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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:06 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 8:13 pm
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Location: Caught between the moon and NYC
Thought I'd post some evidence of myself eating crow.

I finally got worried enough about the state of my offbrand SSD to buy a Samsung (system kept locking up/bluescreening followed by the SSD being offline until the system was power cycled). Got a 1TB EVO plus USB case for a little over $150. As a result I installed Samsung's data transfer wizard and, after it booted, their Magician software. The feature I was most worried about, RAPID, is disabled by default and everything else seems relatively helpful. Some features would be of questionable value under Boot Camp (e.g. overprovisioning, which just shrinks the OS partition and doesn't resize the disk itself, because boot drive repartition operations in guest OSes is perilous under Boot Camp), but most of them are helpful.

Fingers crossed the polar vortex doesn't cut my test short, the freezes usually happen after being on for a couple days (though somewhat random, since it happened about 30 minutes after booting when I initially tried to transfer to the new SSD). Unfortunately when I decide its working is when the real fun begins... my SSDs mount on the opposite side of the motherboard, so removing & installing SSDs requires removing & installing the motherboard. :(


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:16 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:01 pm
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@MB:

Good story . . . seems like "a pain" to have to pull the mobo to change out a hard drive . . . or "soft drive"--whatever the S stands for. : - ))))))

I am so far happy with the Samsung 860 EVO 500GB HD that I installed in the MBPro . . . so far all "went well" . . . . I think after I made my last post here there was a problem in the 10.6 install due to the "kextcache" problem in trying to get TRIM working in 10.6 . . . and I probably had to wipe that install and re-clone it over to the drive . . . . Other than that, no proprietary Samsung software was used, TRIM is enabled in the 10.9 partition and in the U-MATE 18.04 partition . . . .

Agree that there are issues with using Boot Camp . . . like once BC cuts the disk up the disk gets "locked" and no more partitions can be added or even revised . . . used to be that way, assuming it still is; I guess the only reason to use BC would be if the plane was to run Windows a whole lot . . . . Otherwise, these days with the "EFI boot" versions of linux there is no reason to use BC to run linux on Mac . . . .

Considering this computer has a C2Duo processor, with the SSD it does keep it "zippy" enough for daily laptop uses . . . .

eep


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:02 pm 
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Two, two, two good stories in one! :)


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:04 pm 
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Location: Caught between the moon and NYC
Unless something has changed, Windows CAN make changes to its partition under Boot Camp but - here's the weird bit - OSX won't recognize any changes made under Windows. So let's say you carve up your 500GB drive with 100GB for Windows and 400GB for OSX. Now dd that 500GB drive onto a 1 or 2TB drive. Suddenly you have a whole extra 500GB or 1.5TB of space. If you boot into Windows you can resize Windows to use the rest of that space and it's fully usable and functional. However if you reboot into OSX after resizing the Windows partition, OSX will still insist the partition is only 100GB. And because Windows is NTFS it can't resize the Windows partition.

Boot Camp is weird. It creates empty space before and after the Windows partition. While you can safely dump the empty space after the partition (or at least you can after moving to a larger drive), if you attempt to use the space before it then Windows will no longer be bootable.

It looks like the next generation of my case is a little bit wider so they mount the SSDs on trays that then get screwed down from opposite the motherboard. Better design. Unfortunately they went from 2 5.25" bays to 1 so I'd have to lose my combination USB 3.0 & media reader or my optical drive.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:31 pm 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
Unless something has changed, Windows CAN make changes to its partition under Boot Camp but - here's the weird bit - OSX won't recognize any changes made under Windows. So let's say you carve up your 500GB drive with 100GB for Windows and 400GB for OSX. Now dd that 500GB drive onto a 1 or 2TB drive. Suddenly you have a whole extra 500GB or 1.5TB of space. If you boot into Windows you can resize Windows to use the rest of that space and it's fully usable and functional. However if you reboot into OSX after resizing the Windows partition, OSX will still insist the partition is only 100GB. And because Windows is NTFS it can't resize the Windows partition.

Boot Camp is weird. It creates empty space before and after the Windows partition. While you can safely dump the empty space after the partition (or at least you can after moving to a larger drive), if you attempt to use the space before it then Windows will no longer be bootable.

It looks like the next generation of my case is a little bit wider so they mount the SSDs on trays that then get screwed down from opposite the motherboard. Better design. Unfortunately they went from 2 5.25" bays to 1 so I'd have to lose my combination USB 3.0 & media reader or my optical drive.


Straight dd won't duplicate the partitions and resize them. This is a good thing. It'll give exact copies. You'd need to use an actual clone program or disk utility to get one of the partitions to resize to a larger size (the OS X one obviously as OS X can't write to NTFS without third party drivers). If you use something like Acronis True Image Home to clone the drive, you'll get the partition sizes you request via its UI, at least for the Windows partition (again, same situation with HFS+/APFS partition relative to using Disk Utility on a drive with both NTFS + HFS/APFS partitions).

The empty space before a partition is going to be for the EFI partition. Since Windows doesn't use it, it isn't essential. But the other one contains the Windows bootloader. Touch it and it can blow up on you. This is one of the reasons you generally don't go manually mucking around with partitions unless you really know what you're doing.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:09 am 
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BDAqua wrote:
Two, two, two good stories in one! :)


:welcome: :coffee:

MonkeyBoy wrote:
- OSX won't recognize any changes made under Windows.

Boot Camp is weird. It creates empty space before and after the Windows partition. While you can safely dump the empty space after the partition (or at least you can after moving to a larger drive), if you attempt to use the space before it then Windows will no longer be bootable.


@MB: Indeed, as I've posted many times in the past on various linux forums, "OSX does not play well with others . . ." it claims to "not see them" . . . and BC is indeed "weird" . . . . I'd be inclined to try a separate drive for Windows, if I was trying to use it, rather than lock my drive with BC . . . BC is the guy that is "trying his best to help out, but keeps screwing up the situation . . . " :bonk:

Squishy Tia wrote:
Straight dd won't duplicate the partitions and resize them. This is a good thing. It'll give exact copies. You'd need to use an actual clone program or disk utility to get one of the partitions to resize to a larger size (the OS X one obviously as OS X can't write to NTFS without third party drivers). If you use something like Acronis True Image Home to clone the drive, you'll get the partition sizes you request via its UI, at least for the Windows partition (again, same situation with HFS+/APFS partition relative to using Disk Utility on a drive with both NTFS + HFS/APFS partitions).

The empty space before a partition is going to be for the EFI partition. Since Windows doesn't use it, it isn't essential. But the other one contains the Windows bootloader. Touch it and it can blow up on you. This is one of the reasons you generally don't go manually mucking around with partitions unless you really know what you're doing.
.[/quote]

@ST: I've never known what I was doing, but somehow managed to muddle through and things sort of "work" out . . . . I've been looking for a free version of CCC for my later editions of OSX, the old one I have from 10.6 days gets me up to 10.9 w/o issues, haven't tried it for the ones since.

The EFI partition tends to be fairly small, can't remember exactly, but isn't exactly enough to be thought of . . . as useful, and in GParted it is listed/labeled as "EFI" but is formatted as "NTFS" if I also remember correctly. I haven't messed with Windows on a Mac, but I have messed with linux and multi-boot installs quite a bit. Just because of OSX's insistence on being in charge I tend to use DU to cut out the area I want to use for a linux install and format it as "FAT32"???? That way OSX will "see it" . . . then booting the linux installer choosing "EFI boot" . . . and "manual partition" . . . I generally put the linux material at the "end" of the disk . . . and cut the area into its various parts . . . . Those parts will show up in DU as "greyed out" or "unmounted" . . . they don't show up as "disks" in OSX . . . but they do show up in the Boot manager/alt key . . . . It's a bit technical, but once you go through it a few times . . . not insurmountable. And, if something goes wrong, "nuke n pave" is always possible . . . fresh start.

It seems like I did push the limits of my skills on my '12 MP . . . now three drives, two of them are HDs, each cut up into partitions with two OSX installs and two linux . . . so essentially 4 + 4 . . . and that has created a "problem" with the various "UIs" . . . such that the two OpenSUSE installs "can't find" the swap partitions and it takes a few minutes to get them to boot. I guess if I had time and knowledge I could edit the grub files to re-set the UIs??? but something seemed to "not work" when I tried . . . not a big deal, I just use GParted to turn the swap on . . . . :snail:

Realizing we segued away from MBs "BC and my struggles with Windows" theme . . . but, as the OP I figure I have some latitude to . . . um, use . . . . :badteeth:

[edit: PS:] Just happening to be booting up in Gecko Rolling and doing my usual "swapon" in GParted, the "EFI Partition" is indeed sized at 200 MB . . . but formatted as "FAT32" . . . which clearly OSX will "recognize" as "worthy of being it its presence" . . . but, "ext4" partitions don't get as much recognition, etc.


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