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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:17 pm 
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este.el.paz wrote:
@anonymous:

Thanks for the concurrence . . . my original thought was "Why get something faster than the mobo can do?" . . . but, in looking around it does seem like the faster SSDs are cheaper by a tad bit than the older, slower SSDs . . . so, seems smarter to go with the faster yet cheaper items and take the speed hit . . . as just one of those "sacrifices that have to be made . . . " . . . :whip:

eep


For older machines, the real benefit of SSDs is the seek time, lower energy usage, and less heat generated. All three are definite wins for laptops.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:47 pm 
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@ST:

So you're saying SSDs are "cool"???? Seems like the wisdom decision is to go SSD . . . waiting for Black Fry-day or Tech Lunes for the cool deals . . . .

eep


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:22 pm 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
You will want to be sure TRIM is enabled with a Samsung EVO, but Linux should be capable of doing that w/o much drama, while trimforce is around for OS X back to at least 10.11 which should support your 09.
.


https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/enabling-trim-for-samsung-850-evo.1988239/

Folks:

So, went with MB's suggestion of the Samsung EVO 860 . . . install seemed to go well, fit in the space and all the parts went back in, etc . . . cloned the two OSXs, 10.6.8 and 10.9.5 over from an Ext HD . . . and I'll have to do a fresh install of Linux Mint xx when I get to it.

I then tried to download the Samsung app they called "Magician" . . . which seems like it's an .exe file and is only for Windows; so then I was thinking to try to use the basic Terminal commands to "enable trimforce" . . . but I recalled that it might be more complicated to do that in 10.9 . . . . I tried to read through some of the forum posts across a few threads to find what I thought was a link to enabling TRIM in older versions of OSX . . . in my case 10.9.5 . . . ???

Couldn't seem to find it, so I ran a search in the Googlie "OSX 10.9 trimforce" . . . and the top hit had a link to a file that downloaded rather than opening, and then a little bit complicated Terminal commands . . . so I looked at another link, posted above, and in post #5 "KALLT" provides some amendments/edits to the other link, which they mentioned in this thread as "shady" . . . . The other option was to buy an app . . . .

It seems like this gent "KALLT" was saying that it wasn't necessary to use TRIM in OSX . . . this thread was from 2016 and for the 850 EVO . . . just looking for some feedback on it, whether TRIM should be enabled, if so, does the #5 post seem to be "tidy" as far as 10.9 and TRIM goes? Or, would it be easier to set it up when I get a linux install in partition number three? Not sure whether linux can do anything with .exe files . . . was thinking for a second that Samsung's Magician might work in Linux . . . ????? Most of the time I'm using 10.9 . . . . A few items didn't seem to get cloned back, rEFInd didn't seem to revive, and SMARTReporter also didn't make it back . . . I was thinking that that was because SSDs don't have SMART???

eep


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:31 pm 
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If it were me I would stay away from that OEM software with a 10 foot pole. I have seen software like that go horribly wrong to the point that the drive goes offline and you lose all data that wasn't backed up. If that's the only way to upgrade the SSD firmware then I'd create a unique OS with it installed that you don't use for anything else and only use to update the firmware solely to minimize the chance of failure.

trimforce is available in 10.10.4 and up. If you expect to spend the majority of your time in 10.9.5 for some reason then I suppose you might want to invest in trim enabler. Punch "trim site:www.xlr8yourmac.com" into google and see some decent information on how to enable TRIM in older OSes, although in a quick search I didn't find anything for 10.9.5 just 10.9.3 and 10.9.4.

KALLT raises a valid point that the OSes that require trimforce and other hacking in order to enable TRIM may not implement TRIM properly. This won't damage the drive but it may not be as useful as trimforce. Basically in those older OSes TRIM was officially supported only with Apple SSDs. Those SSDs were proprietary Apple parts with their own custom firmware and who knows what else inside. Assuming those SSDs work the same as off-the-shelf SSDs isn't a good assumption. Assuming discussions about those OSes apply to current OSes is also a bad assumption.

Now, just because TRIM doesn't work perfectly in the old OSes does that mean it shouldn't be enabled? Only if it causes new problems. Since the issue appears to be that that it might not run as often as TRIM in a more modern OS, the fix isn't to not enable TRIM, it's to enable it and live with caveats.

That being said, I'm pretty sure KALLT was confusing the EVO and PRO lines. PRO has far more robust garbage collection routines, while EVO uses "normal" garbage collection. With normal garbage collection if you don't use TRIM the SSD will eventually run out of empty blocks and drastically slow down. This takes months, sometimes years, but it will eventually occur. The more full the SSD is the more quickly it will crop up.

If you don't spend a whole lot of time in 10.9.5 I wouldn't worry that much about it. If you can afford $15 then get trim enabler. If you spend a lot of time in 10.9.5 then def. get trim enabler but you can probably hold off for a little while (assuming the drive is mostly empty in terms of used space across all drives).

While it's kind of logical to think "well this block of space I set aside for 10.9.5 will be affected but the rest of the drive will be fine" that's not how SSDs work. As you use the SSD it will allocate blocks as it sees fit across the entire drive, so the one bad apple OS will slowly but surely eat blocks and not tell the drive they're available to be wiped. Even if all your other OSes are saints that one OS, assuming you use it a lot, can eat up blocks and make the entire drive slow. I mention this because I was thinking that way myself for a little while when writing this reply and had to adjust my tactics.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:45 pm 
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@MB:

Thanks for the time on this one . . . in the interim from when I posted I looked around at some other threads and someone mentioned they used "Chameleon SSD" which is an open source app, which I like . . . not that $15 is outrageous, but I like "open" much better . . . .

Looking at the Chameleon site looks like a "download" is available, haven't had time to mess with it, but, on his FAQ page he has the similar commands to run that the previous link offered . . . which possibly is what the app would do via GUI?

Also, in one of these threads was the comment that "applejack will run TRIM . . . if it's enabled . . . " (something like that) . . . and, interestingly, the applejack install I did in the 10.6 partition survived the clone back into the computer, so when I booted into single user applejack showed some lines about "Block xxx/xxxxx/xxxxx/" . . . that seems to mean that Apple has blocked TRIM for third party SSDs, and it appears that these basic commands would "unlock" the TRIM capacity, that is supposed to be available from 10.6.8 and forward . . . ????

But, thanks for the insight that each OS would have to have TRIM enabled . . . I mostly use 10.9.5, which is according to the Chameleon website, is the most popular choice of OSX for the MacBook Pro . . . and, as far as running 2.53 GHz C2D processor . . . good OS for the machine. No reason to move up until FF won't support it . . . . But, I keep 10.6 around as the "original" OS, and I like to play with linux of some flavor . . . can't remember if there was any command line "hints" for getting 10.6's "TRIM" enabled, but I think the "unblocking" of the Apple "block of TRIM services" might be similar??

I did notice that in DU in both 10.6 & 10.9 that I have installed now, the "erase free space" button was "greyed" out and not "click-able" . . . and the idea of using "erase free space" might have come from the "KALLT" guy or another post that was saying that since Apple's version of TRIM wouldn't be happening "naturally," that running the "unblock" commands, and then using "erase free space" to "run TRIM"???? Something like that . . . ??? Of course I haven't run the commands or installed Chameleon yet to run those commands . . . but, still seems "odd" that the "erase free space" option wasn't showing up???

eep


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:59 pm 
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The EVO line of SSDs actually has decent garbage collection, though it is scheduled less frequently than the Pro line. The reason for that has to do with the type of NAND in the EVO vs. the Pro. The Pro uses MLC NAND, which has a higher write endurance, whereas the EVO line uses TLC NAND, which has a lower write endurance, thus must have less frequent garbage collection in order to not reduce lifespan too much.

I'd kill for an SLC line of Samsung SSDs, but SLC is just about extinct except in very very niche enterprise markets.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:46 pm 
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Running 10.9 on Samsung 850 Pros at work, with maybe half a dozen GB written per day, I experienced very significant slowdowns after about a year without TRIM enabled.

To enable TRIM in 10.9.5:
  • Backup your data in case you have an oops.
  • Make a backup of the block storage driver:
    sudo cp /System/Library/Extensions/IOAHCIFamily.kext/Contents/PlugIns/IOAHCIBlockStorage.kext/Contents/MacOS/IOAHCIBlockStorage /System/Library/Extensions/IOAHCIFamily.kext/Contents/PlugIns/IOAHCIBlockStorage.kext/Contents/MacOS/IOAHCIBlockStorage.bak
  • Edit the binary driver:
    sudo perl -pi -e 's|(^\x00{1,20})[^\x00]{9}(\x00{1,20}\x54)|$1\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00$2|sg' /System/Library/Extensions/IOAHCIFamily.kext/Contents/PlugIns/IOAHCIBlockStorage.kext/Contents/MacOS/IOAHCIBlockStorage
  • Rebuild kext caches and coax the system in to noticing the change:
    sudo kextcache -system-prelinked-kernel
    sudo kextcache -system-caches
    sudo touch /System/Library/Extensions/
  • Reboot
  • Finally, check the system profiler's SATA/SAS section to make sure TRIM is enabled.

See more at https://gist.github.com/clarencesong/3768688

This works quite neatly and ensures your drive will continue operating like new for many years.

- Anonymous


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:04 am 
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@ST && Anonymous:

Thanks to both of you for the responses . . . I can say that the MBP is noticeably "quicker" with the new SSD . . . and it's lighter in weight due to the SSD weighing almost nil . . . kind of throws the balance off while handling the machine . . . . : - )))

Not being a command line educated individual, but having spent some time on various linux forums as a receiver of guidance(s), many times it would start off with advice to do long lines of commands, with some complications to do . . . then later there might be a suggestion to run a very basic command, like the "sudo trimforce enable" . . . as the concept . . . and often the simpler terms would indeed work . . . . That was my lead up to the KALLT suggestions, which I believe was in response to a thread for a 10.9/MBP thread for an 850 EVO . . . which seems to be a little simpler . . . ??? I don't know enough to know the distinction, the data that Anonymous posted looks to be similar to what is out there . . . the function of which does seem to be to "unlock" the lock that Apple has put into the system .kext?? The question is whether all of these commands do the same or similar things, obviously since I would copy/paste the commands it wouldn't really matter whether the is short or long . . . just trying to save virtual memory as much as possible. : - 0

Code:
Code:

cd /System/Library/Extensions/
cd IOAHCIFamily.kext/Contents/PlugIns/
cd IOAHCIBlockStorage.kext/Contents/MacOS/
exp='s,\000APPLE SSD\000,\000\000\000\000\000\000\000\000\000\000\000,sg'
sudo perl -pi.trimsave -e "$exp" IOAHCIBlockStorage
sudo touch /System/Library/Extensions

Then reboot.


I will have to get back to the Chameleon site to check if he has something posted on 10.6 there . . . and then, pondering between installing U-MATE 18 and/or Gecko MATE stable/rolling in the third slot . . . haven't yet looked for how-to's on enabling TRIM in linux . . . if that would even be necessary??

eep


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:57 am 
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este.el.paz wrote:
I did notice that in DU in both 10.6 & 10.9 that I have installed now, the "erase free space" button was "greyed" out and not "click-able" . . . and the idea of using "erase free space" might have come from the "KALLT" guy or another post that was saying that since Apple's version of TRIM wouldn't be happening "naturally," that running the "unblock" commands, and then using "erase free space" to "run TRIM"???? Something like that . . . ??? Of course I haven't run the commands or installed Chameleon yet to run those commands . . . but, still seems "odd" that the "erase free space" option wasn't showing up???
Okay. This is part of what I was mentioning in my last paragraph. You have to forget the idea that space that's not being used by the OS is "free" and can be "erased." The SSD allocates blocks as it sees fit. Block 45 in partition 2 can be in block 8906 one day and the next time its written to ends up being block 234 the next day but to the OS its still in block 45. How are you going to "erase free space" when you have no way of knowing what blocks are where on the SSD?

Every time you write data to the SSD a new block is being utilized. Even if you think you're "erasing" a block, you're not actually erasing the whole block of space on the SSD, you're just making it write to a new spot on a flash chip which may very well contain additional data. This is why erase free space is unavailable. In addition if you were to write zeros to "empty" blocks you would be increasing the write count of your SSD at alarming rates.

I think you're falling into the Mrs. H realm here (no offense to her or you intended), where you're reading information on other sites that are full of half-truths and flat-out wrong information and getting off the path. I would be very very very very very careful about using old information because many times it was wrong when it was written and its even more wrong today.

As far as TRIM Enabler, it works by patching the same file Anonymous is asking you to patch. Essentially you're paying $15 for TRIM Enabler to do the work for you. Either do it his way and do it yourself or pay them to do it for you. Either way that file should be patched.

As for 10.6.8, it was the first OS with TRIM support and it looks like TRIM Enabler 2 supports it:
https://support.cindori.org/article/24- ... -enabler-2


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 1:46 pm 
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@MB:

Thanks for the details on the nature of SSDs . . . well, indeed, I have searched around on Google for "information" . . . but, been kicking around on various forums to know that not all information on the web is created equal . . . so I ask questions before I pull the trigger . . . possibly asking "stupid" questions . . . . But, clearly the system "knows" that the SSD can't be "freely erased" . . . as the button is not "active" . . . so even if I wanted to . . . the system wouldn't respond, etc.

And, right, it appears that TRIM enabler and/or Chameleon are all just doing this short series of commands . . . which doesn't look super complicated, my question is, does the shorter looking KALLT command offering make sense, in comparison to the longer options that Anonymous posted, similar to the other commands mentioned in the KALLT thread???

eep


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:10 pm 
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No offenses intended, the problem when it comes to TRIM is there was a LOT of misinformation floating around in Mac circles because it wasn't enabled by default, so therefore the Apple fanboys assumed that meant it wasn't needed because otherwise Apple would have enabled it, yada yada yada, lots of misinformation floating around.

As for the method, KAALT is the only person posting his version of it. Many people replied to the page Anonymous linked to that it worked (except for the ones who tried to apply the patch to 10.6, etc.). I don't notice any mentions of failures in 10.9.5. I've seen roughly the same steps as that page posted in a million other places on the internet with similar success stories.

Now, that being said, if you want 10.6.8 to work, you're stuck trying to figure it out. If it was me and I wasn't hurting for $15 I'd just spend that and use TRIM Enabler in both 10.9.5 and 10.6.8. TRIM Enabler is basically just running these patches but it checks that permissions are correct before/after and does the whole kext rebuild thing with just a simple click and reboot. Plus you have someone to yell at if it goes wrong, versus screaming into the ether of long dead threads that nobody really looks at anymore.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:24 pm 
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@MB:

No worries. Appreciate the advice. As the installs are still "fresh" I may fiddle with some of the commands and see how it goes, if I have to re-install too many times I might give up and pay . . . or try Chameleon . . . . I'd rather not pay more dealing with Apple's overzealous protectionism of machine's that they really no longer "support" . . . .

eep


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 6:12 pm 
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Code:
sudo kextcache -system-prelinked-kernel
Can't create kext cache under / - owner not root.


@MB, Anonymous, ST, et al:

So I followed the post from Anonymous's link to GitHub and I ran the series of commands in 10.9.5 . . . and that appeared to go well, and checking in system report it shows "TRIM support: yes" . . . and SMART status is "verified" . . . so that is cool.

Then I went to my 10.6.8 install and tried to run the same more or less series . . . asked for my password on the first "sudo cp" item, but when I got down to the "kextcache" line I got this error listed above . . . . I recalled from some past Terminal endeavors in 10.6 I had some problems with "root" . . . . I searched Google and found the "how to enable root" and I did that via the GUI in Directory Services . . . repeated the command from the place where I was, figuring the item has already been "copied" and the "perl" has been run . . . got the same error. Figuring that the system couldn't "recognize" the "enabling" . . . I logged out & failed again. Rebooted and failed again. Downloaded Chameleon and "failed again" because it only works with 10.7 . . . .

Any ideas on how to get "/" owner to be "root"??? I also did "sudo passwd root" (????) and re-set the admin password . . . . I'm logged into the Admin account . . . but seemingly not being recognized as the rightful Lord of my Domain?????

Most critically is the 10.9.5 partition, which will be and has been the main squeeze system . . . think it's approx 250 GB out of the 500, the 10.6 account got 100 GB . . . and the rest are set as "ExFAT" for some linux installs . . . whenever I get there . . . . Since the 10.9 side commands went very efficiently . . . I guess I'm due for some "suffering" on the 10.6 side . . . ???

Any thoughts for how to break through and get Terminal to "enable me"?? Possibly some connection to being a clone of a clone?? How fatal is it if TRIM was not to be released in the 10.6 partition, if it largely goes unvisited??? It could be nuked n paved if having it un-TRIMed would be unwise . . . ????????

eep


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 6:25 pm 
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Uh no, stop, do not pass go, do not collect $200, danger danger will robinson.

What you need to do for 10.6.8 is find instructions for 10.6.8, not try to use instructions for a different version. Its not going to go well for poor little IOAHCIBlockStorage.kext under 10.6.8, assuming its able to find the expression and patch it (more than likely it won't).

Notice how the instructions list what version of OS each command is intended for? That's the OS version its for. Its not for a different OS version, it's just for those versions. None of the versions on that page are 10.6.8 so therefore you need to look elsewhere, at even older instructions.

It must be possible to do it because the $15 guys did it. To be honest I'm feeling crummy right now so I didn't look but zomg I had to say something. Without IOAHCIBlockStorage.kext your system won't boot so you want to be very very very careful when playing with it. This is why the first step is to make a backup of the important bit in the kext. Worst case you can boot into a different OS and remove the broken bit, rename the backup to the regular executable's name, reboot, and you're probably going to be in fairly good shape. Probably.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:07 pm 
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@MB:

Homeslice; I used the Chameleon data posted in the FAQ for revising 10.6.8 . . . for the 10.6.8 install . . . . And, so far, with the list partially done, the system has logged out and rebooted without an issue . . . .

The question is why is Terminal, operating in the admin account, not accepting the "kextcache" command? with the posted error code "/ is not root"?

eep


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:37 am 
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este.el.paz wrote:

The question is why is Terminal, operating in the admin account, not accepting the "kextcache" command? with the posted error code "/ is not root"?

eep


Here it is again, logged into admin account, console . . . with "su" password accepted . . . still not "root"???? :upset: :bonk: :whip: :snail:

Code:
$ su
Password:
sh-3.2#  kextcache -system-prelinked-kernel
Can't create kext cache under / - owner not root.
sh-3.2#


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:22 pm 
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Sorry, I was pretty damn sick yesterday and now I'm in fever mode so even less makes sense to me know.

I would guess kextcache works different in 10.6.8 than later OSes and you can probably skip it. As I recall if you sudo touch /System/Library/Extensions (I think that's the path? The one that contains all the .kext files, or at least the one you're modifying) it will force kextcache to rebuild it on the next boot. You can startup in verbose mode if you want to eyeball it but I suppose if you're not regularly starting up in verbose it'll all look the same.

In later OSes they get downright obstinate about rebuilding caches but 10.6 is almost identical to 10.5 (except for all the bugs that got fixed) and that's how it works in 10.5.

Okay, crawling back under the covers.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:11 am 
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@MB:

Appreciate the effort through the illness . . . have you tried massive doses of vit C &/or chicken soup? I would also suggest Chinese herbs, but then I would have to charge you for a diagnosis/prognosis . . . . :coffee: :badteeth: :fishsmack:

So, OK, forge ahead with the commands?? Something that I might have tried over on the linux side where I am used to nuke n paving as the solution to my screw-ups on the console . . . but OSX is . . . seemingly more delicate . . . . I briefly had the idea to try the next command, but then hesitated on it . . . . So far nothing has been broken . . . one of those nothing venture, nothing gained places . . . .

I'll give it a try later today . . . interesting how the Github/Anonymous commands just ran through . . . . I was rifling around on the open web looking to see if there is anything that needs to be done in 10.9.5 to "run TRIM" or elicit the TRIM behaviors, but it seems like it "just happens"???? If it says support is "Yes!!!" . . . the behavior is "trimming"?? and/or allowing "cleaning" to take place . . . ???


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:39 pm 
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Code:
$ sudo kextcache -system-caches
Can't create kext cache under / - owner not root.
Can't create kext cache under / - owner not root.
Can't create kext cache under / - owner not root.
Can't create kext cache under / - owner not root.
Can't create kext cache under / - owner not root.
eeps-MacBook-Pro:~ eep$


Machine didn't seem to be fooled by running through the commands . . . the "/" owner is not a roots kinda guy . . . . Machine has been fully shut down several times since doing the "enable user as root" adjustment has been made . . . .

Don't know if this is a "multi-boot" problem, since the 10.9.5 partition has a "root" that is different . . . but, counter to that idea is that booting into single user it boots into the first partition which is this 10.6.8 system . . . it should be recognizing owner as root????

This is the series of commands to run posted on the Chameleon site for 10.6.8:

Code:
HOW TO: enabling Trim manually in OSX 10.6.8

Copy and paste the code snippets through the terminal window (Applications->Utilities->terminal).

Backup the file we're patching
"sudo cp /System/Library/Extensions/IOAHCIFamily.kext/Contents/PlugIns/IOAHCIBlockStorage.kext/Contents/MacOS/IOAHCIBlockStorage /System/Library/Extensions/IOAHCIFamily.kext/Contents/PlugIns/IOAHCIBlockStorage.kext/Contents/MacOS/IOAHCIBlockStorage.backup"

Patch the file to enable TRIM support for any SSDs

"sudo perl -pi -e 's|(\x52\x6F\x74\x61\x74\x69\x6F\x6E\x61\x6C\x00{1,20})[^\x00]{9}(\x00{1,20}\x51)|$1\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00$2|sg' /System/Library/Extensions/IOAHCIFamily.kext/Contents/PlugIns/IOAHCIBlockStorage.kext/Contents/MacOS/IOAHCIBlockStorage"

flush the kext caches

"sudo kextcache -system-prelinked-kernel"

"sudo kextcache -system-caches"

Now reboot your system and verify that TRIM is enabled through the System Information.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:19 pm 
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If you're following directions for 10.6.8 and you're running 10.6.8 and the only problem you're experiencing is "Can't create kext cache under / - owner not root" I'd take the path of least resistance: Ignore it.

Nothing bad is likely to happen. Perhaps your computer will take slightly longer to boot the next time if it detects the kextcache needs to be updated. The problem may be that / doesn't have ownership "root" and group "admin". Anyway, I'm not worried.

When you reboot does the drive show TRIM enabled? If so, you're done.

- Anonymous


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:29 pm 
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Anonymous wrote:
If you're following directions for 10.6.8 and you're running 10.6.8 and the only problem you're experiencing is "Can't create kext cache under / - owner not root" I'd take the path of least resistance: Ignore it.
Nothing bad is likely to happen. Perhaps your computer will take slightly longer to boot the next time if it detects the kextcache needs to be updated. The problem may be that / doesn't have ownership "root" and group "admin". Anyway, I'm not worried.
When you reboot does the drive show TRIM enabled? If so, you're done.
- Anonymous


@Anonymous:

Thanks for the post back, well, I've sort of come to the same "conclusion" . . . choosing to be, "not worried" . . . due to being ignerint of the consequences of neglect and/or general cheapness . . . . But, yep, following the instructions for 10.6.8 . . . IN 10.6.8 and after these error/failures . . . TRIM shows on last check to be "not supported" . . . . Again, looks like 10.6 partition is perhaps 80 GB out of the "500" . . . isn't generally used too much, just have some old Apps like "Pacifist" that somebody on the Apple Discussion groups recommended as needed to do something with something . . . and a bunch of writing . . . so it's like an "ext HD" . . . but, "internal" and some of it I can open in 10.9, which does have TRIM support enabled via commands.

Perhaps somewhat interesting is that MB was seeming to say that if the "perl" command went through on 10.6 that the system wouldn't boot at all . . . but it did seem that after trying these commands for 10.6 several times, that fail on the "kext caches" line . . . the system still seems to boot OK . . . ????? So, rather than spend $15 and/or more time trying to activate TRIM for 10.6 . . . I'm choosing to be "not worried" . . . like the olde "What me worry?"

The plan is to find out whether Gecko or Ubuntu MATE is more TRIM friendly . . . like simple "trimforce enable" speed commands to get it going . . . versus more complicated, etc . . . try to get TRIM going for that last part of the three partitions that have been set up. But, if there was a request for "please educate me on the care and feeding of the SSD" . . . from what MB said, "the SSD doesn't care how you have the disk partitioned, it can move data anywhere in the disk . . . that's why you need TRIM enabled in all of the OSs you have installed . . . ." [words to that effect]

Why then doesn't TRIM enabling in one OS allow TRIMming to go on throughout the entire disk as well?? TRIM seems to stop at the border of the partition(s) . . . but data can be passed around to anyplace on the whole disk . . . passing between OSX and linux formatting . . . as the SSD sees fit??? Please inform me . . . . :confused:


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:41 pm 
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TRIM isn't a drive specific flag because the operating system handles the commands sent to the drive. That means the OS has to properly support it, and if it doesn't, even if the drive is TRIM capable, it won't be TRIM enabled in that OS.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:34 pm 
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@ST:

OK, that part of it makes sense . . . the OS controls what happens within the partition as is normal in the HDD realms . . . and is either "enabled" or not in those volumes . . . . But, how does this relate to how the SSD moves stuff across partition "boundaries" . . . ? Possibly this question is "moot" if the primary OS is 10.9 . . . and TRIM is "supported" . . . and likely will be U-MATE in the second largest partition, with second most frequent use . . . seems like 18.04 is TRIM savy . . . and so TRIM will be enabled in the largest areas of the SSD for the most part . . .

Is it a **fatal** error to let the 10.6 partition fend for itself . . . filling up slowly until the life is snuffed out of it w/o TRIM support?? Or, would the SSD be using the 10.6 partition as the trash can for the whole disk . . . and if I don't boot that partition and get TRIM support for 10.6 the SSD will be rendered into a swampy slow moving mess, even if TRIM is in effect in 10.9 && the potential 3rd linux OS???


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:21 pm 
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este.el.paz wrote:
@ST:

OK, that part of it makes sense . . . the OS controls what happens within the partition as is normal in the HDD realms . . . and is either "enabled" or not in those volumes . . . . But, how does this relate to how the SSD moves stuff across partition "boundaries" . . . ? Possibly this question is "moot" if the primary OS is 10.9 . . . and TRIM is "supported" . . . and likely will be U-MATE in the second largest partition, with second most frequent use . . . seems like 18.04 is TRIM savy . . . and so TRIM will be enabled in the largest areas of the SSD for the most part . . .

Is it a **fatal** error to let the 10.6 partition fend for itself . . . filling up slowly until the life is snuffed out of it w/o TRIM support?? Or, would the SSD be using the 10.6 partition as the trash can for the whole disk . . . and if I don't boot that partition and get TRIM support for 10.6 the SSD will be rendered into a swampy slow moving mess, even if TRIM is in effect in 10.9 && the potential 3rd linux OS???


TRIM is an SATA/NVMe command. The OS sends out the command, and what the drive itself does is wipe any cells that are labeled as erasable. For some cells this is simply erase and forget about it as no live data still resides on it. For other cells, a copy of the live data to an unused (zeroed) cell is performed and then the original cell is zeroed out. This is done at the drive controller level. The OS knows nowthing about the individual cells. That's handled by the controller and the drive's table of contents (ToC). TRIM is essentially a background task as far as the OS is concerned and is typically timed for when there is little to no drive activity going on.

This article is old, but has a relatively easy to understand explanation of TRIM and its brethren, Durawrite (SandForce SSDs such as those from OWC) and other garbage collection routines. It should help you understand it better. But as to your partition question, TRIM will only work on the currently mounted partitions on an SSD. The OS tells the drive what files/locations are invalid and TRIM handles the rest. Since different OSes handle and mount their partitions differently, TRIM will only work on the partition(s) actively in use at the time. In the case of both partitions being OS X and thus mounted at bootup, TRIM will work on both partitions when booted in to 10.9, and neither when booted into 10.6.8 if TRIM hasn't been properly enabled.

As noted previously, it would probably just be best to shell out the $15 for the Trim Enabler app and go that route just for ease of use and peace of mind. Once you buy it, it's yours to keep and use, and since it works on both operating systems and knows which one is booted (assuming it's installed on both partitions properly), it would be the best all in one solution for you.

As to your kextcache issue, grab a utility like TinkerTool System to nuke the kext cache (called Startup Driver Cache in TinkerTool System). Requires the free Tinkertool base app to be installed as well. Base app is free, TInkertool System is paid. As a bonus, TinkerTool System can repair system permissions and create external and/or USB flash drive installers from downloaded OS X Installation apps from the app store. Just make sure that you grab the proper version for your OS. For you this is going to be TinkerTool System 2. Sadly they discontinued licenses for it, but you might try contacting them to see if they can arrange something for you since both of your OSes fall in the support venue for TTS2. I can't believe they'd turn down more money. TTS2 is "no longer in development", but it doesn't need to be since its associated supported OSes are also no longer being developed and are thus in their "final" states.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:38 am 
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@ST:

Thanks for the further thoughts, appreciate that and the advice for buying the utility/apps . . . . seems like maybe the first paragraph was a quote from somewhere, since you said, "This article is old . . ."??? Anyway, gives me the idea . . . my "take home" message is the . . . "since both systems are OSX they will be mounted at boot and trim will work on both if booted in 10.9.5, but neither if booted in 10.6 . . . ."

Primary system is 10.9 which is TRIM supportive . . . if something kicks in at some point and the 10.6 side fails to boot, at that point I'll either wipe it, or find the kext crusher app . . . I've been using Onyx for the maintenance of various aspects, or if things get wonky, applejack is installed from single user . . . . Kicking the can down the road; spent last evening looking around at the linux take on the TRIM subject . . . seems like it's either "handled" or running the basic command of [probably sudo] "fstrim" . . . . Likely that would NOT extend over to the OSX's . . . but, might, as linux generally "sees" OSX, but OSX claims not to see other systems . . . . I'll post back if there is any "news of fresh disaster . . . ." :coffee:

eep


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