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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:57 am 
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MB: have been looking high and low for the thread or post where you suggested running 10.10 DU on a flash drive, to do an end run around the atrocity of DU in current OSs. Do you remember the directions for that, or can you point me to that post? I have the 10.10 bootable installer on a flash drive.

Unable to open the installer on 10.12 to look inside, even with date set back, but can try opening it on a 10.11.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:36 pm 
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If you have a bootable 10.10 USB installer then you have a working 10.10 disk utility.

Disk utility in 10.11+ lacks some features in a bootable USB installer or the recovery partition environment (which is the same thing sans installation files). 10.10 and below DU is completely functional in all environments.

10.11+ DU is functional in a fully installed OS, which is how I've worked around this limitation for newer systems that can't boot 10.10 (so instead of creating a 650MB recovery partition on an external disk I have to create a ~40GB partition and install an OS into it).


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:04 pm 
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Quote:
10.11+ DU is functional in a fully installed OS, which is how I've worked around this limitation for newer systems that can't boot 10.10 (so instead of creating a 650MB recovery partition on an external disk I have to create a ~40GB partition and install an OS into it).


When I try to open the 10.10 installer, even in 10.11 with date set back to '15, keep getting

Attachment:
10.10 too old to open.png
10.10 too old to open.png [ 24.53 KiB | Viewed 209 times ]



Let me go over this to be sure I have it right:

-create a ~40GB partition on the 10.11
-next, install the 10.10 to that partition
-run DU from the 10.10 on that partition
(and the 10.10 DU will see the 10.12 -- and even the munged ML?)


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:22 pm 
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Oh. So you HAVE a 10.10 installer on a flash drive, not a bootable 10.10 installation flash drive. You just copied the .app itself over to a flash drive, you didn't use createinstallmedia to create a flash drive?

I would start by copying that app into /Applications. You will also need an 8GB or larger USB drive that can be completely wiped.

Log in as an admin user. Open Terminal.

cd /Applications/Install\ OS\ X\ Yosemite.app/Contents/Resources
sudo ./createinstallmedia --volume /Volume/YourFlashDriveHere --applicationpath /Applications/Install\ OS\ X\ Yosemite.app

After confirming that you really do want to completely wipe out that flash drive and install OS X on it, you'll end up with a bootable USB installation drive for 10.10.

I just did it yesterday or the day before in 10.13 and I've done it before in 10.12. You can't run the app because it won't let you downgrade the installed copy of the OS to an older version.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:12 pm 
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No, it's a bootable installer from createinstallmedia. Not sure what I said to make you think I just copied the app. Didn't want to run the app, only wanted to open it -- with hidden toggled on, thought I could look inside the app to just open DU from there. Of course, this doesn't make any sense. Can't just open the app to look inside.

Don't remember everything from then, just that when the idea of running DU from 10.10 first came up, you suggested something other than creating the full bootable installer, but since I had an unused 8GB USB drive hanging around doing nothing, decided to make a full bootable installer.

Wish I could find that post, think it was from last year some time. Came up in a discussion about the inadequacies of the current versions of DU.

EDIT: found that thread: https://x704.net/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=12 ... ty#p108505

Before trying to create a small 40GB partition to run 10.10 DU from, will take my chances booted to the 10.10 installer on the flash drive to upgrade one of the screwed up MLs to 10.10. Should carry over anything I care about in my user there, while allowing me to run DU from there.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:18 pm 
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UPDATE: that didn't go exactly as planned, but worked out very well in the end. Booted to 10.6 (to deal with the "too old" issue) and ran the bootable 10.10 installer on flash drive from there. Got most of the way, but was then informed that the installer was "damaged" (not sure how that happened, since I ran it from the boot manager a few days ago and it offered to install to the ML--wasn't ready just then and quit it), and had to start all over. Remembered I had a copy on one of the 10.11 backups, so moved that over to the 10.6, and started again. This time finished successfully. Now have all my user data from the munged ML, plus a nice working, complete DU with the debug menu.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:49 pm 
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:D


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:55 pm 
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Uh. Oh. Sorry. I was in the middle of converting another classroom to 10.13.

But to install from bootable media you... boot from it. Then it looks like the recovery partition where you can also install the OS but the media is all on the USB, no downloading from Apple's overloaded servers required.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:50 pm 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
Uh. Oh. Sorry. I was in the middle of converting another classroom to 10.13.

But to install from bootable media you... boot from it. Then it looks like the recovery partition where you can also install the OS but the media is all on the USB, no downloading from Apple's overloaded servers required.

Actually, was first thing I tried. Brought me to some recovery partition, which must have been after it became "damaged," if that's what really occurred, as it didn't show any install option, just the usual items, utilities, etc. First time I booted to it a few days ago, it brought up the installer and offered to install to the ML partition.

Anyway, worked quite well from the 10.6, into which I had brought over the 10.10 installer saved in one of my 10.11 backups. Quite nice to have a real Disk Utility + all my data from the screwed up ML. Solved 2 problems: saved all the ML user data in original booted format + provided a good DU for occasions when needed.

Thanks for that tip about using 10.10 DU. (Damn, they've got you working on weekends :cry: )


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:35 am 
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I got the weekend off which is my usual but when I wrote the note before last I was still working, hence the distracted confused tone. Then again I didn't leave work until 1am on Saturday morning so technically I did work on the weekend. Last week it was 11am Saturday so I'm considering myself lucky.

They change what the installation option is called in the recovery partition vs. installation media, but it's the second item down. First is recover from time machine, second is install OS. Terminal is in the menu, as is firmware password. Disk Utility is either the third or the fourth. And I forget what the last option is because I never use it. Weird wild wacky stuff.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:33 pm 
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Oh. Did you install off the 10.10 installation media previously? Sometimes when you install from media it misfires the stupid "delete application" thing that it tries to do when you try to upgrade your running OS using the Install OS X Yosemite application, which causes you to be brought to a weird ginormous dialog that wants to immediately walk you through installing OS X, with no option to use Time Machine & the rest ala a recovery partition. However up in the Utilities menu you'll find Disk Utility, Terminal, and most of our breakfast pals.

Just encountered this a second ago after installing Yosemite onto an older Mac.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:19 pm 
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I don't know if this is related or not (I have a huge head cold and can barely think straight), but when I tried to boot to the SL partition on the internal earlier today (from where I had successfully installed 10.10 to the external ML partition the other day) it was no longer showing at the boot manager as "... SL," but instead as "OS X Installer," even though startup disk showed its normal name.

Didn't try opening that, and instead cloned back a Snow backup from an external. Now all is good.

Have since wiped that flash drive where I had the bootable installer, so can't have another look, but it definitely didn't look like the installer any longer--appeared as an ordinary recovery partition. Perhaps for some strange reason it opened the "real" recovery partition there (for Sierra, or maybe a leftover from 10.9) instead. So didn't go much further with it.

To answer your question more directly, never ran the 10.10 installer before, and was never brought to any dialog.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:28 am 
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Ah. It sounds like you were in a bootable installation media then, which looks identical to a recovery partition except for slightly different wording on the install OS X / macOS option.

After you install off the media sometimes it will change the media so it doesn't bring you to that same recovery partition-style screen at startup and instead brings up this huge ginormous window which, at first glance, only allows you to install OS X and nothing else. It looks very similar to the OS X installation window from Tiger and Leopard. In that screen Disk Utility is only shown under Utilities which is why I thought you might have been brought there.


Assuming you started to install Yosemite after booting off your 10.6 partition (which I think is what you said you did), then yes, it will convert the running environment (your 10.6 partition) to an installation environment. The only way to get around this is to actually use bootable media so it doesn't need to convert the currently running OS to an installation OS. Basically when you start an installer from within OS X proper Apple assumes you will be upgrading the currently running OS to the installer's OS.

In ye olden days of Leopard and Tiger running the installer from within OS X would basically just set the startup disk to the installation DVD with some extra flags so it would kick off the installer immediately, then reboot. Apple doesn't do that anymore.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:09 am 
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Quote:
Ah. It sounds like you were in a bootable installation media then, which looks identical to a recovery partition except for slightly different wording on the install OS X / macOS option.

Yep, that's what threw me. To test, just happened to option boot to the ML installer a little while ago, which just showed "Mac OS X", and brought me to what looked like a recovery partition. But, as you said, second one down is actually the ML installer. They have definitely changed things: booted to the Sierra and HSierra installers which instead directly showed "Install MacOS Sierra"/ "Install MacOS High Sierra." A bit less confusing.

Quote:
Assuming you started to install Yosemite after booting off your 10.6 partition (which I think is what you said you did), then yes, it will convert the running environment (your 10.6 partition) to an installation environment. The only way to get around this is to actually use bootable media so it doesn't need to convert the currently running OS to an installation OS. Basically when you start an installer from within OS X proper Apple assumes you will be upgrading the currently running OS to the installer's OS.

That explains it. But first did try using the bootable Yosemite installer there, which, as I said earlier, proceeded for a while until I got a message saying that it was damaged. That was when I decided to bring over the 10.10 installer.app from another backup.

Glad I had a backup to restore the 10.6. Wonder what I could have done without that? Just completely screwed? Would have had to say bye bye to the Snow volume, or avoid that fate by using some kind of self-torture like MA or a Snow reinstall (still have the original Snow install disc)?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:28 am 
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If you tried to boot from it then you'd have been brought to the 10.10 installer which would allow you to upgrade your underlying 10.6 installation to 10.10. I don't recall an easy way to come back from that to the previous OS short of a backup.

Unfortunately my 10.10 USB installer is forever getting mangled but thank goodness I can keep creating them from within Sierra & High Sierra. That will likely change with Mojave's successor unless Apple decides to listen to their customers and not go 64-bit only with it.


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