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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2016 6:53 am 
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Anonymous wrote:
They're both also fairly easy to work on: if you have small hands and a careful touch the Mac Mini is pretty easy once you kind of get used to it, but the first couple times you take it apart be very careful not to tear out various wires, since it's really quite difficult to repair them when you do.

seconded! i did just this my first time with the blower connector, it was very delicate. we ended up having to order a new blower


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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2016 7:41 am 
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mc68k wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
They're both also fairly easy to work on: if you have small hands and a careful touch the Mac Mini is pretty easy once you kind of get used to it, but the first couple times you take it apart be very careful not to tear out various wires, since it's really quite difficult to repair them when you do.

seconded! i did just this my first time with the blower connector, it was very delicate. we ended up having to order a new blower


@mc68k:

Appreciate the comments, thanks. So, based on cost to run and buy, seems like it's worth a look to check out the various Mini iterations, which would probably do just fine for my "mission" in the upcoming year(s).

But, don't know if starting a new thread is what I would need to get some thoughts on PC desktops that could be comparable to the Mini, on spec of platform components and cost to run vis power usage?? I've kicked around enough in Linux realm that I could do my home computer tasks using 64bit LM or Ubuntu xx . . . and/or using the tonymac86x web site, figure out how to hack it to run OSX 10.9 . . . .

I just don't have any experience with buying and running PC machine to be able to know the "ups and downs" of the PC v Apple arguments. Question is, would that get me into a "better" quality machine . . . easier to work on . . . and easy on power consumption--for the same or less money than a Mini? Even considering that the Mini would likely be used item, to get back to when the RAM could be changed by the "homeowner"????

So, I get that for price point it's hard to compare "apples to apples" straight up, but, worth it to look at PC? Or, just stick with Apple, it's not a bad computer for the money going with the Mini? I had more or less decided I was going to get a Mac Pro for easy access to innards, but, seems like many of them are like running three 100 w lightbulbs when maxed out, or 1 when idling . . . makes it I think perhaps too 'spensive to have running while trying to think a thought and write it out. :fishsmack:


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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2016 5:34 pm 
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You could always get a little Intel NUC box and put Linux on it. Depending on which one you get it can roughly be comparable to a Mini in a smaller/as-small form factor.

I wouldn't opt for the 6th generation units since Microsoft is currently having a temper tantrum about supporting Windows 7 on them (always good to have options), because Windows 10 adoption rates have lagged behind their ridiculous expectations. 5th generation gets you almost all the way there in terms of CPU & GPU support, and they're DDR3 which is a plus in the pocket book.

Mac vs. PC is kind of a moot point now since they're both x86 systems running on the exact same physical hardware (hence why OSx86 is possible). If you want to run OSX, buy a Mac. If you don't mind running Linux or Windows then get a PC. Macs can still run Linux and Windows but the reverse is a PITA for a PC.


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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2016 5:48 pm 
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@MB:

Thanks so much for the reply . . . well, I do find OSX to be a "good" operating system . . . so being able to have access to it is generally in mind . . . . Linux is "fun" for something to mess around with, but, generally a little rough around the edges . . . sometimes in unexpected places . . . . But, hard to avoid notice the large price differentials on what, as you say, is basically the same hardware . . . . So, we'll see what turns up when I get closer to pull the trigger . . . .

e.


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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 11:40 am 
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Geep, I'mmm baaaaaaccckkkkkkk . . . and I'm so confused . . . . Spent a few minutes looking at Powermax & OWC offerings for Mac Mini's today . . . Powermx seemed to have mostly "C2D" processor units . . . for right in the low-end new model price range . . . $500 . . . and OWC had some "late 2012" i7 & i5 units, none of them had internal Op drive . . . and also really no cheaper than the "high-end" new . . . seems like the resellers are into this notion than the 2012 Mini is "better" than the 2014, so they are asking $1000 for them . . . ????

So that brings me back to the "Kill-a-Watt" thread and "limnos's" comments about "spending more to buy" and flipping that over to the Mini v MP argument to consider potential benefits of the lower energy using Mac Mini, than perhaps the available used Mac Pro . . . but getting "less" hardware in the process??? and then back into the PITA to work on issues that were involved with my olde iMac.

I may have to look back into the MP options, and go with the old Detroit mantra, "a V8 uses less gas because it can be driven understressed" . . . . Try to find the MP that "idles" just over the Mac Mini "85 W" max, and have easier access to components . . . and suffer the probable increase in power bill expense . . . for potentially less or even money and getting "the full kit" on Superdrive and so forth . . . .

Tasks will be mainly word processing, perhaps some photo editing, FB, Twitr junk posts . . . all I need right now is that it be able to run 10.9. Would '09 MPro work for dat or move it up to as close to the 2012 mark as possible? :bonk:

I'll have to read thru this thread again to see if MP never changed to soldered RAM like the other models . . .??
e..


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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 12:05 pm 
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Tje 2009 MPs will run any OSX from 10.5.8 to current 10.11.5

http://www.everymac.com/systems/by_year ... -2009.html

No Mac Pro Towers have soldered in RAM. :)

http://www.macofalltrades.com/Refurbish ... -s/298.htm

The cheap, ($299), MPs only run 10.7.5 as highest without some hacks…

http://www.macofalltrades.com/Mac-Pro-2 ... c-e07a.htm


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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 4:05 pm 
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BDAqua wrote:
Tje 2009 MPs will run any OSX from 10.5.8 to current 10.11.5

http://www.everymac.com/systems/by_year ... -2009.html

No Mac Pro Towers have soldered in RAM. :)

http://www.macofalltrades.com/Refurbish ... -s/298.htm

The cheap, ($299), MPs only run 10.7.5 as highest without some hacks…

http://www.macofalltrades.com/Mac-Pro-2 ... c-e07a.htm


@BD:

Many thanks for your responses . . . I'll look through them . . . it's kind of a pain that Mac only offers a "budget" line in compression form, rather than tower format . . . and then, sort of the "illusion" of "budget" . . . in that it's sort of "stripped" . . . . OR going the "top of the line" max power . . . max power consumption . . . as the "other" "option" . . . .

e..


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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 5:31 pm 
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Many have wished for a Mini Tower, but Apple needs a hearing aid…

http://www.apple.com/mac-pro/specs/


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PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2016 9:57 am 
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BDAqua wrote:
Many have wished for a Mini Tower, but Apple needs a hearing aid…

http://www.apple.com/mac-pro/specs/


Yuck, yuck . . . mild understatement about the hearing aid . . . it's a "one way" conversation. Took a look at the Mac of all trades site . . . looks like plenty of options for semi-reasonable prices . . . probably 4 core would be plenty of zip for my needs . . . I like the fact that one of them shows 8 GB RAM, "upgradeable to 64 GB" . . . looks like lots of "head room" there . . . . Not quite ready to pull the trigger, but just about . . . TFF is "not responding" more often than not . . . .

e..

[Edit: Looking back to the "power use" link there wasn't anything per se on "3.2 GHz" . . . but is seems like the 2010 and earlier "Nehalem" processors used both more juice at idle, as well as at "max throttle" . . . perhaps lending credence to the "newer is better" albeit a little more expensive concept????]


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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2016 11:56 pm 
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The C2D Minis are no slouches, they're substantially better than the couple models that followed it (before Intel finally realized they should care about integrated video), and infinitely better than the current ones (which use soldered on RAM). I have a 2.66 2010, the last Mini with an internal optical drive, and it works fine. I wish it had USB 3.0 but that's about it for the wish list.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 1:41 pm 
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So finally I think I'm going to pull the trigger for the "big gun" for the home unit, "swiss army knife" does it all . . . should last me awhile. The linked company shows the MP with 4 GB RAM . . . which I'm thinking is probably under-RAMed for the 10.9 system it has installed . . . ? They show they could add "8 GB" RAM for $78 . . . so since it has 2 -- 2GB sticks for the 4, I'm assuming they will just be adding 2 more 2 GB sticks, for which the "$78" seems "high"??? Or would they put a fresh 4 sticks of 2GB each to make the 8?? which could be somewhat closer to "reasonable" if the RAM they use is "quality"???

I searched Crucial and they only showed SSD's for the MP, and I sent a chat and the guy said, "They use slower RAM in that configuration than is used now, so we don't carry it." Looking at OWC . . . they seem to offer a huge range of RAM, very "high end" and then just "regular" . . . so **possibly** Macof trades could be installing very good RAM, or they could be charging "labor" to install it and using average RAM???

Newegg, showed one 8GB stick for $47+ dollars . . . seems less than the "$78"??? For general "home" use, does it "matter" whether the computer has "axiom" RAM . . . or some kind of "Turbo Axiom" . . . OR, just more RAM . . . generic . . . is fine?? Thinking I can always upgrade the RAM at any point . . . question is whether leaving in the present "4 GB" in two 2GB sticks, and then toss in an 8?? Or, take out the old 4 and put in the new 8?? Seems like from that linked Kingston page, less sticks is "better" for power usage?

e..


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 4:09 pm 
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Which exact Mac Pro is it, that does seem expensive.

Yes fewer sticks is less power used.

Chose the model here & check Memory prices…

https://eshop.macsales.com/MyOWC/Models.cfm


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 4:25 pm 
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It's the one . . . you know . . . that was discussed . . . via pm . . . ***that**** one . . . . :badteeth:

I'll check the link in a bit . . . .
e..


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 4:36 pm 
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If it's a 2012 MP, then GB =$48.75…

https://eshop.macsales.com/MyOWC/Upgrad ... ype=Memory

Meaning you could have 12 GB total if you wish.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 4:57 pm 
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BDAqua wrote:
If it's a 2012 MP, then GB =$48.75…

https://eshop.macsales.com/MyOWC/Upgrad ... ype=Memory

Meaning you could have 12 GB total if you wish.


BD:

***Possibly*** it's the '12 MP I'm talking about, possibly . . . but, is there supposed to be an "8" in front of the "GB"??? The link shows many variations of RAM options . . . . What about the questions about whether adding an "8" single to existing two "4" GB sticks? Is that verboten?

Also, is there any reason to spend more money on RAM, let's say for an 8GB stick . . . is there "premium" RAM and "low-test" RAM? And does that quality of RAM have effect on the performance of the computer? Or high-end RAM is best for constant use as let's say "server" . . . high or max cpu use??? Or, cheapest offering from say owc or newegg is fine???

e..


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:53 pm 
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Yes, you can add one stick, but we need to be more specific on the exact MP…

Mac Pro Nehalem (March 2009 and August 2010)
The Nehalem Mac Pros use DDR3-1066 (PC3-8500) ECC DIMMs (not FB-DIMMs), no large heatsinks, with temperature sensors. There are 4 memory sockets (2009 Quad-core 2.66GHz, 2.93GHz, 3.33 GHz and 2010 2.8GHz and 3.2GHz) or 8 memory sockets (2009 8-core 2.26, 2.66GHz, 2.93GHz and 2010 8-core 2.4GHz). They can implement dual channel or triple channel memory access modes. Fastest performance is using triple-channel mode, with three identical modules in sockets 1 through 3 and leaving socket 4 empty.

[edit]
Mac Pro Westmere (August 2010)
The Westmere 6-core, 8-core and 12-core Mac Pros use DDR3-1333 (PC3-10660) ECC DIMMs, no large heatsinks, with temperature sensors. Single processor (6 core 3.33 GHz) machines have 4 sockets, Dual Processor (8 and 12 core 2.66GHz and 2.93GHz) machines have 8 sockets.

The 2010 lineup actually has a mixture of Nehalem and Westmere motherboards, so you need to verify your individual machine.

http://guides.macrumors.com/Understanding_Intel_Mac_RAM


Note: If you install different sized DIMMs in your Mac Pro, follow the order in the table above. If the DIMM configuration you install doesn't provide optimized performance, the Memory Slot Utility should appear onscreen and recommend an improved configuration. To use the utility again, go to /System/Library/CoreServices/Memory Slot Utility.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205043


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 4:44 pm 
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Peeps:

So I finally went and did it, pulled the trigger on the "mid-2012 Mac Pro 3.2 GHz Quad-core" . . . and that is wending its way to me via ground ups. And, it is the 4 GB RAM running 10.9, so I'd like to upgrade to 8 GB . . . looking for the best way to go in terms of power use I was thinking that one stick of 8GB would give me what I want.

However, OWC doesn't seem to show single sticks of 8GB for this computer . . . it does show some options for what looks like "1066 MHz" and some for "1333 MHz" ?? as I think the only major difference between the choices . . . . Would the 1066 MHz be "better" on power consumption than the 1333? Would I be right in assuming that the 1333 is "faster" RAM than the 1066, but not so much faster as to make a difference? Etc, these kind of questions . . . .

e...


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:08 pm 
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Peeps:

"Death of a '00 PowerMac"??? I hadn't run the PM for a month or so, fired it up and did an update/upgrade of the linux side, there had been some problems with U-MATE no longer supporting PPC, so I added XFCE and was using that to add what also showed as MATE packages. The Frontier DSL internet was "slow" yesterday and it took awhile to download and install the packages. When it was finished I decided to run "dnetc" just to give it some "exercise" . . . and I went to do the dishes. When I came back the screen was frozen and no cursor movement, black flecks were scattered over the screen image . . . so I have no idea whether this was precipitated by high fan speeds, high temps, or what. MATE had busted previously so I assumed the upgrade "busted" the linux side, so I used the power button to shut down.

On reboot the screen was "black" and the display power button stayed orange, meaning to me that nothing was getting to "video" . . . I tried alt key on boot to see if the OSX partition would show, I tried selecting "X" or "M" from the boot menu to see if Yaboot was showing the data . . . none of that worked. Tried a number of cold boots yesterday, and today . . . no change on that front. Also tried tapping on the optical drive door, which used to get the op drive drawer to open . . . no dice. Only thing I haven't tried is to boot a usb drive, but not thinking that will change anything?

So, my first conclusion is that the video card is tot/dead? But, it also seems that the old/original keyboard that came with it, with the power button in it, also doesn't seem to shut the computer down. The machine power button "starts" the computer and the fan or the usual loudness begins . . . but nothing else is happening. I don't have the apple hardware test disk as this is/was a hand-me-down unit, but, any way to "figure it out"?? I was using this machine to carry on with the PPC files and folders that I transferred over from my iMac . . . I like having something PPC for that reason . . . don't know whether the problem extends beyond the video card, or whether simply getting a replacement would "fix" the problem?? I've upgraded the cpu to the 1.2GHz used unit from eBay, same with the op drive, and I've maxed the RAM to the 2 GB . . . bit of a snail on the internet, but as a "storage site" for the approx 16 years of PPC files and data . . . "priceless" . . . . Long live PPC . . . ??

e.e.p.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:24 am 
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The keyboards that were included with G5s didn't include a power button. The only one I remember from back then with a power button was the iMac USB keyboard. The G4 keyboard included with my QuickSilver didn't include a power button, which was substantially later than the iMac keyboards I'm talking about.

I would try pulling the power cord, trying to turn it on to discharge the system, open it up and reseat the RAM & any PCI-X/PCIe video cards (pop them out, reinstall), then put it back together, plug it in, and see what happens. May as well power cycle the monitor too. I've seen monitors sent into sleep mode by the system that refused to wake up unless they were sent a wake signal from the system, but immediately woke up after power cycling.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:12 am 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
The keyboards that were included with G5s didn't include a power button. The only one I remember from back then with a power button was the iMac USB keyboard. The G4 keyboard included with my QuickSilver didn't include a power button, which was substantially later than the iMac keyboards I'm talking about.

I would try pulling the power cord, trying to turn it on to discharge the system, open it up and reseat the RAM & any PCI-X/PCIe video cards (pop them out, reinstall), then put it back together, plug it in, and see what happens. May as well power cycle the monitor too. I've seen monitors sent into sleep mode by the system that refused to wake up unless they were sent a wake signal from the system, but immediately woke up after power cycling.


@MB:

Thanks for the reply . . . . On the keyboard, '99 or '00 Powermac . . . should be OEM eqiupment; the keyboard power button worked to boot the computer via a very heavy usb cord, but then after the "crash" no longer worked . . . .

I'll try out your suggestions . . . prolly be a few days to find the time to dig it out from behind the newer MacPro tower . . . . As far as the display goes, it's plugged into the MP as well and has no problem on the MacPro side . . . just plain black on the PM side. And, I generally turn the display off at night . . . I'm not thinking that this is a display problem--all signs are pointing to the PowerMac . . . minimally video card . . . if not more . . . .

e.e.p


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:00 am 
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This is the keyboard that shipped with G4s:
Image

This is the keyboard that shipped with G5s:
Image

Aside from some packaging differences they're the same basic keyboard. No power button to be found.

Perhaps you have a third party keyboard? Some of those looked very similar to Apple keyboards and included a power button.

Here's that iMac keyboard:
Image


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:27 am 
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Looks like the iMac keyboard . . . is the one. My wife bought this from a graphic designer and possibly he gave her that keyboard . . . .

I was trying to remember if there is some way to get the op drive to open . . . the keyboard doesn't have an "eject" button . . . I tried to hold the left & right mouse buttons . . . tried a few other buttons . . . traditionally rapping on the door got it to open, but none of that was working. I'd be looking to see if I could boot a live session DVD or something.

Question is, what happened that suddenly would "un-seat RAM" or the video card . . . in such a total system way? Like, if the video card went out, then the rest of of the system would respond . . . but this seems to be catastrophic . . . across the board . . . like a circuit breaker popped and all the lights and plugs are "out" . . . except, apparently it does "power up" . . . to nothingness. :bonk:

e.e.ep


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:27 am 
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Corrosion/junk?

And then there's the Capacitor degredation.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:17 am 
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BDAqua wrote:
Corrosion/junk?

And then there's the Capacitor degredation.


Corrosian/junk should be somewhat "less" of a concern as computer is not ever let outside and sits on my door desktop surface . . . semi-clean . . . But, um, Capacitor degradation??? Is that something "peripheral," or part and parcel of mobo ???

I guess at a certain point there is "a bridge too far" . . . what about the little battery? That might be OEM and might have finally taken a dive?? Or "diving" into "degradation" of sorts, but might be a "cheaper" fix than an erstwhile "capacitor"??? :snail:

e.e.p


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:18 pm 
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Yes, could;d be the battery quite easily.

Might be time to replace the PRAM Battery, 5 years is close to their lifespan, far less if ever without AC power, & can cause strange startup problems...

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Newer%20 ... AA36VPRAM/  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroly ... tion_rules

http://www.murata.com/support/faqs/prod ... /char/0006


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