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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:43 pm 
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Mojave is absolutely contrary to install on Mac pro 5.1 lately.
I tried dosdude's tricks and everything else with no luck.
Every Error Apple that could come up, came up (install file damaged,
install not supported, no compatible metal card detected, etc.).

Someone mentioned Mojave installer had an expiration date.
That seems to be part of the problem. Raid array might have
been an issue as well (not for sure though).

Seems that the latest Mojave installer in the app store is the
expired one. Had to go to support.apple.com to even find it.
Turns out I had the same one they did. No newer version
exists that I can find. If Apple has a newer version, it's well hidden.

Here's what I did to get around all those issues:

1. install High Sierra on an external, update it fully, set the date back to
early September.
2. Unplug the cMP from the internet.
3. Start the Mojave installer from High Sierra.
4. install.
5. Success! Firmware updated to 144.0.0.0.0, Metal supported,
Installed on Areca hardware Raid 0. It did convert HFS to APFS
during the install.

Seems the Mojave installer helper is the culprit. Internet off - helper
not downloaded. Install proceeds without it, after a minute or so.

Get a list of Mojave compatible Nvidia Kepler cards here:
http://www.macvidcards.com/store/c16/MacOS_10.14_Mojave_Compatible.html

Mojave works fine so far, video works well even in HD. Glad I didn't
shell out for a Radeon RX580 or something. My Nvidia card GTX 770
works with OSX 10.6 - 10.14. Dark mode, light mode, fonts, all Just Peachy.

:)

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:44 pm 
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Kepler cards have support in the built in drivers. It's the Maxwell/Pascal/Turing cards that don't.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:06 pm 
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Hi Tia:

What gets me is the difficulty involved in the Mojave upgrade.
It is ridiculous. Even Dosdude's homegrown software detected
my MP qualified for Mojave. Apple on the other hand thought not,
causing me 16 hours or more of tinkering before actually getting
the job done. I believe apple's so called "Installation Helper Software"
was totally to blame (the popup box you have to check yes before the
installation moves forth). Cutting the MP loose from the internet
so it couldn't download that garbage was the only solution.

There are quite a few stories around the internet of guys (and Gals)
swapping video cards around just to get Mojave installed, and then
putting back in their metal capable original card after OS installation.

Some even give up and shell out money for a new video card
when all the while the original card wasn't even at fault.

On to the next project... :D

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 3:52 am 
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kjk555 wrote:
Hi Tia:

What gets me is the difficulty involved in the Mojave upgrade.
It is ridiculous. Even Dosdude's homegrown software detected
my MP qualified for Mojave. Apple on the other hand thought not,
causing me 16 hours or more of tinkering before actually getting
the job done. I believe apple's so called "Installation Helper Software"
was totally to blame (the popup box you have to check yes before the
installation moves forth). Cutting the MP loose from the internet
so it couldn't download that garbage was the only solution.

There are quite a few stories around the internet of guys (and Gals)
swapping video cards around just to get Mojave installed, and then
putting back in their metal capable original card after OS installation.

Some even give up and shell out money for a new video card
when all the while the original card wasn't even at fault.

On to the next project... :D


The original card might not be at fault (technically), but if it is not supported by the OS' built in drivers, the installer cannot detect a Metal capable GPU as a result. That's why the swap is necessary for the install task. Without drivers to accelerate the GPU, the card functions only as a 2D unaccelerated raster at native resolution for your display. Anything that performs a check for Metal, even if the GPU is capable of support under Metal, will fail so long as no working drivers are installed.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:38 am 
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Interestingly enough, some Nvidia and Nvidia GeoForce drivers
are included in Mojave. I didn't see any Cuda drivers though.

I think the "Installation Helper" internet download has some
incorrect data in it about Nvidia video cards. With out it loaded,
the Mojave installer never missed a beat on install.

Mojave's generic Nvidia drivers seem to work pretty well.
Nvidia has yet to release any Mojave drivers themselves.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:01 am 
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My bet is those are not "nVidia" drivers, but something generic. I have a flashed GTX 980 and not only does it have a boot screen, but it does give me video absent "drivers." That video does comes with some glitches and I dou8bt any of the acceleration works at all... just enough video to go get the drovers for that build of the OS.

From everything I have read, it seems nVidia HAS Mojave drivers BUT can not release them because Cupertino will not sign them. THAT is how they prevent nVidia from distributing them.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:13 pm 
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All modern Apple OSes have built in nVidia drivers, but only for the Kepler GPU family (6xx/7xx series). They don't have any 9xx/1xxx/2xxx support. Those require nVidia's own web drivers, and as such starting with Mojave, are not available because Apple is blocking nVidia from publishing and releasing the drivers.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 1:17 am 
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I'd add that any card with an appropriate Mac ROM inside will display video w/o a driver but it's a dumb unaccelerated framebuffer video.

My understanding is that said dumb framebuffer is no longer supported in Mojave and beyond but I could be wrong on this front.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 3:22 am 
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So far, experimenting with Mojave has been interesting, but
the only things I see that has any useful improvement is dynamic
desktop mode (only two dynamic desktop pics though). Dark mode
might be handy.

Everything feels a bit slower. Actually seems to run faster in parallels
VM than on the main drive.

As far as new IOS functions go, I have no use for them anyway.

The only really good thing that came out of installing it was
the new firmware update. That helped Sierra and High Sierra
become more stable and responsive somehow.

I'll play with it some more, but so far I'm not impressed much. :)

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:07 am 
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As a fellow 5,1 user who 'upgraded' to Mojave, I've got to agree. I've yet to see a single upside in regular use for migrating from High Sierra other than the firmware update to fix the link speed issue on the PCI-E bus and add NVME booting. Which once done, works just fine in High Sierra. Dark mode is just a theme. I'm fairly certain I'm using nothing that utilises Metal. The one game I have that requires it (Divinity Original Sin 2) doesn't run on a 5,1. Not to mention it bugs me about the 32-bit software I'm still running every now and then that won't work in Catalina. Which would be fine if it remembered that it'd already bugged me about that.

I keep thinking that I should regress to High Sierra, but with them currently churning out 'new' OS's every year, it'd only be for a couple more years before that's out of support and I'd be once again coming back to it... So thought's are just to put up with it. But for anyone that hasn't gone to Mojave, personally I'd hold off for as long as is possible.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:40 am 
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The plans for my 5,1 is to stick not only with 10.13.6, but to stick with Boot ROM Version: MP51.007F.B03


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:20 pm 
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High Sierra is off life support next year. Mojave expires in 2021.

Guess this is what Tim Cook meant when he said he wanted to increase revenue by forcing people to buy new systems (though in far more flowery eight dollar prose).


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:55 am 
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I wouldn't actually have a problem with that if they hadn't stopped making lower end Power Macs / Mac Pros. Which are all I've ever run. I tried to run an iMac, it lasted maybe 6 months before I got frustrated with it's lack of expansion and sold it on. I tried running on a mini server once also, same problem. Currently I'm stuck on a 2010-2012 Mac Pro or the ball-ache that is a Hackintosh if I want to continue using Macs. It's frustrating.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 4:02 am 
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Once the last non-T2 system becomes unsupported the Hackintosh market is likely not long for this world. That's the entire reason Apple implemented the T2 chip.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:39 pm 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
Once the last non-T2 system becomes unsupported the Hackintosh market is likely not long for this world. That's the entire reason Apple implemented the T2 chip.


That's fine. It's why I build hackintoshes. I can keep the last OS that will work on it for OS X stuff like music and whatnot (because Windows still has no good M1 Arcade music player release yet even after ten years) and I can use Windows for gaming and everything else. Once I figure out the proper way to migrate my mail accounts from POP3 to IMAP so I can sync everything on all OSes, the last true screw binding me to OS X will have been removed.

Apple wants its proprietary security measures? It can have them. I'll have a computer that kicks any Mac's ass, stuffs it into a cannon and fires it into oblivion any day of the year.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:26 am 
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If it makes you feel better, Apple going on into the woods with T2 means that nobody is familiar with their hardware, even Apple's own engineers aren't familiar with it. And since nobody else uses it the problem is likely to get worse. They can't hire people who know it, and the people who do will retire or find jobs elsewhere. This is why firmware updates keep bricking T2 systems.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:04 pm 
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Squishy Tia wrote:
MonkeyBoy wrote:
Once the last non-T2 system becomes unsupported the Hackintosh market is likely not long for this world. That's the entire reason Apple implemented the T2 chip.


That's fine. It's why I build hackintoshes. I can keep the last OS that will work on it for OS X stuff like music and whatnot (because Windows still has no good M1 Arcade music player release yet even after ten years) and I can use Windows for gaming and everything else. Once I figure out the proper way to migrate my mail accounts from POP3 to IMAP so I can sync everything on all OSes, the last true screw binding me to OS X will have been removed.

Apple wants its proprietary security measures? It can have them. I'll have a computer that kicks any Mac's ass, stuffs it into a cannon and fires it into oblivion any day of the year.

-----
I never used Apple mail. I always have and still use Seamonkey. It is cross platform and has imap and pop.
It's been 100% reliable. I have many years of saved emails archived there. Thunderbird is Similar, but I like
Seamonkey better.

My next computer will most likely be a w3175 or Ryzen PC running Windows Server and VMware.
I started on Windows and BSD. My first Mac was a PC with a Beta version of Tiger that would boot
on a PC. It was fully functional, even ran parallels desktop without a hitch. :)
It was lovely.

There is no crying towel for me, I don't give a crap what Apple does anymore. They can have all
their priority based nonsense. The newest versions of Linux are pretty amazing and fast compared
to MacOS even when running in a Parallels VM. MacOS lately requires much more machine power to run
than it should. It's basically bloatware extraordinaire, rather than the (almost) sensible engineering it
used to be.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 5:12 pm 
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Folks:

Haven't stopped by in awhile, Happy New Year to the forum folk here. Today I started off the new year by running the "security updates" that were available for my various OSX 10.9, 12, 13, and 14 installs in my MP 5,1 . . . the one where I upgraded from the AMD card to a "metal-friendly" macvidcard nvidia GTX 780 and the 10.14 install/upgrade ran "OK" . . . I think I had to install 10.13 first in the fresh SSD that I got to keep the APFS formatting "separate" from the HFS installs (but that "apfs" seems to have left a stamp across the mobo??) . . . . But, the main problem I continue to find with 10.14 is that it won't "sleep" . . . previous to today's "security update" if I clicked "sleep" the screen would flash to black and then . . . "eyes wide open" the display was back. After today's 10.14.6 upgrade I clicked "sleep" and now display goes black, but machine keeps humming along . . . behind the blackness????

So, this brought me back to a conversation I had on the OpenSUSE forum, or it might have been the Siduction forum, where possibly TW/Siduction was not "suspending" or wasn't reviving from suspend and the guru's at that time suggested that I should install the proper nvidia drivers to get those functions working . . . which I did, and that did work. I checked today to see if macvidcard listed any 10.14 drivers and none were listed on his website. I did a Googly and found a few links to Nvidia forum saying, "It ain't gonna happen fu" . . . and I found a couple YT videos that purported to "hack" the drivers, but one guy was saying, "this will give you basic function but not acceleration" . . . but the process didn't look impossible, just question is is it worth the time?

At the time I did my nvidia card upgrade I think Squishy Tia said something like, "It will only give you a year of life" and that appears to have been very accurate, or more or less pretty accurate. As others have said here, 10.14 doesn't really do anything more than 10.13 . . . and as of late I spend most of my time in my MP in one of several linux installs as my daily driver . . . linux has come a long way in the last 12 years, and as far as running the machine and also having choices on video drivers for my card, some installs I am using "nouveau," some "proprietarydrivers" . . . and some "default generic" . . . I don't really need "acceleration" but I would like "function" and so far I'd have to say that 10.14 is kind of a burn . . . . :bonk:

At the time I went with it I was using iCloud to get my iPodTouch photos from the iPod into the machine for messing with, but 10.13 was still able to access the iCloud, haven't checked it lately since 10.15 came out, I was looking to be able to maintain the iCloud portal by moving to 10.14. But other than that the only really "critical" item in an OS is browser support, and in June I was still running FF on my MBP running 10.9 . . . moved that up to its latest capacity, 10.11 and FF should continue there for awhile . . . meaning that 10.13 should be viable for quite awhile.

So, part of my point to post here is that, yes the GTX 780 card runs on OSX, or OSX "runs it" but that isn't the for-realsie "nvidia drivers" doing that . . . but are OSX "hacks"?? Seems like maybe ST was saying that once 10.14 is installed with the "metal-friendly" card, the OEM AMD card might be put back and it would run 10.14?? But that would be a technical "regression" for the machine . . . .

I'm now trying to decide if I want to nuke/pave/wipe the SSD of 10.14 and do a fresh install of 10.13 to get a functioning OSX install, or I have one more drive tray that I could add another SSD into, put a partition for 10.13 in it, then pick a few linux OSs and use them most of the time--moving the 10.14 disk to the #4 slot for rainy days. There are some web sites and photo apps that don't work with linux, so having some iteration of OSX around can be handy . . . but, as others have posted here, seems like less and less reasons to stick with Apple machines . . . . OR, what, find a newer AMD card that is flashed for Mac and try to run that? Seems like this machine doesn't qualify for 10.15 so doesn't seem worth trying to stay with OSX "support" with it . . . running Lu 20.04 alpha/beta right now to get this typed up . . . seems to be working just fine. :coffee:

e.e.p.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 7:37 pm 
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Seems an AMD card is the only possible improvement, my old Mac Pro will be stuck using 10.13.6 without the patches that force APFS & loss of earlier OSXes native versions, it can natively boot 10.5.8 through 10.13.6 right now.

If pressed I think I could run 10.14 & 10.15 in a VM right now...


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:15 pm 
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Interesting . . . running 10.14 in a VM from 10.13???

Looks like you still have a basic ubuntu 12.04 . . . that makes sense . . . but 16.04??? wasn't the best distro of the beast . . . 18.04 is decent . . . you should upgrade that 16.04 distro asap . . . . :welcome:

I guess I'll have to wait and see whether I'll mess with the video card any further, or try to get 10.14 installed in VirtualBox????


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:29 pm 
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I'm running 10.13 and 10.14 in a Parallels VM now (From 10.12 host).
They are both pretty usable, especially now that I increased my cMP
on-board ram from 32gb to 64gb and gave the VM's the maximum
video and OS ram amounts and the max cpu settings (4). The apple
hypervisor seems to work the best.

The only glitch is the VM sound quality in 10.13 and 10.14. Hopefully
Parallels will fix that (Parallels 15) in a later update.

Manjaro (18.1.3) runs like a scalded dog in Parallels 15. Beautiful
sound and picture quality and awesome youtube HD video in full
screen.

Mojave runs a bit slower than High Sierra, probably due to APFS
(no APFS in High Sierra).

When Mojave updates run out, I'll change it to HFS with Paragon's
free APFS to HFS convertor app.

I'm running an osx flashed GTX 770.
I installed drivers for it on the High Sierra VM, which did
improve the video quality.

Red Hat's Fedora is a really smooth, stable and mature Linux
installation (VM) well suited for office use. You must use
the special parallels version that's available from the Parallels
installer menu.

:)

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:16 am 
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Quote:
you should upgrade that 16.04 distro asap . . . .

Monthly limited Data & Bandwidth is the problem here, will likely have to get 10.14 & 10.15 from some helper here.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:06 am 
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@kjk555:

Thanks for the review on the VM, haven't really messed with that too much, I mostly have bare metal installs going, just didn't like the "window in a window" aspect of the VM, but I do see the advantages of not having to re-boot . . . .

I still think Apple is one of the weirder companies going . . . they stipulate that to run 10.14 a "metal-friendly" card is required, then they don't allow drivers for the nvidia drivers that they listed as "supported" . . . but then it turns out that it's no problem to install on a VM and run it that way??? Card doesn't have to be "metal-friendly" to run in VM???

And same deal on iCloud, if you use an Apple machine you can't access iCloud except with the latest or second latest OSX version, however, in a linux machine you can log in using any old OS . . . . :bonk: :classic-eek: :emphatic-eek:

BDAqua wrote:
Quote:
you should upgrade that 16.04 distro asap . . . .

Monthly limited Data & Bandwidth is the problem here, will likely have to get 10.14 & 10.15 from some helper here.


Ah, OK, got it, only a year or so back I had a 1.2MB DSL connection, and that more or less translated to "1 GB per hr download" . . . and previous to that a few years back I was still using dial-up . . . that was when linux iso files were CD sized, that was something like 4-5 hours per GB . . . so things "took a while" . . . . As others have mentioned, no real "need" to get to 10.14 over 13, perhaps if there is some window of closure on the APFS formatting as kjk555 mentioned, then maybe . . . a buddy of mine seems "happy" with 10.15 . . . ????? Since I wasn't thinking that my machine could ever run 10.15 I haven't tried for the download on it? perhaps I did and it "didn't pass inspection"????? :confused: :o :coffee:


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:34 am 
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este.el.paz wrote:
@kjk555:

Thanks for the review on the VM, haven't really messed with that too much, I mostly have bare metal installs going, just didn't like the "window in a window" aspect of the VM, but I do see the advantages of not having to re-boot . . . .

I still think Apple is one of the weirder companies going . . . they stipulate that to run 10.14 a "metal-friendly" card is required, then they don't allow drivers for the nvidia drivers that they listed as "supported" . . . but then it turns out that it's no problem to install on a VM and run it that way??? Card doesn't have to be "metal-friendly" to run in VM???



You can run the VM fullscreen on another desktop.
I don't know for sure if a non-metal card will run run well on
a Mojave VM, but I think parallels can emulate metal capability.
A good question to look up in the parallels forum.

I have a metal capable card, even though Mojave didn't think so
when I did a standard HD install. I think the mojave internet helper app
thought my card wasn't metal capable. Mojave installed when I cut
off internet access before installing. I had no problem installing
Mohave on a Parallels vm, so I guess Parallels must have emulated
metal support during VM install. If that was the case, then a metal
card may not be required to run Mojave on VM. :)

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:57 am 
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@kjk555:

Thanks for the follow-up and the details . . . again very interesting if Parallels could "mimic" "metal-friendliness" . . . so far in the last ten years or so I've tried to follow the "open source" mantra . . . whereas when I first got into Apple now some 20 years back I was buying apps to "make it more better" . . . .

Obviously Parallels would be "cheaper" than another video card, given that that would make a diff, or cheaper than your 64 GB of RAM!!!!! For the most part to just get around on social media and internet your bargain basement linux OS is "sufficient" . . . .

Idle, off topic question . . . paging through old web tabs I see that OWC is offering 3G 1TB SSD for $108++ . . . I got their 250GB last year when I thought you couldn't or shouldn't partition an SSD and given that the cMP mobo is a 3Ger it is "fine" other than I don't use 10.14 due to the lack of sleep function. I put a 500 GB EVO 860 in my '09 MBPro and from seat o the pants it seems "quicker" zipping around the GUI than my cMP running any of the SSD/HDD options that I have . . . now Amazon wants $129++ for a 1TB version of that drive . . . not being able to compare them in an apples to apples comparo . . . any thoughts on whether the difference would be negligible and go for the cheaper OWC option, or overall the samsung is a better product and worth the extra dough?

I don't know if I truly "need" the full 1TB, just giving me more room to cut and dice it up into tiny partitions . . . or whether 500 GB would suffice to give me a fresh start on 10.13 base install and one or two linux systems . . . ??? I'll have to check back into mojave sometime in the next few days to see if I can DL 10.15 . . . don't think my '12 machine will get me into it . . . sort of a non-starter these days after this Nvidia non-support in 10.14 thingie becomes more blatantly obvious to me . . . . . :fishsmack:


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