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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:00 pm 
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Doesn't seem like there is too much activity in the "G" sub-forum here, but, as it is that one of my "missions" these days is trying to support PPC development in linux, I'd like to keep some PPC machine(s) going for as long as possible. This ST with the hotted up cpu running 1.2 Ghz w/ max'd RAM 2 GB . . . is just about "functional" in today's internet environment; but, seems like my 933MHz/646MB RAM iBook is just about beyond the demands imposed upon its system.

So, just for sh*ts & giggles, if I was to look at the places that re-sell used PowrMacs . . . is there one or so models that were or are considered "the best" in terms of function and use of electricity . . . "bang for buck"??? I'm thinking G4 because my impression is that the G5's were "over-clocked" in many aspects . . . and might as well go to MacPro at that point.

Were the "end" of the G4 series, the "best" or, somewhere before that there was a series that hit the spread on good motherboard, cpu speed and more RAM, such that it could be a little better at doing the "normal" internet stuff . . . but, now, for very cheap???? Obviously I could search that site that shows all the mac models, but I'm looking for human opinion. Or, actually the G5 line was the greatest of all time? Seems like the linux guys have a harder time getting ubuntu to run on the G5 for some reason????

Thanks as usual,

e..


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 5:23 pm 
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Well, the Mars rover Curiosity uses a special G3! :D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerPC

The last G4s, the MDD or Wind Tunnel/Quad Nostril Model was the fastest G4 Powermacs, but all 3 of mine died prematurely, they were built on Apple's belief that cold rises & heat sinks. :P

In my limited Linux experience G5s don't really have the level of support as the G4s d0, & G5s certainly had their problems, you'd likely be best with a 2005/2.3 GHz model...

http://www.macintouch.com/reliability/pmg5.html

On the G4s, the older & slower, the more reliable, I think after the Quicksilver 2002 model they really took a dive.

Might find a free or cheap eMac/1.42 GHz.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 5:46 pm 
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The G4 Mac Minis may have tied with the "Sawtooth" G4s as the most reliable. I ran my own Sawtooth that I bought new in 1999 for 15 years, and when I worked with them, I never had a G4 Mac Mini die. Some of the eMacs were notoriously unreliable, but some of the production runs didn't have any problems at all. I had a fleet of about eight of them for many years, and only one ever died, but I selected carefully.

These days all of these will be getting old enough that I would expect reliability to be an issue no matter how well made they were: solder traces crack, capacitors and heatsink compound dry out, dust collects, thermal cycles cause wear-and-tear, fans fail, dust collects, etc...

As for the G5s, avoid water-cooled G5s. The last of the air-cooled G5s might be your best bet there, but it seems like there's something that kills G5 motherboards at about ten years old. The systems just get really crash prone until they're finally unusable. Anecdotally I have the impression that sometimes reflowing the motherboards helps stave off death a little bit, but I don't know if that's really true or if it is which circuits are cracking.

The G5 iMacs were not great. They had three problems: 1) lots of them had bad capacitors in both the power supplies and motherboards, 2) they had built-in screens so you had more parts that could fail (same as the eMacs in this respect, but fortunately LCDs are a bit more reliable on average than CRTs), and 3) their fans weren't very good. Some of them had really awful fans that made sound at just the wrong frequency to drive any human with normal hearing insane. Not all had this problem. All of the G5 iMacs I've ever touched are now dead, and I had at least four dead ones stashed in my closet for quite a while to use for parts to keep another one alive. It wasn't enough.

- Anonymous


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:24 pm 
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The last of the air-cooled G5s might be your best bet there, but it seems like there's something that kills G5 motherboards at about ten years old. The systems just get really crash prone until they're finally unusable. Anecdotally I have the impression that sometimes reflowing the motherboards helps stave off death a little bit, but I don't know if that's really true or if it is which circuits are cracking.

Yep, the mandated lead-free solder issue. Especially around the U3 chip & the inner RAM slots, Heat gun fixes many of them.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:41 pm 
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Thanks gents, appreciate the thoughts . . . yeah obviously the components have their "normal" lifespan . . . . My G4 iMac ran for about 13 years, then I tried to flog it on, but seems like mobo was frying RAM . . . it's still sitting on my desk. Got a kick out of the "iLamp" design . . . but, now I like the PowerMac's ease of entry to replace stuff . . . . Like to get a little more speed . . . anyway, thanks . . . we'll see what happens later this year. For home use a slightly faster G4 would be fine enough.

e...


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:17 pm 
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G4s...

https://www.powermax.com/productcategor ... s-g4-tower

G5s...

https://www.powermax.com/productcategor ... owermac-g5

I wonder if an Intel Mac Pro running Linux either in 10.6 in PPC emulation, or in Virtual machine might be a better investment?

https://www.powermax.com/productcategor ... cs-mac-pro

I could benchmark that on my Mac Pro if you gave me some Linux Benchmarking links :)


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:55 pm 
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BDAqua wrote:
G4s...

https://www.powermax.com/productcategor ... s-g4-tower

G5s...

https://www.powermax.com/productcategor ... owermac-g5

I wonder if an Intel Mac Pro running Linux either in 10.6 in PPC emulation, or in Virtual machine might be a better investment?

https://www.powermax.com/productcategor ... cs-mac-pro

I could benchmark that on my Mac Pro if you gave me some Linux Benchmarking links :)


Hmmm, thanks for the links again . . . the prices from Mirrored Door and 1st Gen mac Pro aren't that different . . . hmmm . . . why have just one when you could have four for the price of a new macbook air?? "PPC emulation"??? Don't know what that is . . . also don't know what "Linux Benchmarking links" are either . . . work tomorrow . . . but if I can find some Linux Benchmarks . . . I'll let you know . . . .

e...


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:22 pm 
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On IntelMacs running 10.6.8 or below, you can install the optional Rosetta, which allows you to run most PPC Apps on Intel chips…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIzZOhZPpaU

Or you could double/triple/quadruple emulate with OSX 10.6.8 or less>iEmulator>Windows>VirtualBox>Linux

http://www.lifehack.org/articles/featur ... ndows.html

https://www.cygwin.com


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:38 pm 
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I have absolutely no way to ship it, but I might have a spare 867 MHz MDD G4 (would need to test it) and sending it to a good home would be a lot better than just recycling it or giving it to a friend to tear apart to turn in to jewelry. Where are you physically located?

- Anonymous


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 7:06 am 
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BDAqua wrote:
On IntelMacs running 10.6.8 or below, you can install the optional Rosetta, which allows you to run most PPC Apps on Intel chips…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIzZOhZPpaU

Or you could double/triple/quadruple emulate with OSX 10.6.8 or less>iEmulator>Windows>VirtualBox>Linux

http://www.lifehack.org/articles/featur ... ndows.html

https://www.cygwin.com


@BD:

I was "awake" much of the night, for reasons that shall go unmentioned, thinking that the "PPC emulation" had something to do with 10.6.8 being the "last OS that could run Classic"??? . . . forgot about Rosetta. I have started to try out VB about a year back, pretty complicated at the time . . . so, could be a possibility, but there is the whole using the actual PPC hardware, and flogging it forward, "damn the torpedoes of modern technology, etc" . . . that emulation doesn't exactly provide . . . .

Also thinking about those PowerMax PPC MDD units, as not being too much different price wise than the MacPro's; but compared to what I saw when we were shopping for used parts on eBay there is a fairly large increase . . . is PowerMax testing their units and/or doing stuff to them . . . did they buy them on eBay for less and then are kicking up the price . . . in other words they take the risk of buying from eBay, test them and market them . . . or, no difference--it's always a risk buying old/used units??

@anonymous:

Thanks for the thought, I'm in LA/westside not too far from LAX . . . I'll keep it in mind, perhaps might be fun to bring it back to life like I did with my ST . . . . Has to be amusing . . . but, no worries, could be a "bridge too far."

e..


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 7:39 am 
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I believe PowerMax units are Trade-ins on new units & all are tested.

Far better than eBay methinks…
Quote:
Our Guarantee:

Each used Mac comes with a 120-day warranty, plus these additional benefits:

First, if it arrives and isn't working as it should ("DOA" is definied as within 72 hours of receipt), we'll send you a return shipping label and replace it at our expense (some conditions may apply). Second, if at any time during the first 60 days after the purchase of a pre-owned Mac you wish to send it back for any reason, we'll credit you the current sale price for the item toward the purchase of anything else we sell (less a $50 deductible. Limit one exchange per customer). Note that warranty covers repair and return only after the DOA period. Replacement within 60 days is only guaranteed with the $50 deductible.

We also offer extended warranty packages which will increase the warranty on your used Mac to either six months or one year!


https://www.powermax.com/product/pow-t52617

https://www.powermax.com/page/used-mac-faq


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 8:02 am 
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@BD:

Thanks for that, you have mentioned them in the past as being a good source . . . what are your thoughts on their "1 year warranty package"??? I'd tend to think that for less than $1000 purchase maybe the $99/1 year is not "worth it"??? Like if it lasts for 120 days it will ***probably*** last for a year?

I'll have to spend some time looking at their deals . . . appreciate it, once again . . . .

e..


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 8:36 am 
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Tough call on the 1 year warranty, I'd have to see the exact model to make a reasoned guess. :)


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 8:44 am 
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Exactly . . . well, when I get closer to pulling the trigger I'll jangle your chain on it . . . . :fishsmack:

e..


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 8:53 am 
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:coffee:


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 8:42 pm 
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I suspect there's probably no single part of a G4 tower that you couldn't replace for at most $100.

Last year I bought a second generation Mac Pro off eBay for a few hundred dollars and I couldn't be happier aside from my power bill. I was, however, very careful about whom I bought it from.

I'd be glad to give you the old G4, but I'm in Oregon and don't plan to be in California for quite a long time, let alone near LA. If, however, you know someone in Oregon who is going to LA sometime in the next several months, I could hand it off to them. Like everyone else in Oregon, I'm in the Willamette Valley.

- Anonymous


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 6:34 am 
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Anonymous wrote:
I suspect there's probably no single part of a G4 tower that you couldn't replace for at most $100.
Last year I bought a second generation Mac Pro off eBay for a few hundred dollars and I couldn't be happier aside from my power bill. I was, however, very careful about whom I bought it from.
I'd be glad to give you the old G4, but I'm in Oregon and don't plan to be in California for quite a long time, let alone near LA. If, however, you know someone in Oregon who is going to LA sometime in the next several months, I could hand it off to them. Like everyone else in Oregon, I'm in the Willamette Valley.
- Anonymous


@anonymous:

Appreciate the thought; I do know a couple people in Oregon, but I think that they aren't headed to LA any time soon. But, yeah, I have "pick-your-part"-ed my ST back into service on the cheap . . . and it seems to be "easy" on the power bill as well--which is important to me. I have seen some posts either here or from links posted here that were saying that the G4's are "easy on the gas" . . . so that might make a difference to whether I go for late gen G4 or mid-pack Mac Pro for the next home squeeze. If it wasn't for the T4F getting fits of the spinning beachball with heavy resource web sites the ST would be perfectly fine . . . .

We'll see what "looks good" coming up . . . the nice thing about the towers is the side panel easy access to the innards. Still have yet to delve deeply into the iMac . . . nothing in there I need as I think the mobo is a-toasted . . . too "difficult." I'll post back later on when I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on it . . . first part of the year is filled with heavy bills . . . . :whip:

e...


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 9:59 pm 
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este.el.paz wrote:
first part of the year is filled with heavy bills.

swap the pelicans for finches to reduce those big bills :badteeth:


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 7:12 am 
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este.el.paz wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
I suspect there's probably no single part of a G4 tower that you couldn't replace for at most $100.
Last year I bought a second generation Mac Pro off eBay for a few hundred dollars and I couldn't be happier aside from my power bill. I was, however, very careful about whom I bought it from.
I'd be glad to give you the old G4, but I'm in Oregon and don't plan to be in California for quite a long time, let alone near LA. If, however, you know someone in Oregon who is going to LA sometime in the next several months, I could hand it off to them. Like everyone else in Oregon, I'm in the Willamette Valley.
- Anonymous


@anonymous:

Appreciate the thought; I do know a couple people in Oregon, but I think that they aren't headed to LA any time soon. But, yeah, I have "pick-your-part"-ed my ST back into service on the cheap . . . and it seems to be "easy" on the power bill as well--which is important to me. I have seen some posts either here or from links posted here that were saying that the G4's are "easy on the gas" . . . so that might make a difference to whether I go for late gen G4 or mid-pack Mac Pro for the next home squeeze. If it wasn't for the T4F getting fits of the spinning beachball with heavy resource web sites the ST would be perfectly fine . . . .

We'll see what "looks good" coming up . . . the nice thing about the towers is the side panel easy access to the innards. Still have yet to delve deeply into the iMac . . . nothing in there I need as I think the mobo is a-toasted . . . too "difficult." I'll post back later on when I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on it . . . first part of the year is filled with heavy bills . . . . :whip:

e...


AFAIK all Mac Pros sport CPUs with SpeedStep, meaning they'd suck less juice than your typical G4 when not under load.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 8:13 am 
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Squishy Tia wrote:

AFAIK all Mac Pros sport CPUs with SpeedStep, meaning they'd suck less juice than your typical G4 when not under load.


@ST:

Thanks for the insight on the power consumption . . . perhaps key point is "when not under load"????? How about when they are under load, still less juice used by MP over a generic G4?

@roam:

OK, selecting "finches" . . . pelicans have been set free . . . . :classic-eek:

e..


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 10:00 am 
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Xeon E7480 2.66 GHZ = 130 Watts (per core?)

PPC 750 G5 1.8 Ghz = 42 Watts

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_C ... on_figures


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 3:57 pm 
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@BD:

All the data one could ever want to know about cpu power consumption, although the motorola section was fairly limited . . . .

I'm kind of mulling over the "2.3GHz" G4 that you linked to as a possibility . . . would keep it in my "PPC" request list, but allow for RAM upgrade . . . just having general "age" going against it, and of course OSX side is also . . . "not supported" . . . . But, over on linux that would possibly give me enough speed to be "current" for awhile longer . . . .

e...


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 4:13 pm 
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Quote:
I'm kind of mulling over the "2.3GHz" G4 that you linked to as a possibility

I'm kind of mulling over the "2.3GHz" G5 that you linked to as a possibility. ;)

PCIe might be an advantage also.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 6:00 pm 
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Oh . . . G5 . . . oh . . . I thought that was a G4 . . . oh . . . I guess I have to revise my understanding . . . oh my . . . .


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:06 pm 
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My Mac Pro is definitely much more expensive to run run than my old G4. I estimate it adds $10-$15 month to my power bill above what the G4 cost. An Intel Mac Mini would be ideal; they're much more power efficient, the all-aluminum models are reasonably quick with enough RAM and a good SSD, and they probably use about the same amount of power (or less) as a G4. They're just more expensive to buy.

- Anonymous


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