XYMer's Home away from Home

When http://bbs.xlr8yourmac.com is down (i.e. always)
Privacy Policy
It is currently Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:43 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 78 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 8:13 pm
Posts: 11390
Location: Caught between the moon and NYC
Mojave is the last OS that supports 32-bit software, Catalina is a goddamn nightmare since nothing but Apple applications work properly on it, everything has issues of varying severities.

So long as you have an SSD and at least 8GB of RAM Mojave isn't too horrible, though definitely have any disk you don't want converted to APFS disconnected before and during the installation.

Even then I've seen Mojave manage to install itself onto an HFS+ volume that it refused to convert to APFS because it failed to install the firmware that enables booting from APFS. Little bit of interesting logic in their installer - if firmware doesn't install, charge ahead and keep installing Mojave, what could go wrong? :shock:

Sierra is the last OS that runs older apps like Final Cut Pro, they gutted whatever framework those applications rely on from High Sierra.

So really it comes down to how much pain and how few apps can you live with...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:33 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:38 pm
Posts: 673
My thoughts exactly MB.

That's why I stopped at Sierra. Can't give up all those expensive apps
and operational stability.

I do have Mojave and HS installed in Parallels VM's. Good place for them no doubt.
Mojave's audio output is pretty awful in the VM. I guess Apple jacked with that too.
HS and other MacOS VM's audio is good.

Looks like Sierra is the last of the Mohicans if running on older Apple hardware.

Seems like it's all about the money and proprietary hardware/software now with Apple.
They might ought to be careful though, that philosophy might just come back
to bite them in the rear.

_________________
Mac pro 1,1 - Mac pro 5,1 w/Areca Raid - Macbook pro 8,3 - Snow Leopard, Mountain lion and Sierra.
"We are the Messengers between Time and its Keeper."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2009 2:15 pm
Posts: 6878
Location: NYC
FWIW, I have zero problems running 10.13, although Console leaves much to be desired. Upgraded last year from 10.12, runs just as fast. Even 10.14 via dosdude Patcher runs about as well. Both installed to HFS+ on internal.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:42 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 5:31 am
Posts: 119
Yes, indeed the problems already started...

I was running Matlab 2009 and Matlab 2015 on the former system El Capitan without problems, and both stopped working... they seem to be offended by missing JAVA, however. I am sure I made some tweaks before, but I don't remember.

Is there anyone who could guide me?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:06 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 8:13 pm
Posts: 11390
Location: Caught between the moon and NYC
The original Apple build of JavaSE6 is still available:
https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1572?locale=en_US

However they strongly recommend installing Oracle's Java:
https://www.java.com/en/

I'm not sure if Oracle's Java for Mac still includes a malware/adware payload or not, I haven't installed it in years. Used to be you could get an uninfected installer by going to their JDK (development kit) area and downloading installers from there but Oracle put a stop to that, you can only download the JDK from the JDK section now. Guess they expect developers to belly up and take part in their adware "partner" machine on their test systems.

I would strongly recommend having a good backup or multiple good backups before touching the Oracle installers in case you need to revert the OS to get rid of their partner's traces. Some of them were &*#(&$*( horrible.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:43 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 8:07 pm
Posts: 2843
Location: Inside Flatus Maximus
MonkeyBoy wrote:
Mojave is the last OS that supports 32-bit software, Catalina is a goddamn nightmare since nothing but Apple applications work properly on it, everything has issues of varying severities.

So long as you have an SSD and at least 8GB of RAM Mojave isn't too horrible, though definitely have any disk you don't want converted to APFS disconnected before and during the installation.

Even then I've seen Mojave manage to install itself onto an HFS+ volume that it refused to convert to APFS because it failed to install the firmware that enables booting from APFS. Little bit of interesting logic in their installer - if firmware doesn't install, charge ahead and keep installing Mojave, what could go wrong? :shock:

Sierra is the last OS that runs older apps like Final Cut Pro, they gutted whatever framework those applications rely on from High Sierra.

So really it comes down to how much pain and how few apps can you live with...


Sierra is also the last OS that has the built in FTP server. Starting with 10.13 you can only get it via Brew or by paying for an Interarchy license. Brew is broken entirely in Catalina due to volume restrictions and my nVidia hardware won't work past 10.13 anyway, so stay on 10.12.6 I shall.

Catalina's graphics drivers are absolute shit too, especially the Intel ones. Blizzard managed to retrigger an age old KP bug in the Intel IGP architecture with World of Warcraft 8.3 and nothing they did, including reverting to 8.2.5's code fixed it. Turns out particles on Intel's IGPs can crash them. And we all know how fast Intel is at fixing things (see: Intel Puma 6).

_________________
Official Mac Tech Support Forum Cookie™ (Mint Chocolate Chip)
Guaranteed tasty; Potentially volatile when dipped in WWIII Forum Syrup®
Caution: This cookie bites back.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:29 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:38 pm
Posts: 673
Just my Humble opinion, but HS and Mojave are nothing but poorly
written transitory steps to the behemoth Catalina.

The least Apple could have done is make the last two 32/64 bit MacOS's
the best possible modern OS's that a user could use on the machines they opted
to leave behind.

That way the older machines could have gone out in a blaze of glory, rather than
a fart in the wind.

_________________
Mac pro 1,1 - Mac pro 5,1 w/Areca Raid - Macbook pro 8,3 - Snow Leopard, Mountain lion and Sierra.
"We are the Messengers between Time and its Keeper."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 8:13 pm
Posts: 11390
Location: Caught between the moon and NYC
Meh, given that they only released Snow Leopard for Intel systems and left PPC systems with the sluggish buggy mess that was Leopard, I think the writing has been on the wall for a long time.

Apple doesn't care about their installed base. They only care about new customers. What's new is that they expect Mac customers to buy systems as often as iPhone customers buy iPhones.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:11 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 11, 2019 6:52 pm
Posts: 544
Location: New York City
Squishy Tia wrote:
Sierra is also the last OS that has the built in FTP server. Starting with 10.13 you can only get it via Brew or by paying for an Interarchy license. Brew is broken entirely in Catalina due to volume restrictions and my nVidia hardware won't work past 10.13 anyway, so stay on 10.12.6 I shall.

Catalina's graphics drivers are absolute shit too, especially the Intel ones. Blizzard managed to retrigger an age old KP bug in the Intel IGP architecture with World of Warcraft 8.3 and nothing they did, including reverting to 8.2.5's code fixed it. Turns out particles on Intel's IGPs can crash them. And we all know how fast Intel is at fixing things (see: Intel Puma 6).


Heya Squish! I too am sticking with 10.12.6 BUT best info I have is that starting with the pre-release of WoW 9.0, Sierra is deprecated and High Sierra becomes the new min... which I assume means it simply won't run on Sierra. The interesting thing is HS supposedly has a "better" version of Metal (I use a GTX 980), BUT I actually have nothing to complain about with Metal in Sierra and WoW. Pre Metal, my cMP win10 ran the game much better, but now, performance between the 2 OSes is pretty much the same.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:12 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:38 pm
Posts: 673
Deprecated generally means it may or may not work on a particular OS and
the developer won't support problems encountered on the OS that is "deprecated'.

That doesn't mean they won't "pull the plug" on the next final version though.

_________________
Mac pro 1,1 - Mac pro 5,1 w/Areca Raid - Macbook pro 8,3 - Snow Leopard, Mountain lion and Sierra.
"We are the Messengers between Time and its Keeper."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 8:13 pm
Posts: 11390
Location: Caught between the moon and NYC
Yeah, until they actually make use of a feature that isn't present in Sierra it'll likely keep working fine, but they won't accept bug reports from people running Sierra.

If it wasn't for software requiring Leopard I'd run Tiger on my G5. Everything runs faster in Tiger.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:17 am 
Offline
Benevolent Dictator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:03 am
Posts: 17710
Tiger was the pinnacle of OSXes.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:27 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 5:31 am
Posts: 119
Dear all,

May I ask what you are planning to do? :?:

I mean Internet access is important, and will even increase in importance in the future, so running an old OSX won't be a serious solution.

Personally, I love the touch and handiness of a MacBook Pro. However I need stability on the software level with minimal change over the years.

Will it be better to run Ubuntu on those machines? Or still Catalina :fishsmack:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:54 am 
Offline
Benevolent Dictator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:03 am
Posts: 17710
Good questions & I think Linux for future Internet is a safe bet.

I'm unlikely to go past 10.13.6 ever & I really I really hate Windows® 10...


Attachments:
Parallels12bSm.gif
Parallels12bSm.gif [ 106.17 KiB | Viewed 3431 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 8:13 pm
Posts: 11390
Location: Caught between the moon and NYC
I will say this about Microsoft, they're still supporting a huge array of hardware. Not as much as Linux, but the big distros like Ubuntu are getting a little fidgety about really old hardware, they're getting a bit more like MS in terms of minimums. You can still find distros but sometimes it takes a little research.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:38 pm
Posts: 673
Ququq wrote:
Dear all,

May I ask what you are planning to do? :?:

I mean Internet access is important, and will even increase in importance in the future, so running an old OSX won't be a serious solution.

Personally, I love the touch and handiness of a MacBook Pro. However I need stability on the software level with minimal change over the years.

Will it be better to run Ubuntu on those machines? Or still Catalina :fishsmack:

---
For me, For quite some time I will probably keep ahead of the internet with parallels desktop
running Linux, Windows or even Catalina.

Worse comes to worse, I'll build a lightweight modern PC and place it on the lan.

Another option may be to build a Hackintosh. It's getting much easier to build
Hackintoshes. Maybe even a Proxmox based virtual machine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdYyfoZcgJI&feature=youtu.be

_________________
Mac pro 1,1 - Mac pro 5,1 w/Areca Raid - Macbook pro 8,3 - Snow Leopard, Mountain lion and Sierra.
"We are the Messengers between Time and its Keeper."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:27 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 8:05 pm
Posts: 783
Location: Wakefield, UK
BDAqua wrote:
Tiger was the pinnacle of OSXes.


Followed by Snow Leopard (my personal favourite), then Mavericks.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:16 am 
Offline
Benevolent Dictator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:03 am
Posts: 17710
Yeah, Snow Leopard was great because it could still run PPC Apps amongst other things, but what was great about Mavericks?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:33 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 8:05 pm
Posts: 783
Location: Wakefield, UK
They broke the networking on OSs after Mavericks, specifically wake on lan. I ran a server on Mavericks as it could wake up and sleep itself. Nothing later worked. Otherwise I just remember it being pretty solid.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:47 am 
Offline
Benevolent Dictator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:03 am
Posts: 17710
Ah, thanks, all I can remember about it is that it was the ugliest, blurriest Desktop pic Apple ever had!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 7:56 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:51 pm
Posts: 718
Location: Minnesota, USA
BDAqua wrote:
Ah, thanks, all I can remember about it is that it was the ugliest, blurriest Desktop pic Apple ever had!


Blurriest Desktop picture? That's probably a matter of your display. In any case the default picture is the least worrisome thing about any OS since I pretty much always change that a few minutes after installing an OS.

Mavericks is pretty good and relatively stable. I have had it crash a few times per month recently (vs. Tiger which crashed maybe one per year). I think that's mostly because newer software (such as up to date Waterfox versions) is placing a lot of demand on my old computer.

The main gripe I have had with Mavericks (which I still use) is Finder. Notably sometimes it does not update Finder windows in list mode when an app makes a change to the content. Sometimes opening the actual folder will show the new item there which isn't displaying in a view of that folder in a higher level folder isn't showing it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:42 am 
Offline
Benevolent Dictator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:03 am
Posts: 17710
Hmmm, is this the surf pic? Was blurry on 3 different iMacs, 24", 21.5", & 27", of course it's easy to change, I just thought it was Apple rubbing our nose in what they want.

I used "Refresh Finder" to solve the update problem, which still exists to an extent...

https://www.macworld.com/article/105750 ... inder.html

tell application “Finder"
tell front window
update every item with necessity
end tell
end tell

http://macappstore.org/refresh-finder/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:30 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 8:05 pm
Posts: 783
Location: Wakefield, UK
I thought Mavericks was getting unstable but it turned out to be a failing HDD... Anyhow that server has now been replaced by a raspberry pi which is pretty much zero maintenance.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:05 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:51 pm
Posts: 718
Location: Minnesota, USA
From the MacWorld article: "One limitation of Refresh Window—and all similar utilities, for that matter—is that if you’re viewing a Finder window in List view and have sub-folders expanded. Refresh Finder won’t update the contents of the sub-folders. This is a limitation of the Finder; you’ll need to open the sub-folder(s) separately and then refresh them individually."

That's exactly the scenario under which I have problems.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:54 am 
Offline
Benevolent Dictator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:03 am
Posts: 17710
Hmmm, I wasn't even aware of that Limnos, maybe becauseI normally open all folders in a new Window.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 78 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group