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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:45 pm 
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Find 1: Time Machine Editor - https://tclementdev.com/timemachineeditor/
Lets you configure Time Machine's backup times. I decided I needed my computer's resources more than I needed it backing up every hour so I changed it to backup every 2 hours, plus not to back up at all when I'm asleep.

I also run CarbonCopyCloner but the two don't do exactly the same thing so I have both doing backups to a partitioned drive.

Find 2: Run iTunes on Catalina https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/it ... t-27470345
Not that I'm anywhere close to running Catalina but I like to know what's coming down the road. I'm seeing several posts complaining how Apple stripped usability in the Music application on Catalina enough to make you want iTunes again. It seems you can install old versions (and in Mojave). The link above leads to an Applescript but I strongly recommend you make sure you're using the most recent script and also that you are using the correct script for the iTunes version and macOS versions. In other words, read around the discussion a bit.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:08 pm 
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On a related note, I discovered tonight that Apple had some certificates expire on 10/24/2019.

Looks like the 10.13.6 combo updater uses this certificate, as did a full 10.13... 2? 4? installer, which is also true for the Mojave 10.14... 2? 4? as well. Bootable media created off the expired cert installers claim the install media is damaged as well unless you set the clock back. Then of course it all works fine, though you have to use Terminal from the install environment to change the date using the "date" command (with its weird ordering of month, day, hour, minute, century, & year).

I just tried to bluff my way past the 10.13.6 combo update and it complained that the update may damage my system or wasn't meant for my system, so off I go to set the clock back.

I will never entirely understand why Apple uses certificates that expire so quickly. Just set them to 99 year certs and be done with it. Apple is a root CA, they don't pay anyone more or less for how long a cert lasts. Bah. Or at least set them to expire in 5 or 6 years. Something longer than the 2 freakin' years they always seem to choose.

I downloaded a fresh installer for Mojave and High Sierra (got the full app this time from the app store for both without any fight, yay) and at least media built off that Mojave installer didn't complain... Haven't built new HS media yet.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:51 pm 
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Oooh, this is fun! High Sierra Security Update 2019-005, released in September, was signed with the same certificate.

What. The. Fuck. Apple.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:58 am 
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Limnos, very interesting how they're "protecting" us, thanks.

MB, nice find... well bad find, but good report... s'pose it's the push to new HW/SW?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:28 am 
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Yeah, I read about that nonsense, so the installers I have saved/archived are no good... not sure if it's true but it is believable, but I read every OS installer you get "expires" in 14 to 30 days. One gotcha I noticed, it doesn't matter where, but IF you have a particular OS's Installer on hand, you can not re-download it, the page will only OPEN what you already have (which will fail due to expiring certs).

"Douchebag moves r us."


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:18 am 
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YIKES! The late bird gets no worm :? :cry:

paulc wrote:
Yeah, I read about that nonsense, so the installers I have saved/archived are no good....

"Douchebag moves r us."


Me too!
Downloaded HS last year, but still on El Cap... waiting for just the right moment to update.

So - is HS old installer not usable?

Is this still OK? Probably not - but should/could I download it anyway - and is it the last update?
https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1965?locale=en_US

AND - can I download it without it self-installing?
Certainly don't want that to happen to my El Cap iMac.

sigh...

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:19 am 
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I'd give it a try.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:45 am 
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It seems like Apple generates a key every couple years and signs everything with that key. So that's why a download from last month expired on the 24th.

Now they've basically created a whole new install package for 10.13 and 10.14 and everything else under the sun (or, hopefully, will soon) so those will work so long as you download them fresh now. But in a couple years they'll also expire because Apple's keys are set to expire in the near rather than the far future. Signing them to expire soon means they have to do more work. But I suppose this means the average customer will go into an Apple Store more often and they'll get suckered into buying a new system more often. Dude at work had his power supply die in his 27" 2015 iMac and the Genius told him it wasn't worth fixing, he should just buy a new one. :nothappy:

Short term fix is just to set the clock back when you encounter this issue. The system doesn't care, after you get the OS (or update) installed you can sync to internet time and all will be forgiven.

Funny thing is I initially encountered this because I had cobbled together a MacBook Pro from parts I had lying around my office and the clock was set to 12/31/1969. But after I set the clock back a year the 10.13 installer still failed. So I set the clock back a year and it installed. :|

Mrs. H that's not the High Sierra installer, that's the Combo Update. So if you had High Sierra installed you could get up to 10.13.5 with that. But 10.13.6 is the last combo update. What you probably want is this:
https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT208969

Scroll down to "If you still need macOS High Sierra, use this App Store link" and click the link. It'll open up the App Store and you can download the install high sierra application there. It will open the installer after downloading (thanks, Apple) but you can just quit it and it'll just sit in /Applications waiting for you to use it.

If you want the last combo update for High Sierra, this is the link to use:
https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1970?locale=en_US

Incidentally, if anyone else is looking for it, this is the page for forcing the App Store to show you the Mojave installer:
https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT210190

Now that Catalina is out they're up to their old tricks of hiding everything but Catalina. :roll:


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:24 am 
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Thank you MB for explaining further.
"...the clock was set to 12/31/1969. But after I set the clock back a year the 10.13 installer still failed. So I set the clock back a year and it installed."
You had to go back to before 1969?? Does one go back year by year from 2019, or just go way back to 1968 to get it to work? Or am I not understanding this?

MonkeyBoy wrote:
...
Short term fix is just to set the clock back when you encounter this issue....

Mrs. H that's not the High Sierra installer, that's the Combo Update. So if you had High Sierra installed you could get up to 10.13.5 with that. But 10.13.6 is the last combo update. What you probably want is this:
https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT208969
...

If you want the last combo update for High Sierra, this is the link to use:
https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1970?locale=en_US

Incidentally, if anyone else is looking for it, this is the page for forcing the App Store to show you the Mojave installer:
https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT210190


I already have the HS installer - got it a long while ago and it's sitting in my download folder.
What I want is the last combo update to which you've given me the link - thank you!

I don't want to do any of these installs until we come back from Japan (yet again ;) ) - but I do want to have the combo update on my computer.

You say that won't install on its own?? I would just like to download it and wait till we return.
"It'll open up the App Store and you can download the install high sierra application there. It will open the installer after downloading (thanks, Apple) but you can just quit it and it'll just sit in /Applications waiting for you to use it."
Do I have to keep an eagle eye on it as the download finishes - or will it patiently wait for me to quit before it begins an install - which it probably can't do since I do not have HS installed just the download sitting in the download folder.

My iMac won't run Mojave (and Mr H's MBP can't go beyond El Cap) so can you think of any reason to download the Mojave installer?

Eventually we will have to buy new macs, but I'm in no hurry just now.

Thanks again,

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 7:04 pm 
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This is more common on laptops than desktops, because people frequently let laptops sit in sleep mode until they completely drain their battery down to nothing, but it can happen with desktops too if you disconnect the system from power and the motherboard battery is dead... anyway, if your system isn't connected to any power source the system will, typically, start at second 0 the next time its connected to power. This is 1/1/1970 12:00AM UTC (London time zone). Since I'm in the eastern time zone this means the clock gets displayed as 12/31/1969... 7PM? 6PM?

You can't set your clock that far back and have an installer work. In fact, having installers not work is a good clue to check your date. When I set it forward to the current time (or relatively close to it) the installer was still broken. So of course I went and created new media, because hey, maybe it is broken. Nope. But when I set the clock back a year it worked. After I got my image onto the system and ran the combo update and security update on the system, now set the correct time (yet still failing because the installer certificates had expired), I just set the date back a few days and got them on.

Certificates are only valid from a particular date to another date. With Apple this is typically a 2 year window. So if you set your date back to any point within that 2 year window the installer will work. The problem with setting the date when you're booted off installation media is that the only way to change the date is via Terminal. Which is more annoying than it sounds because the date command uses a weird month/day/hour/minute/century/year order. date 102722145019 for the current date & time for me (21:45 -> 09:45pm)

The combo update won't open automatically, only the full installer will open after downloading. I suppose if you downloaded it with Safari it might open the DMG automatically but bah, that's why I don't use Safari.

Note that the High Sierra installer you previously downloaded is undoubtedly affected by this certificate issue. You may need to download a fresh installer application for it to work, at least without futzing with the date before interacting with it.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 7:17 pm 
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BTW, after you install the 10.13.6 combo update you also need to install the latest security update. These are combo updates by any other name, but they can only be installed on a system after you've installed the combo update. And will stop you from reinstalling the combo update or an earlier security update. The latest High Sierra security update is 2019-005, but I think we'll get a 2019-006 in November.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 5:56 am 
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Argh, 3 weeks ago I went around to a series of borrowed Macs and downloaded El Capitan, Mojave and High Sierra full installer apps for the day when I need to have them on a future machine I own. Does that mean I need to do it all again?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:27 am 
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If I understood all this correctly, I think it just means you'll have to set clock to an acceptable older Date & Time.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:01 am 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
...
You can't set your clock that far back and have an installer work....
Certificates are only valid from a particular date to another date. With Apple this is typically a 2 year window. So if you set your date back to any point within that 2 year window the installer will work. The problem with setting the date when you're booted off installation media is that the only way to change the date is via Terminal. Which is more annoying than it sounds because the date command uses a weird month/day/hour/minute/century/year order. date 102722145019 for the current date & time for me (21:45 -> 09:45pm)...

Note that the High Sierra installer you previously downloaded is undoubtedly affected by this certificate issue. You may need to download a fresh installer application for it to work, at least without futzing with the date before interacting with it.


Thanks for the clear explanation.
Just a question or two - should I download the new HS installer now - given that I downloaded the one I have in June of 2018 - OR should I wait until I am ready to use it (OR is it likely to just disappear fro being available at all??)

I asked about the date to '69 because I couldn't understand your date example.
FWIW - I'm pretty sure this is how it happens: we unplug all computers for the 6 weeks when we are away, but they come back and reset the clock to the right day once plugged in again.

So, for right now - is this the plan?
Download the combo update and let it sit in the download application folder?
Don't download a new installer for HS until we return?

Thanks

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:26 am 
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My guess is that all but the latest OS will disappear & a new download may just require Date setting sooner or later anyway.

On your Date Setting after 6 weeks... In Sys Prefs>Date & Time, there is a setting to automatically set Date & Time from the Internet... if that is checked & you have internet, then theDate & Time will be corrected before you could even check it, & BTW, you need to uncheck that to Manually set the Date & Time manually.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:35 pm 
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According to this, the fruit re-posted many installers with a cert expire for 2029...

https://tidbits.com/2019/10/28/redownlo ... tificates/


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:50 pm 
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Thanks Paul! :)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:06 pm 
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That's certainly longer than the 3 years they set last time.

Mrs. H - at this point both the combo update and the new OS installer have been updated with the new 2029 certificate, so you can download them again now or wait until later, doesn't matter. If you use your old High Sierra installer you'll need to set the date back a year before launching it (or starting off installation media, if you went that route), because it's only valid between some point in 2016 and 10/24/2019.

1/1/1970 00:00 UTC is second 0 in the unix time epoch, which is why *nix systems revert back to that when batteries die. Some newer PCs revert back to a date in the near past, like the 90s or 2000s, but they still set their date back a long way. I discovered my PCs battery finally died last week, but its BIOS is clever enough to use network time to set its clock, so at least I didn't have to fight that battle. Still lost its mind and tried to boot off a non-bootable disk by default, ugh.


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