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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:17 pm 
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Will go into the weeds with this one later to explain more (a lot of weeds), but I have a bootable USB installer of ML version1.3.24 date 04/13 (10.8.3 or 4, not sure which) which I can't get to install over the later installed 10.8.5. I know that later hardware won't allow a version earlier than its build date, but, bottom line, is it impossible to apply an older OS version over a newer--same hardware?

Not trying to completely downgrade the ML, just want to apply the older one to fill in some missing components.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:32 pm 
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Yes, it won't allow it without erasing, but it does some check of the installation so I think you could remove some file to fool it, more recent versions seem to even forbid reinstalling a Combo Update of the same version!

Likely... Oh wait, that's Server, but not really, just an attempt to get client to install as a VM, maybe?

/Volumes/10.8/Applications/Server.app/Contents/ServerRoot/System/Library/CoreServices/ServerVersion.plist

10.8.5 reports this...

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE plist PUBLIC "-//Apple//DTD PLIST 1.0//EN" "http://www.apple.com/DTDs/PropertyList-1.0.dtd">
<plist version="1.0">
<dict>
<key>ProductBuildVersion</key>
<string>12S254j</string>
<key>ProductCopyright</key>
<string>1983-2012 Apple Inc.</string>
<key>ProductName</key>
<string>Mac OS X</string>
<key>ProductUserVisibleVersion</key>
<string>10.8</string>
<key>ProductVersion</key>
<string>10.8</string>
</dict>
</plist>


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:42 pm 
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Must be some other file in System or Library, maybe you could just move or rename one of those folders?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:30 pm 
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Thanks, might be able to find the appropriate version.plist from the earlier installer and replace some of it in the newer.

Tricky thing is I'm unable to boot to the newer one to see what's what there -- long story short, get the infamous login loop, the possible solution (irrelevant to you) to which, highly ironically, I happened to give a few days ago -- Trashed everything in private/var/audit, including current, whenever it made an appearance, but makes no difference.

Have to look inside the root folder of the volume with hidden toggled visible for that .plist, if I can find it there.

All of this started when I absent mindedly backed up/cloned my 10.12 to the 10.8 (only copy) and realized only after about 15 min, as it was proceeding merrily to copy over many of the 10.12 applications. (Then other things happened....including using Pacifist to replace the now missing mach_kernel to even begin to try to get it to boot :badteeth: )


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:43 pm 
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Won't Find Any File work with Find all?

Have you tried deleting that .applesetupdone file?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:47 pm 
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BDAqua wrote:
Won't Find Any File work with Find all?

Have you tried deleting that .applesetupdone file?

Hadn't thought of looking with FAF. Might turn those up, thanks.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:26 pm 
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Trouble is everything has a version.plist in it.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:10 pm 
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BDAqua wrote:
Trouble is everything has a version.plist in it.

:fishsmack:


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:45 pm 
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They used to allow you to do an archive & install which would stick the existing installation into a subfolder and then install a fresh OS. This was the only way (short of hackery) to install an older OS on top of a newer one. Unfortunately that went away I think around the time of Lion. These days you can't even reinstall a combo update if a later security update has been installed, and I believe the same holds true for an OS installation. Grumble.

I suspect a plist (or two or three or five hundred) would let you install on top although a fresh installation, update, followed by careful selections in migration assistant (from the existing wonkified setup) would probably be less problematic. Though it'd probably take more time, it should be more straightforward (and of course if the resulting OS goes kabloom then you start over and try selecting less stuff to migrate - or make a disk image prior to MA and restore the image).


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:16 pm 
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Found the proper systemversion.plist almost immediately (in system/Library/Core Services) which I edited for 10.8.3, but 10.8.4 installer still no go. (Sys Prefs Startup Disk correctly shows 10.8.3.) But every time I try the 10.8.4 installer, it always says "installing" for about a half minute, then always goes to exactly 34 minutes left, and restarts to the recovery partition, which then goes nowhere. The volume at the boot picker (option-boot) then becomes labeled "OS X Installer". Before I ran the damn installer, after the first clone from 10.12, it was showing a number of incompatible applications -- the ones from the Sierra -- but I could at least get it to boot. Running the installer appears to have caused the booting problem, as well as the missing mach_kernel (since replaced with the one from the 10.8.5 combo) which CCC noticed.

When I clone one to the other, "ML" to "ML2" or vice versa, CCC also shows an alert saying "can't set startup caches correctly, may kernel panic on first boot do safe boot to fix," which, obviously, is out of the question, since I can't get it booted no matter what I try now. Get the login screen, enter password and then it goes briefly to a white screen before returning to the login screen right away.

If the problem is startup caches, is there any other fix for this besides a safe boot? Is there some way I can replace the startup caches at the root folder without booting? Or something to remove or replace at the root folder to allow it to boot and then rebuild the boot caches?

Note, I'm beginning to think I will have to live without a bootable ML. Can get to amost anything of any
value from the root folder, so not the end of the world. It's mostly been trying to see if it can be fixed, me vs. Apple, and I think Apple is coming out way ahead on this one.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:49 pm 
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If the problem is startup caches, is there any other fix for this besides a safe boot?

DU, at least in some versions does it I think...

Repairing file system.
Checking Journaled HFS Plus volume.
Checking extents overflow file.
Checking catalog file.
Checking multi-linked files.
Checking catalog hierarchy.
Checking extended attributes file.
Checking volume bitmap.
Checking volume information.
The volume 1012 appears to be OK.
File system check exit code is 0.
Updating boot support partitions for the volume as required.
Operation successful.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:07 pm 
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Yep, been there done that, doesn't help. Maybe it's not boot caches. That was just a shot in the dark.

Edit: except the alert from CCC mentions not being able to correctly set the startup caches. Plus when it finishes running it says "updating startup caches." So the caches are set/updated but not properly.

Not much I can do about any of this if I can't get it booted.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:38 pm 
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I wonder what this is?

SystemEntropyCache

Look in private/var/db, that is where this, Boot Caches, & others are.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:05 pm 
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BDAqua wrote:
I wonder what this is?

SystemEntropyCache

Look in private/var/db, that is where this, Boot Caches, & others are.

Whatever it's supposed to mean, a whole lot of system entropy going on.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:25 pm 
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Do you have any of the 10.8.x combo updates? Especially the 10.8.5 Combo... you can use Pacifist to apply it to another drive.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:23 pm 
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Do have the 10.8.5 combo. Not quite sure how to use Pacifist to do that. Already looked into doing that. What exactly to "extract" and to where exactly at the already 10.8.5 root folder?

As I said earlier, CCC alerted me to the missing mach_kernel, which I successfully used Pacifist to extract from the 10.8.5 Combo to where it belongs in the ML. But no idea how to use it to move the entire 10.8.5 Combo over, if that's required, or just what part of the Combo update. Trying to run that 10.8.4 installer did a real number on the ML. So not sure what else is missing or damaged.


Last edited by WZZZ on Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:44 pm 
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Yes, choose Install to Other Disk once you highlight the top line...


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:48 pm 
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Thanks, will have to have another look at that tomorrow.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:52 pm 
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.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:59 pm 
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Using Pacifist, installed the entire 10.8.5 Combo.

First off, reason I never saw Install to Disk in Pacifist is that, for some reason, it's missing on my version (latest, in fact.) But did find option to install to other disk in the file menu:
Attachment:
Pacifist file install to disk .png
Pacifist file install to disk .png [ 45.03 KiB | Viewed 302 times ]


Took hours, as it went through everything in Resources -- could have but didn't want to stop it there, as I had no idea what had gone missing or been damaged by running the 10.8.4 installer.

Finally finished, but unfortunately doesn't even get to the login window now. Just spinning gear forever. Tried a few times holding down Shift while selecting the drive. Gave me some hope as I even got a progress bar, but that quit after a minute and left the gear spinning for eternity. No idea how to fix. But maybe a clue from private/var/audit? (Could reapply the latest security update 2015-006 from Pacifist I suppose, but beginning to think nothing I do will work.) Could use Onyx for 10.8 to try a few things, but don't think it's possible to run it from the 10.12 to address the external volume.

Attachment:
audit crash recovery.png [84.14 KiB]
Not downloaded yet


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:09 pm 
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Quote:
But did find option to install to other disk in the file menu

Oops, did I forget to mention where that is? Sorry.

I imagine you ran DU on it since?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:16 pm 
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Not your fault, just doesn't show that option in the menubar from your screenshot in my version. But it's there in the file dropdown.

Yeah, DU directory check shows everything OK, and DU info for volume shows bootable and everything else good.

Attachment:
Screen Shot 2019-01-06 at 5.14.24 PM.png [125.03 KiB]
Not downloaded yet


Plus ran

sudo bless --info /Volumes/\(SAMSUNG\ 1TB\)\ ML2
finderinfo[0]: 612282 => Blessed System Folder is /Volumes/(SAMSUNG 1TB) ML2/System/Library/CoreServices
finderinfo[1]: 648477 => Blessed System File is /Volumes/(SAMSUNG 1TB) ML2/System/Library/CoreServices/boot.efi
finderinfo[2]: 0 => Open-folder linked list empty
finderinfo[3]: 0 => No alternate OS blessed file/folder
finderinfo[4]: 0 => Unused field unset
finderinfo[5]: 612282 => OS X blessed folder is /Volumes/(SAMSUNG 1TB) ML2/System/Library/CoreServices


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:24 pm 
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I wonder if it needs a PRAM Reset or 3 ?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:43 pm 
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BDAqua wrote:
I wonder if it needs a PRAM Reset or 3 ?

Didn't think it would help, but worth a try. No dice.

Think that's the end of the line.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:28 pm 
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Do you need an ML installer?


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