is it worthwhile to try and RAID them... there seems to be several issues (like recovery partitions, will I be forced into APFS) there.


APFS will not install to a RAID volume. Period. You can technically clone to it, but it won't install to it. In fact RAID volumes are supposed to not be converted to APFS automatically, though I'm sure Apple "broke" that at some point already. Unless you're constantly writing huge files in say, RAW format to the drive(s), don't bother with a RAID if you go NVMe. It's pointless. You'll almost never make good use of that extra speed and have a ton of downsides should anything go south on you again. JBOD them instead.

Shadowlands will nag you to no end if you aren't on 10.14.6 or later, but it will run on Sierra, at least from what I understand through my contacts. The only graphics option that would require Catalina or later would be ray tracing, and there isn't any AMD hardware out yet that does such. Only nVidia, which isn't supported anymore thanks to Apple blocking them from making drivers. The only real difference with Metal in 10.13 vs. 10.12 is Metal Family 2 support. If you have a modern GPU, nothing changes for you.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:38 am 
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paulc wrote:
Plus another thing I can't do now is to get my firmware up to 144.0.0. THAT is kinda important because should me current 2 SSD array bite the dust hardware-wise, I should go NVMe... AND I have questions about that, is it worthwhile to try and RAID them... there seems to be several issues (like recovery partitions, will I be forced into APFS) there.


I have an NVME boot drive (APFS) and a pair of SSDs on the SATA2 bus as RAID0 (HFS). Additionally to the things Squishy has brought up, you cannot boot from the RAID0 volume as far as I'm aware. You can buy a NVME switch card and install it in a 16 lane PCI slot and get very silly performance however from multiple NVME on the card. Though unless you really, really need that sort of performance, I'd argue it as being a big case of diminishing returns.

The 512GB NVME drive and card I used cost a little over £100 and comfortably is writing over 1GB/s, reading at up to 1.5GB/s. An SSD on the SATA bus will just slam against the SATA2 limits of 250MB/s, in RAID0 you're looking at around 450MB/s. In reality these are both so much faster than HDD that the difference in speed between the SSD and the NVME I don't really notice in most normal day to day running.

The last bit of advice is to be careful on the NVME drive you use. Some don't like the cMP. Samsung Polaris drives seem to be ok (which is what I'm using).


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:38 am 
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You can boot your cMP from a hardware type raid controller (2 types).

1. PCI type with its own Apple boot firmware that loads during the
boot process. eg: Areca PCI RAID cards
2. A sata attached Hardware RAID device eg: Addonics Snap-in 25 Raid
or similar device. With a cMP though not much speed to be gained due to
cMP's sata 2 bus speeds, however it is generally quicker than a single SSD
hooked to the same cMP data bus.

When running with MacOS that supports NVME there may some hardware
PCIe RAID cards that are bootable such as the Highpoint SSD7110.
You are pretty much on your own though in this territory unless
you have one of the new 2019 Mac Pro's.

This is my RAID setup:
https://www.maxupgrades.com/istore/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=452&ParentCat=351

I'm using SSD's rather than Spinners. 1100 MB/s with 2 SSD's. Burst rates from Areca's
built in read cache is around 3000 MB/s. Areca also has a write cache which I usually
disable as that tends to demolish consumer SSD's for some reason. I plan to replace
regular SSD's with M2 NVME SSD's in the near future and see if that works better.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:27 am 
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Indeed I have been thinking that when the day comes to go NVME, it's goodbye to a striped array. I wonder about running 2 NVMEs as one logical volume, i.e. concatenating them? I COULD always use a second stick to clone my main stick... BUT I have plenty of spinner slots for that. So most likely it will be a single 1T NVME.

My PCI/SATA?SSD RAID boot drive get me roughly 600-650 MB/s i.o. From what I read, I SHOULD be able to get more than double that with a single NVME and that is just fine with me.

I wonder if there is any benefit to going to H.Sierra (10.13.x) for WoW?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:16 am 
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10.13.6 contains fixes to Metal that are not present in the 10.12.x drivers. That's the benefit. The downside is you lose the OS' built in FTP server in 10.13 because Apple stripped it out. You can get it via Brew, but really, who the fuck wants Brew on their system these days? You're just better off getting an Interarchy license.

10.13's drivers resolved an issue with Pascal GPUs (nVidia) where Metal apps had "hitching" and microstutters. You'll want that fix for WoW, believe me.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:07 am 
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Ah... my 980 is Maxwell, not Pascal, no hitches or stutters noticed. No need to run a local ftp server (I did that kind of stuff way back when I was actively working).

So the question becomes, any advantage in WoW to the updated Metal drivers in 10.13.x using a Maxwell GPU?

BTW, the "nag" I am seeing NOW is a graphic on my character selection screen. Don't think they have Shadowlands on the PTR just yet...


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:55 am 
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Even Maxwell drivers have bugfixes in 10.13. It's strongly recommended to move to that OS as the minimum for Shadowlands. Some things are already appearing slightly broken on Sierra there. Not like I could check for myself since I'm not in the alpha/beta despite being one of those that needs accessibility testing to see if he can play at launch. Oh well. Less money for Blizz, more money for Path of Exile.

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