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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 4:10 pm 
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Folks:

Another question that could be a time-saver . . . somebody sent me an old G3 iBook to test Lubuntu PPC iso's on; but in trying to get it to "do stuff" it became clear that there are multiple issues . . . among others, it doesn't accept install disks, so it doesn't boot LiveDVD's. The fellow that sent it seems to be thinking that I screwed it up, and suggested "trying a new HD, that should fix it" . . . of course we are talking G3. The 10.3 system that Was on it would show up on the screen, but I don't think anything worked. I consider it to be junk; but today I had the thought that, as my 933 MHz G4 iBook with 646MB RAM isn't exactly zipping along, that I could think about either getting an SSD for it, or a larger regular HD . . . to get up in size from the 40 GB; and then take the old HD and try it in the G3 . . . .
Would that be "plug n play" and fairly easy to do? Or different HD plugs, too much effort, and/or wouldn't work?

I have no interest in buying parts for what I think is a junk computer, prob HD, optical drive, and any number of other problems are likely involved. But, I could blow some time switching the G4 HD to the G3 to test it out, if it is EASY. And, then I could either flip it back to the G4 or look at newer, bigger, or faster HD for the G4, might make it more use-able . . . .

Thanks again for the thoughts,

e...


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 8:58 pm 
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You don't say how old the G3 is, oldest ones used ATA2, later ones Ultra ATA, while the 1st G4 iBooks used Ultra ATA/100.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:50 pm 
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Yes, it should fit and if it works in one it will work in the other. Some earlier systems had looser restrictions on 2.5" drive height, but I'm pretty sure both of those used 9.5 mm drives (although I can't guarantee that you couldn't shoehorn a 12.5mm drive in to one or the other). The interfaces are electrically compatible. You should be fine.

- Anonymous


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:24 am 
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BDAqua wrote:
You don't say how old the G3 is, oldest ones used ATA2, later ones Ultra ATA, while the 1st G4 iBooks used Ultra ATA/100.


Yeah, I'm not sure how old the G3 is, and I wiped the system to try to remove the PO's data that she left on the machine. So, maybe later today I'll try to find out if anything is left to ID it. G4 is from about '04.

[EDIT: Tried to boot the G3, but, it "can't find the drive" . . . but, on the bottom it says Model #A1005 and then there is the "TM 2002 Apple computer" . . . so possibly 2002?? It has the same "2 USB plugs" as my '04 G4 does . . . only diff is it is the "12" . . . . .]UN-EDIT!!!!!! :emphatic-eek:

Anonymous wrote:
Yes, it should fit and if it works in one it will work in the other. Some earlier systems had looser restrictions on 2.5" drive height, but I'm pretty sure both of those used 9.5 mm drives (although I can't guarantee that you couldn't shoehorn a 12.5mm drive in to one or the other). The interfaces are electrically compatible. You should be fine.

- Anonymous


So, perhaps it might be worth fiddling with? Haven't done a whole lot of messing with the innards of laptops . . . this G3 has already sucked a bunch of time spent thinking it could be "use-able" . . . but, it's all part of the game.

Any thoughts on whether a standard (non-SSD) HD . . . but larger than the OEM 40GB is possible for the G4? OWC is showing SSD 60GB for $99 . . . which I don't exactly want to toss at this oldish computer . . . but, getting more space might help get some more linux venues set up on . . . . Albeit, not as "fast" as the SSD . . . the RAM is maxed out at 646 MB, sort of the limiting factor . . . .

e...


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 2:10 am 
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It will certainly be limited to 128GB (in HD manufacturer terminology that's 137GB).


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 4:37 am 
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este.el.paz wrote:
Any thoughts on whether a standard (non-SSD) HD . . . but larger than the OEM 40GB is possible for the G4? OWC is showing SSD 60GB for $99 . . . which I don't exactly want to toss at this oldish computer . . .

Don't buy anything for something so old; your money is better spent on something newer unless you have a penchant for antiques.
The other day I threw out a fully functional Toshiba laptop with an old version of Windows on it, because it was unquestionably obsolete. If I was going to collect classic computers I would like once again an old eMac for their cool design. Used to have one once but it expired. Visually they were pretty cool. The early 2000 G3 Powermacs, the coloured ones, I think are also collectable.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:07 am 
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Gents:

Appreciate the thoughts . . . and, yeah, disinclined to spend money as well, but, in some places where I work in LA it might be useful to have something essentially "not worth stealing" sitting around, rather than my "valuable" '09 MBPro. Hence the thought about bringing the G4 up a tad bit in speed and capacity--I run dual-boot with linux on most of my computers.

e...


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 7:30 pm 
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To you it's not worth stealing. That's because you know what it is. Thieves, though, are a pretty stupid bunch (that's why they're thieves). If it's a PowerBook then they think it's the latest 'n greatest MacBook, if it's an iBook then they think it's an older MacBook. Either way they'll think they can get a few hundred for it because that's what pawnshops will pay (who are generally staffed by rather stupid people who overpay for electronics, but especially the ones that are obviously stolen, so they can claim they had no idea it was stolen when the cops show up).

As a general rule when trying to put yourself in a thief's mindset, imagine how much sense of mind you'd have if you were whacked out on methamphetamines or had crashed a couple days ago and would do just about anything for that next fix. You still won't quite be there but you'll be in the ballpark.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 7:45 pm 
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@MB:

Thieves in LA are very "savvy" . . . even if hopped up on stimulants . . . many are "moonlighters" . . . like they have a "day" job, and then they steal at night . . . . But, I meant for me, the loss of the iBook would be less "intrusive" than the loss of my MBPro . . . . I've been in LA now for >30 years, if a thief wants something bad enough they will get it . . . if they "wanted" my iBook, that would be "better" . . . . :ugeek:

e...


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 8:31 pm 
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All the theft that's occurred from coworketrs in LA on business trips happened during the day, and were typically smash and grab or (in some cases) simply grab (thanks, dimwitted coworkers, for leaving those car doors unlocked). Most of the time the equipment wasn't really worth crap.

I'll admit the thieves are probably a higher class than in the midwest, but they're still completely oblivious to the security cameras recording their every action, that end up as evidence during their trial.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 6:59 am 
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Funny. Even the trial can be part of the "show" . . . but, people get "stuck" . . . everything is pretty expensive in LA, and the most common scenario is the "crime of opportunity" . . . like you described . . . "I was walking by, and there was this computer . . . it looked like mine, so I thought I'd check it out . . . oh the door isn't locked, this must be a sign that God wants me to have this . . . ." Note the reliance on "God" that helps thieves make these decisions . . . having nothing, it is "justice" that is at work . . . they do know it "isn't legal" . . . but, a "higher" quotient is working, for them or else the door wouldn't be unlocked . . . "by the higher power," (the employees were therefore helpless to realize they didn't lock the door), etc. :roll:

e...


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:50 pm 
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Personally, I'd steal a pickup truck, tie it to a power line and drive off so that I could get rich after burning all the insulation off the wire and selling the pure copper for scrap.

..

DO'H! Here I am barbecued like a %*&#ing hotdog only to find out it was aluminum wire!!! :upset: It was a really good plan too, if only the power company hadn't cheated me out of all my money by using cheap aluminum cable instead of copper! And if I hadn't got arrested in the emergency room.

Next time I'm gonna steal that giant cable running to the AM transmitter up on that 300m tall antenna at the far end of town. I know that's gotta be copper! Nothing will go wrong with my new plan!

- Anonymous


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:25 am 
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I was in the ER recently (leg had grown cold, turned out to be a pinched nerve, not a blood clot) and near the end of my visit I started overhearing a long conversation about guns and gun ranges. When they let me loose I opened the drape and right in front of me were two officers sitting in front of the bed of an unconscious individual. Suddenly the conversation made sense...


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 2:51 pm 
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That's the kind of story you expect in Florida, and I do mean expect.

- Anonymous


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 8:47 pm 
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Based on the conversation before I walked out it sounded like some "gun aficionado" and his buddy who owned a gun range were in the ER. One can only imagine what circumstances would have brought both of them together to the ER.

Apparently one of the cops had gotten a new service weapon recently and the other one noticed.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:31 pm 
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The thread kind of got "jacked" by the usual suspects here and we segued off the topic of the G3 and its many issues . . . but I'm now trying to get it back on "course." : - )

I found part of my email conversation with the Lubuntu PPC team guy who sent this "test" G3, and I'll try to post my procedure that I went through with it, in hopes that from the description(s) it could be possible to know if just switching the HD would "fix" the numerous issues it has . . . or clearly there are indications of **multiple** system failures, which should be "obvious" to someone with technical experience . . . OR, gee, possibly ALL of those issues could be explained by failing HD?????

Quote:
#1: Got the machine late evening . . . can't tell if it's worth the cost of shipping . . . besides being very low spec and G3 . . . there seem to be numerous problems . . . . mechanical and possibly software related. I only spent maybe 45 mins trying to get it to do stuff . . . GUI has problems with drop down menus staying visible to click on; seemed like possibly HD was "chattering" suggesting imminent doom there, which in itself doesn't matter, but the optical drive is CD only . . . rejected DVDs, and holding C key on reboot would not boot one of the few CD Live burns that I have . . . although it did mount on the desktop I couldn't get it booted. So, I switched to USB drive, holding option key just returned to OSX window . . . no OSX boot loader. [Basically keystrokes are not "recognized" by the machine, just mouse clicks???]

So, I'm not sure how I'm going to get any Lubuntu installs . . . I'm not stocked with CDs to try . . . but, even a netboot needs to boot a CD, right??? I have a clone of 10.3 G4 iBook, but don't know if that will do anything in terms of getting the system to accept that and then maybe "work" to recognize the C or option keys . . . ????

this is a 800MHz G3 with 384MB RAM . . . and . . . possibly "busted flat in Baton Rouge" . . . .

I'll let you know what I find out with more time . . . .

#2: On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 11:07 AM,

Spent some more time with the G3 . . . tried to boot the ext HD via FW like I mentioned, with option key . . . it was mounted, but cycles through to OSX 10.2 window . . . .

Tried to boot a ubuntu mini install CD with C key . . . same thing--back to OSX.

So, tried the install CD for 10.3 that I have for my G4 iBook . . . where "restart" is offered via GUI (if you see where this is going--ways to get the system to boot into something else without keyboard) . . . and, it asks for passphrase for admin "Eta G" . . . which I have no clue what that is. So, seems like I'm up the creek on this one unless you know Eta and can get her password and user name . . . she is set as "admin" . . . unit isn't rebooting into CDs or FW ext HD . . . . Only "good" thing is that it is set for auto log in . . . .

Any ideas???

#3: Spent another hour with the G3 trying to get it "sorted" . . . did manage to get the 10.3 installer booted . . . after adding myself as admin . . . and I ran disk permissions repair, which clearly had not been done in awhile . . . tried to upgrade to 10.3 and that failed. I did a safe boot . . . then I tried to install applejack to try to clean the system, but, that also failed . . . . I also "changed the root user password" . . . to my password, but didn't seem to allow me to install anything.

I tried again to boot a CD, this time Apple Hardware test, and then again the ubuntu mini . . . failed. I tried to re-set the PRAM and it just chimed for one time then restarted into the log-in, but this time the password dots were continually loading and unloading . . . .

I ***might*** be able to erase the system that is installed, but, doesn't seem like anything is working after that . . . right now there is a GUI, but I can't boot into anything except via "restart" from the 10.3 install CD . . . but attempts to upgrade or add software are "failing" . . . .

Possibly done with it?? Is there a pure internet installer for Lu?


Similar questions to these questions were posted on the Lubuntu User list serve, but, nothing was offered as a possible direction for testing or fixing the machine . . . the sender hasn't responded to further comments or questions about this computer that he sent out under the impression that it is or was "top spec" and "in perfect working order," other than "perhaps needing a HD" . . . does that sound feasible and is it worth plucking the HD out of my G4 and plugging into the G3 for a "rainy day" project? Or, clearly the thang is "broke down" . . . don't waste my time with it?

Thnx,

e...


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:59 pm 
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Quote:
OR, gee, possibly ALL of those issues could be explained by failing HD?????

Quite possible, I've seen it myself on other systems, earlier OSes are much smaller & may only use good Sectors or bots of the HDD/Bus that are good… dip into one bad Sector or some Byte size anomaly &… poof… nothing works.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 4:36 pm 
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@BD:

OK, I could see that, but that would mean that in that smaller OS things were "OK" and "working" and then after an upgrade they stopped?? But, in this case nothing was working from the get go . . . won't boot CD with "c" key or usb flash drive . . . drop down menus not working in whatever it was, 10.2 . . . etc, etc.

Well, anyway, I get that it is difficult to say anything definitive . . . perhaps at some point I will bother to waste the time popping the HD out--see if it "fixes" the POS . . . it's "all for the linux on PPC cause" . . . . :bonk:


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 5:54 pm 
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I wonder if command option o f would allow you to enter open firmware? It was possible to lock out startup options but I don't remember the details. As I recall this also blocked you from booting off CDs and external devices.

With current Macs you just set a firmware password and it disables most of them, while the rest prompt for the firmware password.

If you have the CD inserted and mounted you might be able to choose it as a startup disk in system preferences.

Here's a technote on firmware passwords under OpenFirmware & EFI:
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT1352

Unfortunately it looks like Apple helpfully deleted the utility for older OSes like 10.3 and earlier. :|


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 6:09 pm 
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@MB:

It didn't boot into open firmware . . . which I tried to get to to boot the USB flash drive . . . wasn't responding to any key stroke attempts . . . . I have since erased the 10.2 system trying to see if a "fresh" install would change anything . . . but install "fails" after a few minutes . . . .

e...


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:12 pm 
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Sorry, I didn't see anything in your earlier notes about trying to book into open firmware. If you look at that list of commands, that's just about the only command that doesn't get blocked by an open firmware lock (the ones that don't get blocked aren't present in older PPC systems - like D). In addition, only the command and option on the right side of the keyboard will work for a PRAM reset after you change the amount of RAM in the system (the combination of which will remove an open firmware password).

It certainly sounds a lot like an open firmware password was set on the system and either it wasn't removed or it's been half-removed (change RAM then didn't zap PRAM).

Reinstalling the OS could be a bad HD. The sad thing is that if you had sudo nvram -p from the running OS X instance we could have known whether an open firmware password was set because it would have (among other things) printed out the encrypted password. Now you can't know with that option gone. Unless the OS X install disc allows you to launch terminal and its limited OS X installation includes the nvram command? Not sure. Your OS X disc could also be a version too old to support that hardware, although in that case it should fail a lot earlier.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 6:51 am 
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@MB:

Thanks for the further thoughts . . . definitely I would have done the PRAM using the left side option/command keys . . . and appreciate the "sudo nvram -p" idea . . . I might be able to try to boot the Tiger install disk I have and might be able to get to Terminal . . . . But, I don't think the RAM has been upgraded?? 386 MB RAM I think is what it has . . . of course I don't know how to find out if there has been open firmware lock, but . . . if there is does that require an admin password?

Personally I think that o-f lock idea would require more "attention" by the original owner . . . this computer just seems to have been over-used and then abandoned . . . there was some "wifi" CD left in the optical drive, that perhaps was to install some driver--and then left in there???

Maybe over the weekend I'll take a few moments to see if I can get to the Terminal . . . pretty sure that it wouldn't boot to single user from the keyboard, etc . . . .

e...


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 1:20 pm 
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Laptops tended to get open firmware passwords set on them more often than desktops, since they're more likely to have sticky fingers acquire them.

To remove an open firmware password you have to change the amount of RAM in the system (typically by removing a module) and then reset the PRAM using command & option keys on the right side of the keyboard (plus P & R of course).


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