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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:05 pm 
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It seems that Apple, in their infinite loop wisdom has decided that software can't be developed for older versions of OS X.

So now I need to update to run some software. I figure I might as well take this mini all the way and update from 10.10/Yosemite to 10.13/High Sierra.

My question is, do I need to update to 10.11, then to 10.12, then to 10.13, or can I just go directly to 10.13?

Thanks!

SC

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:18 pm 
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I don't know of any particular unique issues about jumping the entire way that would be solved by taking a more incremental approach.

You may still be better off making a bootable clone of your existing installation, installing 10.13 fresh, then migrating all or parts of your previous installation over (from the clone). While generally a PITA it's still less of a PITA than upgrading the install, having problems, only to throw in the towel and do it this way. Nightmare mode is to install fresh and then just copy stuff from the old user profile over by hand, ignoring the migration wizard completely.

How much of a pain the upgrade is really depends on what's installed. 10.13 doesn't support software that relies on older libraries (the obvious example is final cut pro but there's a lot of third party software affected), so depending on how much of that is installed it could be a pain. Applications are applications, they'll work or not, but if you have third party kexts and the like installed that's when the pain level rises.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:53 pm 
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I only use about a dozen applications on regular basis, and as far as I know, they don't have any installed kexts.

I think I've always done the manual migration when updating.

Maybe I can trust Apple at this point?

SC

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:08 pm 
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Image

Make a bootable backup first, then try it. That way you can roll back if it's not going to work out for you. Because, honestly, Apple's only official solution in that situation is to format & reinstall then restore from time machine. That's a massive timesink.

I've got a entire department full of people who no longer have administrative access because whenever Apple prompted them to install the latest OS update they just went ahead and did it. And while the upgrades didn't blow up their system, they did have the expected problems with installed software/hardware. So I think ugprades are certainly a lot less wonky than in days of yore.

I personally took a system from 10.8 to 10.12 not that long ago so if anything 10.10 to 10.13 shouldn't be nearly as frightening. But I wouldn't do it without a fallback.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:15 pm 
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The secondary drive is bootable, and I have backed up the Applications folder and my user folder to another drive. I think there is nothing else I need to back up...

SC

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:29 pm 
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I like using CCC or SuperDuper to make it into an exact copy of the boot drive so I can roll back to it without any hesitation (though it helps to test that it's actually bootable after the copy, been bitten there at least once!).

If that's what you did sorry, I just worry when i see people say they copied Applications and Users since there can be... interesting... permissions inside those two folders that a simple Finder copy probably won't duplicate.

If you have a good fallback there's no harm in trying the big leap. Honestly I don't think it'll be a huge pain if you don't have any third party kexts (SIP makes those fun).


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:36 pm 
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Permission issues can always be exciting! When I had some major issue crop up two months ago, I basically made all of my user folder/files 777. I like living on the edge! :mrgreen:

Why Finder is (or was in this case) still so lame with copying bulk files over is beyond me.

SC

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:33 am 
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So far, so lame. Seriously, it's what's weak this week. :roll: :oops:

It seems really clunky and slow. Maybe 10 seconds to change from one application to another one. :LameLameLameLame:

Caps lock was disabled, and it turns out I have to go to Accessibility, enable slow keys, and then slid the slider all the way to the left. Now caps lock works. :SwimmingInASeaOfLamosity:

Mail is constantly checking for mail and pinging it's dear heart away. In 10.10 there were 2 settings to set (because set Mail to check for mail manually would be too simple) but there is only the check manually setting, and I can't seem to find out how to set either of the other two settings as they are hidden away. :MiredInASweatyMassOfLameness:

Spent the last couple of hours trying to update assorted apps to 64bit, and updating some apps now that I can update them again.

SC

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Desktop: Intel mini: 2.33 GHz i5 (G4/C2D minis are out with bad HDDs) OS X 10.13
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:29 am 
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Best yet! Now it won't reboot in to the 10.13 install!

SC

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:30 am 
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That sounds like some migrated kext causing problems.

EtreCheck is a simple little app to display the important details of your system configuration and allow you to copy that information to the Clipboard. It is meant to be used with Apple Support Communities to help people help you with your Mac.
http://www.etresoft.com/etrecheck

Pastebin is a good place to paste the whole report...
https://pastebin.com/


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:10 pm 
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Well, I can't sign into the Apple Store to get the app. :roll:

The disk isn't even mounting, so it's not available to boot from.

I guess I'll give safe mode a try.

SC

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Desktop: Intel mini: 2.33 GHz i5 (G4/C2D minis are out with bad HDDs) OS X 10.13
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:02 pm 
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It seems that the install of HS automatically converted the file system to APFS so of course nothing on my externals could mount it. So I went to the trouble of making a bootable install USB drive to at least use Disk Utility and see what's up.

When I restarted holding option to pick a boot drive, the HS installed drive was right in the middle of the list! :? :roll:

And we're back to installing updated software!

SC

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Desktop: Intel mini: 2.33 GHz i5 (G4/C2D minis are out with bad HDDs) OS X 10.13
qBOX-SF with four 2 TB
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:42 pm 
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Whew, good to hear, but get the Etrecheck version from the dev's site, Apple limits what Apps in the AppStore can do.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:24 pm 
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BDAqua wrote:
Whew, good to hear, bit get the Etrecheck version from the dev's site, Apple limits what Apps in the AppStore can do.

I tried. I clicked on the link for the regular version and it took me to the Apple Store.

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Grumpy old man of Computing. Get off my CPU!

Desktop: Intel mini: 2.33 GHz i5 (G4/C2D minis are out with bad HDDs) OS X 10.13
qBOX-SF with four 2 TB
Peecee - Core i7 4771 W7 Pro 64
Server - Xeon 1231 FreeNAS


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:29 pm 
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You don't get this at the link?


Attachments:
EtrecheckDL.gif
EtrecheckDL.gif [ 43.45 KiB | Viewed 93 times ]
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:27 am 
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No, I didn't.

SC

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Desktop: Intel mini: 2.33 GHz i5 (G4/C2D minis are out with bad HDDs) OS X 10.13
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:36 am 
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Any Anti-Virus running?

I get this link clicking on that...

https://cdn.etrecheck.com/EtreCheckPro.zip


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:36 am 
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Finder keeps failing.

I'm considering hooking up a portable, and setting it up as a bootable back up.

Then booting from there and nuking the internal and doing a fresh install. Then migrate back to the internal, and install all the third party stuff fresh.

SC

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Grumpy old man of Computing. Get off my CPU!

Desktop: Intel mini: 2.33 GHz i5 (G4/C2D minis are out with bad HDDs) OS X 10.13
qBOX-SF with four 2 TB
Peecee - Core i7 4771 W7 Pro 64
Server - Xeon 1231 FreeNAS


Last edited by Smithcraft on Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:37 am 
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BDAqua wrote:
Any Anti-Virus running?

I get this link clicking on that...

https://cdn.etrecheck.com/EtreCheckPro.zip

Nope. No antivirus.

SC

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Grumpy old man of Computing. Get off my CPU!

Desktop: Intel mini: 2.33 GHz i5 (G4/C2D minis are out with bad HDDs) OS X 10.13
qBOX-SF with four 2 TB
Peecee - Core i7 4771 W7 Pro 64
Server - Xeon 1231 FreeNAS


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:47 pm 
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I held on to 10.6.8 until nothing in it worked anymore. Then it was 10.7.5 until nothing in it worked anymore. Reluctantly upgraded to 10.8/10.9/10.10, which did away with a lot of the niceties the Finder had from 10.6 - 10.7. Went to 10.11 and held on until September 2019 when I acquired a late 2012 5,1 Mac Pro, and am sticking with 10.13 for as long as I can. I wish the modern day OS versions were as good as 10.6.8; I still have a 3,1 with Bootcamp on a drive along with 10.6.8, and another drive running 10.7.5.

-he who stacks pork

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:48 am 
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Leopold Porkstacker wrote:
I held on to 10.6.8 until nothing in it worked anymore. Then it was 10.7.5 until nothing in it worked anymore. Reluctantly upgraded to 10.8/10.9/10.10, which did away with a lot of the niceties the Finder had from 10.6 - 10.7. Went to 10.11 and held on until September 2019 when I acquired a late 2012 5,1 Mac Pro, and am sticking with 10.13 for as long as I can. I wish the modern day OS versions were as good as 10.6.8; I still have a 3,1 with Bootcamp on a drive along with 10.6.8, and another drive running 10.7.5.

-he who stacks pork

If it weren't for Apple making it hard to develop for older versions of OS X, I'd maybe still be on 10.8 on this mini.

SC

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Grumpy old man of Computing. Get off my CPU!

Desktop: Intel mini: 2.33 GHz i5 (G4/C2D minis are out with bad HDDs) OS X 10.13
qBOX-SF with four 2 TB
Peecee - Core i7 4771 W7 Pro 64
Server - Xeon 1231 FreeNAS


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:23 pm 
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I stayed on 10.8 until just a couple of months ago.
I went to 10.11, but video drivers were awful for
my GTX 770, even including Nvidia's drivers.
Nvidia's drivers were better, but not very stable.
10.11's finder was almost useless. exhibiting
much of the same behavior as you are experiencing,

I went to 10.12 Sierra and that's where I'm staying for now,
as the video and finder problems went away.

Just for grins I've been playing 10.13, but I'm experiencing
much of same problems with it as 10.11.

I installed 10.13 and 10.14 on Parallels virtual machines also.
10.14 VM works pretty well, but 10.13 exhibits funky video
even on the Parallels VM.

I'm wondering if Apple is using two separate OS development teams since
10.11/10.13 act and look similar and 10.12/10.14 act and look similar.
If true, then Catalina probably inherited some of 10.11/10.13's funky quirks.

The only reason I upgraded from 10.8 is because of the new HTML5 internet BS.
10.8 was doing everything I needed to do already but HTML5.

Looks like I'm stuck where I'm at with Apple for the moment unless one of
the new Mac Pros falls off a truck. Hmmmm... The Apple Mac pro factory
isn't very far from here.... , Maybe I should follow some Apple trucks around...
:lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:58 pm 
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I just updated a system from 10.9 to 10.14 and it went astonishingly smoothly. It didn't even nuke MySQL, although it did kill changes to /etc/pf.conf and a bunch of other random settings.

For the record, PDFs look like...uh, something that's not pretty, in 10.13 and 10.14. They've just plain blurry without a high DPI display. It is very, very annoying if you have to spend more than about 20 seconds looking at PDFs in Preview.

Anyway, my guess is the upgrade will be fine.

- Anonymous


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:28 pm 
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Not sure why, but Sierra 10.12.6 has the best, prettiest
Graphics of any OSX version I've tried to date.

I am thinking Apple metal graphic drivers aren't
quite up to snuff.

Other folks on the internet that have tested and benchmarked
Apple graphics against windows with the same
video cards using dual boot have come to the same conclusion.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:40 am 
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Anonymous wrote:
I just updated a system from 10.9 to 10.14 and it went astonishingly smoothly. It didn't even nuke MySQL, although it did kill changes to /etc/pf.conf and a bunch of other random settings.

For the record, PDFs look like...uh, something that's not pretty, in 10.13 and 10.14. They've just plain blurry without a high DPI display. It is very, very annoying if you have to spend more than about 20 seconds looking at PDFs in Preview.

Anyway, my guess is the upgrade will be fine.

- Anonymous
To be fair, the stuff they didn't nuke is because the intern tasked with writing the install script screwed up and forgot to insert the usual "blow up installed FOSS" lines.


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