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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:13 am 
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Mr H's MBP has a password issue - and I don't know when/how it happened or how to solve it.
PW doesn't work for admin account.

We Reset the SMC the other day.
I don't know if this problem was there before we did this and I can't believe this caused the PW to change.

I tried to share a document with him.
He couldn't connect to the iMac in Sharing as we usually do.
It said Not connected and offered "Connecting as" - then asked for the PW.
Account name was already there.
I put in PW and the thing jiggled. I didn't want to try again - I knew I had the right PW.

So I went to syst prefs and tried parental control - the thing I'm always willing to fool with, since I don't care about it and I can test lock and unlock parental control any old time with the PW and not cause an issue. Good place for me to test on MBP.
Parental control was locked on the MBP so I put in the PW and it jiggled.

What do I do now??

I see you can "change PW" in system prefs in accounts, but I bet you need to begin with the PW that it knows - which it seems to have forgotten. Good thing the computer is not set to ask for a login when he turns it on.

Help please - I won't be back for an hour or so, so no rush, but I'm a bit nervous here.

Can I reset a PW?
Can a PW change on its own?

help!

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:25 pm 
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Check if Caps Lock is on, you may be typing in all uppercase.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:39 pm 
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roam wrote:
Check if Caps Lock is on, you may be typing in all uppercase.

roam gave a great suggestion. I'll add another less likely possibility...maybe num lock is on if you use the keypad. It can be turned off by using the clear button. Explained here


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:50 pm 
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Thanks both.
I thought of the caps lock thing- but it's not on.
No numbers keypad on the MBP.

I did further searching and found several forums on apple site with folks saying after el cap they had this very problem.
Here for example - with instructions on how to fix - helped along by the link below with pix:
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7321308

We updated to el cap in August and I'm sure I've used the PW since then.

I did find ways to reset the PW - but don' know what I'll run into by jumping in and doing that so I'm asking you all before proceeding.

This looks easy - too easy as Mr H says. Anybody could gain access to a Mac if they know about this. Mind you, we don't logout or have to use the PW to login, but we obviously need it to do things administratively (like get back to sharing which is where this all began).

This looks easy:
https://coolestguidesontheplanet.com/re ... d-mac-osx/

The PW isn't forgotten - just no longer works - but Imm guessing this would work?

If I go this reset route as described above with pix from the recovery partition, how does this effect keychain - about which I know absolutely nothing?
I would reset the PW to the one we know, but what does that do to keychain? Is it now gone? How do we start a new one???

In the link above from the screen shots -
Do you Reset Home Directory Permissions and ACLs? - shown in the example on the Reset Password screen near the end of the desciption.

Again - what about the old keychain? No info here except it tells you that you get a screen about keychain.

We're not doing anything until we have a better sense of what to do.

Thanks again

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:41 pm 
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Unless you enable encryption, resetting the initial admin account password, the first account created on the system, is that easy. It used to be easier, in that it was listed under utilities, but its existed since at least 10.4. I don't recall any way of resetting the password (non-exploit) without physical access to the machine, meaning someone has to sit in front of your system to gain access to it. Again though if this bothers you then you need to use encryption, but at that point if you don't know the password for whatever reason then you're not getting in, so remembering passwords becomes far more critical.

Physical access is generally the point at which all security is defeated, either with minor effort like this, or with greater effort (encryption). Multi-million dollar systems have the ability to be secure with physical access but at the same time as Snowden showed even multi-million dollar systems can be defeated. Being able to perform remote exploits is a far more serious threat, which is why we constantly patch systems.

No, you don't want to reset acls, that's only if the acls on the admin account were set wrong by someone who didn't know what they were doing. Basically if you reset the password and still can't get in then we can see if the ACLs are set wrong on the admin user folder (using Terminal from recovery we can check).

Did you really store anything important in the keychain of the admin user? It will prompt you for the old password after you login to unlock the keychain. This isn't your normal user account password, this is the keychain of the admin user, which unless you've been using it extensively shouldn't contain much of anything worthwhile.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:49 pm 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
Unless you enable encryption, resetting the initial admin account password, the first account created on the system, is that easy...

No, you don't want to reset acls...

Did you really store anything important in the keychain of the admin user? It will prompt you for the old password after you login to unlock the keychain. This isn't your normal user account password, this is the keychain of the admin user, which unless you've been using it extensively shouldn't contain much of anything worthwhile.


So - do it the way it's showed on the link?
Should he restart/reboot before we do this/

Thanks for the reply on ACLs - I figured it was not something to fuss with, but wanted to ask.

As far as I know, nothing significant is stored on the keychain admin user account - unless there are things like why did sharing make us put in the PW to access the other computer - which is how we figured out the problem Is that a keychain event - and that's the admin account PW that it was asking for I assume? Whenever a site asks permission to store a PW on the computer (in keychain?) we say deny.
[On the iMac I suspect keychain is used for Mail PWs with my ISP IMAP account (???), but the MBP never uses Mail and it's not even set up on his computer.]

Thanks for the help!

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:56 pm 
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Yeah there shouldn't be anything in the admin account keychain unless you were really using like a normal user account. Things like WiFi network passcodes get stored in the system keychain, only things like websites, email, etc. passwords - used by that particular user - get stored in the user keychain. You should be given the option to reset the keychain if you don't know the password.

Resetting the password is similar to whats shown. You need to choose your particular boot drive from the list at the top (where it shows Macintosh HD), your particular admin user account from the drop down list (where it shows Joe Example), and then type in your password, confirm your new password, and hit reset.

You will have to restart the system and boot off the recovery partition to do this. It isn't available from Terminal when the system is running normally. Hold Command R at startup and wait for the apple logo to pop up, then go get a cup of coffee or something because it takes forrrrevvvvvverrrrr to start. :lol: I just did it a second ago so I could put a system into target disk mode.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:04 pm 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
Yeah there shouldn't be anything in the admin account keychain unless you were really using like a normal user account. Things like WiFi network passcodes get stored in the system keychain, only things like websites, email, etc. passwords - used by that particular user - get stored in the user keychain. You should be given the option to reset the keychain if you don't know the password.....


User? - does that also mean administrator?
the admin account is the only one we use - so I guess, yes we are using it as if it were a normal user account.
wifi modem password may have to be reentered - but will we be instructed to let it put it into keychain?
no mail / no email PW used on the MPB = no worries there.

"You should be given the option to reset the keychain if you don't know the password"
We don't have a keychain PW - unless it's the same as the admin system PW.
When we are given that option - what do we do?/

Thanks again, and sorry to ask such puny specific question.
T'ai chi time now - we'll do this after dinner tonight when he shuts it down and we'll restart it.
Thanks for the heads up on the slow time it'll take.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:46 pm 
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Oh. So you have autologon turned on so you never need to enter the password when turning on the system (it automatically logs into an account and presents you with Finder) and therefore you don't know what the password is? Common problem, which is why that feature is disabled on newer OSes by default and I really don't recommend doing it.

Sounds like the password got set to something you don't know. Try enter (leave the password blank) or 1234 or password. I would bet that whoever upgraded you to 10.11 set a password on that account and forgot to tell you it. And because you have autologon turned on this is the first you're finding it. Its extremely unlikely to have changed by itself without actual input from a human being. It certainly has nothing to do with the SMC reset.

Sorry, I skimmed, and thought this was an admin account that you don't normally use. I have no less than 5 systems on my desk right now all doing different things because I was on vacation and people saved up work for me rather than telling my coworker like they're supposed to. :roll:


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:25 pm 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
Oh. So you have autologon turned on...

Sounds like the password got set to something you don't know....And because you have autologon turned on this is the first you're finding it. Its extremely unlikely to have changed by itself without actual input from a human being. ...

Sorry, I skimmed, and thought this was an admin account that you don't normally use....

Autologon - yes. It's on on all 3 of the macs.

Don't think the tech set the PW to something else since we've used the PW since the upgrade and it worked fine (I'm almost 100% certain of this) Besides, he left before the update finished and we had to use the PW to complete the installation, or something - but regardless, I know we've used it since.

I have read several questions online (I know the apple forum has idiots who ask things) from folks in el cap where they say what I'm saying - PW changed. We can't all be nuts - can we?

Now - tell me why autologon is not recommended. Is it just for security?

Thank you for your help. We are doing the PW reset tomorrow - but I first just want to see what happens when we turn the sucker on again and if it fixes itself. Can one enter the "wrong" PW too often and get locked out?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:45 pm 
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Right now autologon has the correct password in it, otherwise it wouldn't be able to log in. If you change the password on an autologon account it will break autologon. That's why I suggest that the password is likely been changed for a while, at least since autologon was setup.

If you type the password every time you start the system, you're going to know what the password is.

I would try a few simple passwords on it, just to see if it's set to something simple like blank that's easy to hit by mistake. You will lose the keychain unless you know what the old password is after a reset.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:14 am 
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Mrs H wrote:
...PW changed. We can't all be nuts - can we?

I'm not going talk politics but just to say, you use autologin and you're blaming the computer for forgetting your password. Okaaaayy... it all makes sense now. Naughty computer.
I know someone who uses autologin and when I asked them for the password to do some maintenance they said, 'what password?'.

Seriously, if an any OS, Apple or otherwise somehow forgot a set password it would be scandalous and unique. For little used passwords, writing then down is a good idea. Today many of us have lots of website usernames and passwords and I recommend this list be maintained and kept in a safe place for reference. Personally I keep this data in a passworded diskimage, though each should use a method best suited to their routine.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:25 am 
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ALL IS WELL!

We turned the MBP off last night.
We turned it on again this morning.

We tested the Parental Control lock by putting in the PW which we perfectly well know and it worked just fine.

I don't know what the problem was yesterday, but I do know what I've been saying all along is correct - we know the PW and the MBP wouldn't recognize it. Caps lock was not on and num lock was neither.

Clearly the computer had a hiccup and our memory and knowledge of our PW was spot on.

roam wrote:
... Naughty computer.
I know someone who uses autologin and when I asked them for the password to do some maintenance they said, 'what password?'.


Yup, you are absolutely right: Naughty computer! Sit! Stay!

And btw, we do know the password and would never say "what password?"

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:35 am 
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Glad to hear issue is resolved! You used my first goto technique for just about any issue I'm not familiar with. Restart. Let those 0's and 1's get all nestled back in there the correct way. ;)


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:42 am 
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db5owat wrote:
Glad to hear issue is resolved! ... ;)

We are too! Thanks!

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:50 pm 
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Whew.

Though the reset password tool is pretty simple, only thing you lose is anything else that uses that password like keychain, so its good to remember in case something goes awry in the future.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:58 pm 
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Whew, indeed!
Greatly relieved.

Still have no idea how this happened, but glad it's over.

Now - what are the disadvantages of the autologin? It's worked for us forever - well since we started with our MacPlus, I suspect. And since we do know our PWs, it's not like we need to write it in daily in order to remember it. Travel MBP is another story, but the macs that live at home...

btw - we put away (as in hide away) the MPBs whenever we leave the house (we've been robbed here in the boonies all to often) and I even have a cable lock connecting the iMac to my desk. Talk about paranoia ;)

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:28 pm 
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Its security. First, you absolutely know the password because you're entering it all the time. Second, no one else can walk up, turn it on, and get in w/o effort because they need a password to get in. Maybe not necessarily something nefarious like an intruder, but less technically inclined family members are notorious for wandering in and "accidentally" deleting things. Since your equipment is secured an intruder is less likely to walk off with the hardware, but because of autologon all your data is accessible to them now. In ye olden days this wouldn't be a big deal, but technical ability is mainstream now so poking around and copying files and profiles and anything else readable from your account is a few mouse clicks (and a $25 128GB flash drive) away.

With a password you're secure from guests and the average intruder. To be secure from the slightly less average intruder you use encryption, at which point you're entering a password every time you turn the system on to unlock the encrypted boot disk... probably don't want to do this, there's a big performance penalty for using it with anything other than an SSD on a relatively recent system.


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