XYMer's Home away from Home

When http://bbs.xlr8yourmac.com is down (i.e. always)
It is currently Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:50 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 38 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 7:02 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:51 pm
Posts: 484
Location: Minnesota, USA
My sister just gave me my niece's 2008 Unibody/Aluminum MacBook 5,1. Somebody (nobody remembers this being done) upgraded the OS to Mavericks. They don't have the original DVDs. I believe it has something like a 256GB HDD, half of which has been partitioned to Bootcamp with Windows (so it may have been the niece's boyfriend who last did things to the computer). Slow booting because whoever installed Mavericks did not check RAM first and it only has 2GB. Niece (who has had a MBA for a while now) recalls very occasional problems with video not displaying on boot, but my sister thinks the battery may have been swapped in this computer and that took care of it, but again no clear recollections.

I'm kind of in several minds about this. I mostly use a computer in a desktop configuration. I currently have a G4 Quicksilver with 256 + 160 GB HDDs, Tiger OS. I was thinking my next "big" jump would be to Snow Leopard, but I realize that too has already been abandoned by Apple and do I look a gift Mavericks in the mouth? Maybe I should just stick with Mavericks since it is on here (EveryMac says this computer can run "current" OS = Yosemite)? Then too there's the Bootcamp partition. I have never needed Windows but am loath to just wipe the drive because if I did need it I would have to go to the trouble of getting everything on it if I eventually did want it (if that makes sense). Another issue is I currently have more internal HDD storage on my G4 than the MB has even before losing half of it to Bootcamp.

Yes, yes, I know this goes against common wisdom of wiping a HDD with an inherited computer.

I guess I could solve a whole bunch of issues by buying a new, larger HDD and keep the other one in storage just in case I want Bootcamp or Mavericks (and have to buy Snow Leopard since this originally came with Leopard). I can get a 1TB HGST drive for about $75.

Various RAM upgrades 4, 6, 8 GB are possible ranging $38-$70. What does Mavericks really need? I take it Snow Leopard prefers something along the 4 GB lines? I might do some modest video things on this.

So, personal preference dilemmas aside, what makes sense for a 7 year old MacBook? Could I sit this on a shelf and use it pretty much in desktop mode with monitor, keyboard, mouse, running 24/7? How much is worth investing? $150-$200 for 1TB drive, 8GB RAM, minidisplay to DVI adaptor, Snow Leopard? Forget all that and slap in $40 of RAM to take it to 4GB (so Mavericks does not take 2 minutes to boot) so I can use it a few days a year when I am on vacation somewhere pretty much as it is and continue shopping for a replacement for the G4?

Any issues with this model I don't know about (like was that video issue my niece mentioned a harbinger of something not unusual with this model)? My Quicksilver has been running 24/7 for for the past 13 years. Is the MacBook in this class of reliability and longevity or is it in the class of newer Apple stuff which is only intended to be used for 5 years so why bother making parts that will last longer?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 9:37 am 
Offline
Benevolent Dictator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:03 am
Posts: 14579
Go for a bigger HDD or SSD & 8 GB of RAM...

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other%20 ... 6DDR3S8GP/

http://eshop.macsales.com/MyOWC/Upgrade ... rnalDrives

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Upd ... 518.0.html

It's not in the QS reliability range,but probably more reliable than any later MB.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 9:41 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2009 2:15 pm
Posts: 5914
Location: NYC
A tip, try to find the RAM you need by Crucial at newegg. Usually cheaper and just as good as OWC.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 5:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:02 pm
Posts: 1007
Location: Melbourne
You do have a few options, though I'd keep it 'as it is' software wise because the copy of Mavericks is no longer available. This gives you an up-to-date OS. At least for short while. And you have a copy of Windows if you ever need it.

Mavs runs well with 4GB but as ever the case with RAM, the more the better.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 2:14 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:09 am
Posts: 468
Tiger to Mavericks is a quantum leap. Not so much in 'look and feel' but in feature set and default way of functioning. Snow Leopard (10.6.3) DVDs are available on eBay for between £10-£15 ($15-$22?), and would be a far gentler upgrade from Tiger.

RAM upgrade is always recommended, and as you say, Crucial is far cheaper than Apple. 4GB would be perfectly adequate for 10.6 especially if you're not going to give it heavy use.

However, if you're comfortable with Mavericks already (and have turned off Autosave, Versions, 'unnatural' scrolling, and other crap you don't want or need :D ) then stay with it, but be aware that Mav uses more RAM (though more efficiently) than Snow.

As far as Snow Leopard is concerned - yes, it's been abandoned by Apple, and Safari 5 is less and less supported by website upgrades. However, of all OS X versions, it is arguably the most loved by older Mac users and is still used by around 20% of Mac owners who have passed through the 10.6 cycle at some point. There are many many many applications that will still run on it (from Photoshop CS6 to iTunes 12) and lots of workarounds for those that don't. All subsequent releases of OS X have had a twin agenda behind them : 1) convergence with iOS and 2) persuading PC owners - especially those who own iPhones / iPads - to switch to Mac. 10.6 was arguably the last great independent OS X release that was developed entirely for its own sake, i.e. for Mac users.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:51 pm
Posts: 484
Location: Minnesota, USA
Lots of great information people. Thank you!

I'm now tending towards:

- Buy 8 GB Crucial RAM from Newegg $47 (save about $20 over OWC using promo code, and price includes shipping).

- Backup clone current drive to an archive drive so I have Windows and Mavericks in storage should I want them. I will also have it on the 250 GB HDD I will be replacing and can boot from that with a OWC/NewerTech Voyageur unit for short-term use of stuff on the 250GB drive.
Q: Will a Bootcamp partition backup using a standard Mac clone utility such as CarbonCopyCloner?)

- Replace current HDD with 500GB or 1TB. HGST or WD? 7200 or 5400 rpm? Nice to have a bit of wiggle room after being restricted to 330 GB. SSD would be nice (Hey, BDAqua, do you still have that extra one you mentioned a few months ago?) but would mandate having external drive on all the time since I use iTunes almost constantly. One question regarding having a larger internal is heat. I currently leave my computer on 24/7 and it is actually doing something during most of that time. Can a Macbook take this, particularly if it has a platter style drive vs. SSD?

- Install Snow Leopard on new HDD. Purchase DVD from Apple since it is only $20 with free shipping; probably not worth the hassle of using e-bay to save a few $.

- Buy minidisplay-->DVI converter so I can use present 22" monitor with computer.

- Am thinking about buying cloning tool (I don't think there are any free ones for Mac anymore are there?) since my wife's computer is currently using Mavericks and needs backup strategy (I shudder at the idea of ever needing to download Mavericks installer over a 1Mbps connection). I would need it to archive-backup the copy on the 250GB MacBook drive too. Jump to new CCC seems pricey but I guess it was free for many years so can't gripe too much. Is CCC still the way to go?

- A whole bunch of stuff needing ordering at the same time but not really directly related to MacBook upgrade except I may be completely re-arranging storage drives over the next few weeks. Have duplicate 640GB and 1 TB "blue" WD drives with archive stuff I am thinking of moving over to 4TB HGST drives (need buying) for archive purposes, thereby freeing up smaller drives for backup for my 2008 Macbook and wife's 128GB 2014 MBP, and archive+backup drives for her modest photo collection. Probably OWC since I also need a Voyageur USB drive mount for her use and need a second one for doing all this file transfer (I already have a vintage one which is capable of Firewire booting my G4).


Last edited by Limnos on Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:50 pm 
Offline
Benevolent Dictator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:03 am
Posts: 14579
7200 rpm for sure.

Yes, I'm sure I have it, but it was only 115 GB, & still no idea where it is in the piles, (as well as shutting down my store & trying to find 3K sq' of space to store stuff from there, when I have zero sq' available).


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:51 pm
Posts: 484
Location: Minnesota, USA
I'd rather sacrifice the optical drive and put in a modest (inexpensive!?) SSD for space + good size HDD for storage. I do use an optical drive, but only once or twice a month for an hour or so and figure that I may end up having to buy an external optical anyway at some stage as that seems to be the direction of the future (with Apple) even if you have a Mini or something larger.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:41 pm 
Offline
Benevolent Dictator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:03 am
Posts: 14579
If I get home in the daylight I'll look for it again.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:25 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:09 am
Posts: 468
Limnos wrote:
I'd rather sacrifice the optical drive and put in a modest (inexpensive!?) SSD for space + good size HDD for storage. I do use an optical drive, but only once or twice a month for an hour or so and figure that I may end up having to buy an external optical anyway at some stage as that seems to be the direction of the future (with Apple) even if you have a Mini or something larger.


Yes, my iMac's SuperDrive went belly up (still reads CDs) so for the occasional viewing of a DVD I've bought an external USB DVD RW. Apart from your own DVD library there's even less use for DVDs these days than for CDs.

Shudder no more about the prospect of downloading Mavericks. It's no longer available from the App Store and was never available on DVD.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:31 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:51 pm
Posts: 484
Location: Minnesota, USA
My wife's computer came with Mavericks so would it not re-install as the default base OS if so required, or is it like iOS now where you only get the newest version which will run on that model computer? We do not plan on upgrading her computer which is why I want a clone of it as soon as possible. She really makes pretty minimal use of it (about once a week), mostly for text editing and a bit of web browsing.

Last night I ordered 8GB Crucial RAM for the MacBook from Newegg, and a Snow Leopard DVD from Apple. I am going to sit down with a piece of paper today and go through my hard drive inventory to figure out what I need and how I will re-arrange file storage with existing and new purchases. I'll probably just order all that from OWC because I also want a second Voyageur docking station and a MiniDisplay to DVI converter cable (it gets to be a hassle ordering from simply the cheapest place for each and by the time you pay shipping for 4 orders you may as well pay the slightly higher price for some of them at one place). If BDAqua comes through with a SSD I can replace the optical drive with an external and have a SSD boot drive in the MacBook for speed and a standard 500 or 1 TB drive for storage, otherwise I'll only upgrade the hard drive to a 7200 rpm larger version.

Am I correct a 7200 rpm might be warmer than a 5400 rpm drive? I guess with no SSD 7200 is the way to go but with a SSD a 5400 is probably fast enough for regular data storage use and may be cooler, particularly if it does not need to spin all the time when not using data on the drive?

Any inclinations about HGST vs. WD? I know enterprise drives are the top of the line for WD but we are talking about a 7 year old computer and I have already spent $70 so far on RAM and OS.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:46 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2009 2:15 pm
Posts: 5914
Location: NYC
Quote:
My wife's computer came with Mavericks so would it not re-install as the default base OS if so required

It should, but might need her Apple ID if you want to get it from the Store for your MacBook. Even there, since it's not a previous purchase, might not be available. This stuff is always a perplexing grey area.
Quote:
Am I correct a 7200 rpm might be warmer than a 5400 rpm drive?

I just put a 7200 in a Mini. It doesn't run any warmer than the 5400 it replaced.

I put one of these (was $10 less when it was on newegg) in the Mini. It gave me a hell of a time until I discovered hdapm, via BD, which stopped the heads parking every ten seconds or so--got up to 3,000 load cycles until I got it to stop doing that. (The hdapm developer tells me that it should work OK in 10.9 and 10.1). Otherwise, that drive seems to be OK...I guess. Not entirely sure yet that I would recommend it. But at that price, you might want to take a chance.

Might be some other things of interest at goharddrive.com. Although I solved my problem with hdapm, stay as far away as possible from any "green" or "green" wannabe drive--I know it works on mine, but wouldn't want to find out the hard way that it doesn't on some other drive.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:21 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:51 pm
Posts: 484
Location: Minnesota, USA
The MacBook has Mavericks on it already (presumably my niece's AppleID, or maybe my sister's). My intention is to make a clone of that (for backup), then remove the original drive and use it in a docking station if I really need it for quick use, but probably just sit in a box "in case". I then install either a SSD with HDD or just a HDD alone and install Snow Leopard for regular use. I may even be able to continue to use my iTunes 7.5 ;) If in 2 years I decide I routinely need Mavericks I can just clone it back and keep my fingers crossed I don't run into the AppleID kafuffle.

I have a couple of 3.5" WD "blues" which have had no problems as external archive drives (start once or twice a month for an hour or so). I was going to avoid the greens (known so-so, particularly as boot drives), and didn't know if HGST was also a possibility. I recall having a IBM Deskstar that lasted forever (never failed in ages of use) but then recall them suddenly falling to the bottom of the pile when bought by Hitachi to be replaced by Seagate at the top (I have a 8+ year old Barracuda in my G4 right now). Now Seagate is the pits and when I last bought drives 2 years ago Western Digital blues were at the top...??? Constant reshuffle. :roll: I have seen recent discussions and web posts lauding HGST reliability so was wondering if that was the way to go, or maybe only for 3.5" drives?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:38 am 
Offline
Benevolent Dictator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:03 am
Posts: 14579
Word not in yet on the 2.5" HGSTs reliability.

Whew, what a depressing mess my house is, no luck yet on the SSD, will keep looking though.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:31 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:09 am
Posts: 468
Limnos wrote:
I then install either a SSD with HDD or just a HDD alone and install Snow Leopard for regular use. I may even be able to continue to use my iTunes 7.5 ;) If in 2 years I decide I routinely need Mavericks I can just clone it back and keep my fingers crossed I don't run into the AppleID kafuffle.


You would find that an upgrade to iTunes 9 is pretty painless if iTunes 7.5 goes belly up in Snow. Apple still offer 9.1.1 as a Support Download and minimum requirements are 10.4.11 so apparently still available (as are iTunes 10, 11 and 12)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 5:58 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:51 pm
Posts: 484
Location: Minnesota, USA
Thanks for the suggestion. iTunes 7.5 says it is "universal" and I am hoping a 2 year pre-date to Snow Leopard isn't too much. I actually have a whole bunch of iTunes installers. I sometimes download newer versions when they appear just in case I should ever want them. Additionally, if you do a web search you can often find direct links to Apple's download site where the links are still good for older versions of software, it is just that Apple removes many of those links from its own web pages. E.g. iTunes version 7.5.0 http://appldnld.apple.com.edgesuite.net ... nes7.5.dmg


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:29 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:09 am
Posts: 468
Limnos wrote:
Thanks for the suggestion. iTunes 7.5 says it is "universal" and I am hoping a 2 year pre-date to Snow Leopard isn't too much. I actually have a whole bunch of iTunes installers. I sometimes download newer versions when they appear just in case I should ever want them. Additionally, if you do a web search you can often find direct links to Apple's download site where the links are still good for older versions of software, it is just that Apple removes many of those links from its own web pages. E.g. iTunes version 7.5.0 http://appldnld.apple.com.edgesuite.net ... nes7.5.dmg


You're probably fine with iTunes 7.5. (As long as you don't have an iPod/iPhone/iPad ;) ). I did follow up your link to see where it went, but found iTunes 7.5 downloading so I squashed it fast! I'm sure it wouldn't/couldn't have overwritten iTunes 10 but you can't be too careful.

I did notice links on Apple Support to iTunes 1 and iTunes 2 which is a bit bizarre, especially as all versions between them and iTunes 9 are no longer there.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:21 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:51 pm
Posts: 484
Location: Minnesota, USA
Oh yes, they are all direct download links. Apple doesn't have the information pages any longer but installer files are still on the servers. iTunes 1 and 2? I hadn't noticed that. It does make sense if they are still pretending to in any way acknowledge existence (dare I say "support") of pre-OSX systems. Either that or somebody slipped up big time.

No, it wouldn't have done anything to your iTunes 10. Read all the long topics on Apple Support Communities about the hoops people have to jump through to downgrade any version of iTunes.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:35 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:09 am
Posts: 468
Limnos wrote:
Oh yes, they are all direct download links. Apple doesn't have the information pages any longer but installer files are still on the servers. iTunes 1 and 2? I hadn't noticed that. It does make sense if they are still pretending to in any way acknowledge existence (dare I say "support") of pre-OSX systems. Either that or somebody slipped up big time.


I just tried to download iTunes 2 for OS X as the Download button is still clickable ... but the link is "Not found". I have a theory... now that iTunes has got beyond v10, there's probably a Search algorithm that recognises not only 11.n and 12.n, but also 1.n and 2.n as well (same way that some Apple links got confused by 10.4.11). So iTunes 1 and iTunes 2 come up dutifully in the list of products. When iTunes 13 comes out, I'll revisit and see if iTunes 3 has magically appeared in the list.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:10 am 
Offline
Benevolent Dictator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:03 am
Posts: 14579
Great theory, as I've seen Apple's search not be able to tell the difference between uppercase i & lower case L even!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:13 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:51 pm
Posts: 484
Location: Minnesota, USA
MacBiter is right. If you go to https://support.apple.com/downloads/itunes and keep on clicking show more until you reach the end there are several links to pages with information and downloads for iTunes 1.1 and 2.0.4 vintage OS9 and very early OSX. But that is it, just links. Click on one and the actual file is "not found".


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:51 pm
Posts: 484
Location: Minnesota, USA
On a related issue since I am planning on using Snow Leopard and we are getting a new printer soon, does anybody know if older Brother printer drivers work with newer printers? We are thinking about getting a Brother HL-L2360DW laser printer but the compatibility is listed as OSX 10.7.5 up. I guess I could try turning the MacBook into a dual boot but this will be a real nuisance just to print.

A correction to an earlier idea about using CCC to clone the Bootcamp partition. Can't. It is apparently pretty tough to do even if you use WinClone and I don't know I want to spend the money on that for something I am unlikely to ever need.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:47 pm 
Offline
Benevolent Dictator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:03 am
Posts: 14579
Quote:
Brother HL-L2360DW

If you don't need AirPrint, I bet it does… does it use Postscript?

PS. Do you ever check your PMs?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 1:14 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:09 am
Posts: 468
Limnos wrote:
We are thinking about getting a Brother HL-L2360DW laser printer but the compatibility is listed as OSX 10.7.5 up.


Sometimes peripheral makers are just lazy and put the latest version of an OS as the minimum without even testing on earlier ones. Or, as I found with Canon, they abandoned their old scanners (OS 9-era) round about Panther or Tiger but left the drivers on their website; I found that after tweaking the ancient VISE driver installer I could make my scanner work in 10.6. Printers should be even less complicated? Just a thought or two...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 7:10 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:51 pm
Posts: 484
Location: Minnesota, USA
Currently I do the printing on our 8 year old Lexmark inkjet because it is in my room and I am wired to it. One thought is get a wireless unit so my wife can print to it from her MBP which she normally uses downstairs. The Brother unit boasts wireless but there are many reviews complaining about lost connections with Macs (and it doesn't seem much better with HP and there it seems impossible to get good tech support) and having to revert to a wired connection in the end (so back to her carrying flash drives with PDFs to my room and my printing them for her). Then arises the issue if my printer won't have the drivers if I revert my new computer to 10.6 (and my current one is using 10.4). It may be that one has to use 10.7.5+ to do the initial setup but after that an older version may work with the printer. I was just wondering if anybody had experienced this. ;) I too would like to use it wireless since the MacBook only has two USB ports. I plan on using one for an external keyboard+mouse, and the other one for external backup drive (ethernet port is going to be for wired connection to ISP modem).


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 38 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group