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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:06 pm 
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Gents:

I know it's not a new topic, and perhaps worked over . . . but, have to say I've reached my tether on TFF and the dev response to problems that show up . . . and I'd like another option that lets me use 10.4.11 with an updated browser . . . . I have the last "supported" FF, the last "supported" Sea Monkey . . . won't mention Safari as the old version was super slow even in its day, and now I'm back in TFF 31.8?? The latest, 38-2 caused a system "crash" and I reverted back to 31.8 . . . it's OK.

The "challenge" is trying to keep the PM 3,1 with its 450 MHz processor still running these memory hungry sites, like Gmail & Yahoo, and FB . . . and TFF has been just barely getting it done . . . now, seems like they aren't interested in hearing that 38-2 is having "problems" and the response to another guys post and my similar experience was . . . "tough ruck" . . . .

I tried Camino to get to Mozillazine . . . and it worked. Over in the Xu 12.04 base I've added ToriOS and that gets me around pretty well on the web, but, benefit of OSX is it has "sleep" . . . 12.04 doesn't offer "suspend" . . . .

Any "new" browsers out there for 10.4.11?? :whip:

e..


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:10 pm 
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Nothing recent, but for possible utility...

Might also look into old iCab & OmniWeb versions.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:49 pm 
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BDAqua wrote:
Nothing recent, but for possible utility...

Might also look into old iCab & OmniWeb versions.


BD:

O yeah, I did download iCab for the better half back when the PM was still hers . . . I think iCab is "shareware" now??? And then, is it upgraded in some regular fashion??

I think I have tried Omniweb at various junctures . . . I know it seemed to crash at times . . . didn't mind it as a browser . . . it might still be installed??? My memory is of it crashing . . . .

I'll be trying stuff, moving on from TFF is my hopeful plan.

e..


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:27 pm 
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I haven't tried them lately, they might crash on the new improved internet!

I still have the original iCAB browser on my Atari... that is what the A stands for. :)


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 12:43 am 
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Have you tried an older version of Opera? Version 12 for example was fairly recent (they're now up to version 30 or beyond. Sigh. It must be Tuesday...). Failing that, you could perhaps try version 10, or even 9 which I remember running in OS X 10.2 on an Iceberg iBook. How well "old Opera" would work in modern websites is another matter.

There is an archive page where you can get all the old versions.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 6:58 am 
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MacBiter wrote:
Have you tried an older version of Opera? Version 12 for example was fairly recent (they're now up to version 30 or beyond. Sigh. It must be Tuesday...). Failing that, you could perhaps try version 10, or even 9 which I remember running in OS X 10.2 on an Iceberg iBook. How well "old Opera" would work in modern websites is another matter.

There is an archive page where you can get all the old versions.


@McB:

Opera, thanks also for the reminder . . . I think Opera is what I was thinking of when BD said, "Omniweb" . . . and I think it's Opera that I did use at one point and there were some issues . . . but, anything is worth trying, as I would love to be able to walk away from TFF . . . . It has been the only browser that has tried to keep pace with updating web requirements, but the attitude has been and continues to be . . . "immature" . . . . I posted a thread on Mozillazine asking for a version of straight FF to be "ported" for PPC . . . so far, no response to it . . . . It was a sad day when the Camino devs decided to pull the plug on updating it, Camino was a really nice open source browser . . . . :|

So far what is working pretty well is ToriOS on 12.04 Xu . . . it does get me around the web in pretty good speeds.
e..


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:39 am 
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To be fair, the Camino devs really pulled the plug on development at least a couple years before they officially pulled the plug. After the initial flurry of awesome progress it just kinda stalled out and stopped getting updated. I miss Camino. :cry:


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 12:03 pm 
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They were all volunteers and not enough of them to sustain it.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 12:32 pm 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
To be fair, the Camino devs really pulled the plug on development at least a couple years before they officially pulled the plug. After the initial flurry of awesome progress it just kinda stalled out and stopped getting updated. I miss Camino. :cry:


Yeah, I'm with you on Camino . . . . I actually fired it up again today, the "last" version and it wasn't too bad . . . it did get me into the basic HTML of Gmail & Yahoo & did get me around FB . . . . I tried Omniweb, which I did have in the past, with the "tabs" loaded on the side . . . it is "interesting" but it didn't load Yahoo. It did show the FB "resources" loading which explains why there are problems, over 1200 "resources" showed as loading, before I cut it after 5 mins of loading.

@ZZZ:

True, Camino was a volunteer effort, but FF should have "absorbed" it into its effort . . . as it seems like TFF is a two man show?? I don't get why FF couldn't pick up the load on keeping a browser updated for PPC???

e..


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 12:44 pm 
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Because the project head for FF is an egomaniac who thought Intel-only web browsers were the wave of the future. Except then they had to go and make FirefoxOS on ARM and his carefully thought out master plan came crumbling down like a poorly constructed house of cards. For the first few versions after they made the official change to Intel-only it was possible to simply download the source & compile it as PPC, Mozilla hadn't actually done anything Intel-only. But, eventually, they found a way. It's all a matter of writing portable source code, and Mozilla felt it was too much trouble to require their volunteers to write portable source, then have experienced guys go over that code to make sure it's portable, etc. - basically it made bringing FirefoxOS into the world a lot harder because they had all this worthless Intel-only code they couldn't simply bring over into the project.

TFF is primarily a one-man show, with another couple guys periodically contributing pieces, but Cameron is basically it. I see a lot of people in the Tomato world expecting all the similar one-man shows there to somehow reach into their odd configuration/ISP/router combination, find the bug that only they're seeing, and fix it for them. And they need to do it NOW. :roll:

Not saying that's the same thing here but one man shows are basically a matter of time. He's not charging for the product, so he's not earning money from the project, so he's not doing this as a full time job, so his free time is limited... basically if you can't track down the exact cause of the bug and upload a source patch, the odds are low that you'll see the bug fixed. Most of the bugs I see exist in TFF are in the FF source because they also occur in native FF clients, so it's not like he's got the time to track down those.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 1:11 pm 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
TFF is primarily a one-man show, with another couple guys periodically contributing pieces, but Cameron is basically it. I see a lot of people in the Tomato world expecting all the similar one-man shows there to somehow reach into their odd configuration/ISP/router combination, find the bug that only they're seeing, and fix it for them. And they need to do it NOW. :roll:

Not saying that's the same thing here but one man shows are basically a matter of time. He's not charging for the product, so he's not earning money from the project, so he's not doing this as a full time job, so his free time is limited... basically if you can't track down the exact cause of the bug and upload a source patch, the odds are low that you'll see the bug fixed. Most of the bugs I see exist in TFF are in the FF source because they also occur in native FF clients, so it's not like he's got the time to track down those.


@MB:

Always interesting to hear the "back story" . . . and, I must have "sensed" "ego-mania" energy around FF, as traditionally I preferred Camino . . . now in my MBPro FF is used . . . it's fine.

And, yeah, I know it's just Cameron at TFF . . . and, over the years he was more "interactive" . . . and generally I just waited until the next version came along to see if it "fixed" a problem. Recently, I think back in 31 there was one version that was f**ked up, and I might have posted nothing on his "help" forum . . . and very quickly a new one came out . . . and 31-8 was fine. However, 38-2 came out last week, and sites like FB that were working OK in 31, suddenly were not loading, it was ***radically*** different. I checked the "help" forum and there was a post from someone else . . . "TFF is slow" and the guy said, "I'm rolling back." I added my findings to that thread--and there was no response from CK or Chris--not surprising, but I wasn't expecting it. A couple days later as I mentioned here in TFF it basically crashed my computer. I checked the "help" forum . . . there was another thread saying, "TFF crashed my computer" and there were a couple other posts there saying they also found it crashed their system. I added my findings, said I was "waiting for an update" and perhaps I would have to roll back. Nothing like, "you guys need to fix this, now" . . . and CK then did reply, "There is no update coming, so if you want our help you are going to have to do what we say . . . ." You **might*** be able to find the thread and read it. If he's pressed for time then why post the same posts that he has over the years . . . starting with, "I don't mean to be rude . . . " . . . sorry, the guy is a putz. :fishsmack:

e..


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 2:04 pm 
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9 times out of 10 when I'm having an issue with FF it's just profile corruption, so FF isn't immune from this by any stretch of the imagination. Periodically I just have to nuke my profile and start a new one. The big jumps are usually where I noticed the corruption occurring but even minor jumps periodically have caused them to crop up.

I dunno I'm not trying to point fingers in any way, I've never interacted with him. He could be a complete dick and I'd still use TFF because, well, it's not like I have any other option except to upgrade to an Intel system. You just can't browse the internet using an old browser unless you enjoy having your system hijacked. The websites you're visiting will, sooner or later, include something that will try to exploit your browser, whether that exploit succeeds or not depends on whether your browser is up to date. Sucks but there's not a whole lot you can do, it's not like criminals are going to put on kid gloves.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 2:51 pm 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
9 times out of 10 when I'm having an issue with FF it's just profile corruption, so FF isn't immune from this by any stretch of the imagination. Periodically I just have to nuke my profile and start a new one. The big jumps are usually where I noticed the corruption occurring but even minor jumps periodically have caused them to crop up.

I dunno I'm not trying to point fingers in any way, I've never interacted with him. He could be a complete dick and I'd still use TFF because, well, it's not like I have any other option except to upgrade to an Intel system. You just can't browse the internet using an old browser unless you enjoy having your system hijacked. The websites you're visiting will, sooner or later, include something that will try to exploit your browser, whether that exploit succeeds or not depends on whether your browser is up to date. Sucks but there's not a whole lot you can do, it's not like criminals are going to put on kid gloves.


OK, "nuke the profile" . . . does that mean all the book marks and all are wiped? Well, yeah, I have "gotten over" his comments in the past, due to lack of options . . . . I do now see an email from him in my inbox, might check it tomorrow. I suggested that he "grow up and try to see that people are just trying to help make his product better" . . . he **might*** be doing that, or, not . . . .

e..


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 3:01 pm 
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este.el.paz wrote:
OK, "nuke the profile" . . . does that mean all the book marks and all are wiped? Well, yeah, I have "gotten over" his comments in the past, due to lack of options . . . . I do now see an email from him in my inbox, might check it tomorrow. I suggested that he "grow up and try to see that people are just trying to help make his product better" . . . he **might*** be doing that, or, not . . . .
A new clean profile would have no bookmarks or anything else in it, but you can import the bookmarks.html from your old profile into it, then add all your extensions one by one into it. I'm not saying it's not a PITA, but it beats what I just saw someone suggest to another person the other day... someone else's Google Chrome wasn't auto-updating to the latest version, and he insisted that the only way to fix it was to reinstall all of OS X because, this is the funny part, something in OS X was screwed up. You just can't make this stuff up sometimes... blind devotion to the almighty Google. The thought that Google might just have screwed up was impossible.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 3:13 pm 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
este.el.paz wrote:
OK, "nuke the profile" . . . does that mean all the book marks and all are wiped? Well, yeah, I have "gotten over" his comments in the past, due to lack of options . . . . I do now see an email from him in my inbox, might check it tomorrow. I suggested that he "grow up and try to see that people are just trying to help make his product better" . . . he **might*** be doing that, or, not . . . .
A new clean profile would have no bookmarks or anything else in it, but you can import the bookmarks.html from your old profile into it, then add all your extensions one by one into it. I'm not saying it's not a PITA, but it beats what I just saw someone suggest to another person the other day... someone else's Google Chrome wasn't auto-updating to the latest version, and he insisted that the only way to fix it was to reinstall all of OS X because, this is the funny part, something in OS X was screwed up. You just can't make this stuff up sometimes... blind devotion to the almighty Google. The thought that Google might just have screwed up was impossible.


@MB:

Yeah, that reminds me of the first tier "applecare" techs that would ask "Did you restart the computer?" as their first line effort, and then, if that didn't fix the problem . . . say, "OK, we'll have to do a re-install, NOW . . . wipe everything, NOW!!!" Using intimidation to enforce their "authority" . . . took awhile to realize that there might be other options back then, and great time and expense of effort . . . to fix some simple problem.

But, I thought I might try 38-2 7450 in my iBook and see how that runs it, rather than in the PM running 7400 . . . and, if it "crashes" the iBook in 7450 then I might think about nuking the profile . . . . I don't know, I don't do too much online that using an old browser isn't something un-use-able . . . .

e..


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 3:18 pm 
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Just checked the email . . . it was from one of the other people who had problems with the new edition. He asks:

Quote:
What is the difference between Resetting my Profile and Refreshing TenFourFox?


Is there a difference? I thought "refreshing TFF" wipes everything?? Is more "total wipe" than "reset profile"??

e..


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 3:24 pm 
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The refresh (previously known as reset) firefox feature in newer FF is basically creating a new profile and importing select items from the old profile over. I guess with the move to the 38.x codebase we've inherited the reset feature.

Creating a new profile by hand is old school, yo.

The problem with exploits is do you mind having everything that's currently stored on your computer being in the hands of a criminal? If so, then there's no problem using an old browser or similar internet-enabled technology. Otherwise you should take steps to protect yourself. Remember, even something as innocuous as your name & address can be give an identity thief just enough nuggets of information to - with some additional digging - create a world of annoyance for you.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 12:12 am 
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I just launched Firefox and it updated itself from 39 to 40. I have no idea if that's a good or a bad thing since I only use FF when a site won't load in Safari.

HOWEVER... I hadn't noticed until recently that FF was much if any faster than Safari 5. But now.. it RACES along! If it wasn't for Glims and Reader, I'd now use FF instead.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 6:56 am 
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MacBiter wrote:
I just launched Firefox and it updated itself from 39 to 40. I have no idea if that's a good or a bad thing since I only use FF when a site won't load in Safari.

HOWEVER... I hadn't noticed until recently that FF was much if any faster than Safari 5. But now.. it RACES along! If it wasn't for Glims and Reader, I'd now use FF instead.


I don't remember which Safari is loaded with 10.4.11, but yes, it is unuseably slow . . . even now in 10.6 & 10.9 FF is the frontline browser . . . basic function works well, etc. I haven't checked the old version of FF that I have in 10.4.11 because it uses the same "profile"??? as TFF and does something that messes it up?

@MB:

Thanks for the thoughts on "refresh FF" versus "reprofile" . . . so it sounds like "refresh FF" would be the "easier" or "lower echelon" step that wouldn't wipe bookmarks and such, something to try first???

And, "criminals"??? Well, I live in LA, so "criminals" are everywhere, and, they need to make a living as well, kids college fund, etc. So, I'm not a hater . . . . :ugeek: There was I think somebody who got my data from the Blue Cross hack and billed my credit card for $9K worth of flight tickets, but, it was flagged and it was a pain to get it "handled" even though BoA "knew" it was fraud. On the old computers I'm on a home DSL, intermittently, all around me are now mostly billionaires . . . I don't visit too many porn sites . . . I'm probably low down on the radar. I guess I could reboot into linux to do my online banking . . . with the "newer" FF for latest security. :coffee: I'm getting used to Sea Monkey again.

e..


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 8:17 am 
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MacBiter wrote:
Reader
You are now aware that 39 & up include Reader.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 12:14 pm 
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Quote:
I'm getting used to Sea Monkey again.


Well, um, I guess I have to recant . . . I tried to pull away from TFF, but the gravitational pull is too strong . . . if I use the older browsers one of them works on Gmail, but not Yahoo, other works on Gmail/Yahoo, but not FB . . . and so forth. So even if I was content with the html only aspect of Gmail . . . the newer web sites are too demanding on the older browser . . . .

So until ToriOS finds a way to get suspend, or somehow a faster processor for ST shows up to upgrade to 10.5 . . . if I'm in OSX then TFF is the choice, 31-8 is working OK . . . I guess if I **need** to go up to 38-2 then I would have to try, what? First step "refresh FF" for least "by hand" rebuild . . .??? And then if its still crashing try "new profile"??

I don't know why CK would go out of his way to say "There are no updates coming on 38-2" ??? does that mean he's getting out of the browser biz? Or the next FF has already come out and it will go to TFF 39 ????

e..


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 12:24 pm 
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On older browsers have you tried User Agent switching?

LOL, sites that refused to display did fine if I said I was using an iPhone 3!


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 1:00 pm 
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https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/pr ... x-profiles

Create a new profile, see if your problem doesn't occur in it. If it does, then you're looking at some kind of bug. If it doesn't, then it's profile corruption.

You can try loading the other profile and then using the refresh firefox (e.g. reset firefox) feature, which is certainly less painful than just using your new profile. Moving over anything more than bookmarks has always ended in misery for me.

Personally I have my user agent string set to normal Firefox. The problem is I have to keep the damn string updated as regular Firefox gets updated, which is periodically a challenge as FF keeps finding regression bugs. Most sites don't care but there's always the poorly written exceptions.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 4:54 pm 
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BDAqua wrote:
On older browsers have you tried User Agent switching?
LOL, sites that refused to display did fine if I said I was using an iPhone 3!


@BD: I do remember you suggesting this in the past, looking through TFF I don't see that option. I'll have to look over Sea Monkey and see if that is available, or any of them . . . .

MonkeyBoy wrote:
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/profile-manager-create-and-remove-firefox-profiles
Create a new profile, see if your problem doesn't occur in it. If it does, then you're looking at some kind of bug. If it doesn't, then it's profile corruption.
You can try loading the other profile and then using the refresh firefox (e.g. reset firefox) feature, which is certainly less painful than just using your new profile. Moving over anything more than bookmarks has always ended in misery for me.


@MB: One of my old adages from construction was, "Install first, then read instructions" based upon seeing how other carpenters were doing it. So I was going to say, "I checked TFF and only thing I found was in Tools>webdeveloper>profiler and it said, 'There are no profiles yet.'" Then I checked your link and saw the instructions . . . so, OK, I have to use Terminal to get the Profile Manager to open . . . doesn't look too difficult . . . . No major rush right now as back in 31-8 things are fine, no profiles, no problems . . . I'll check into it in a few days . . . . Thanks for the very fine insights and assistance.

e...


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 5:02 pm 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/profile-manager-create-and-remove-firefox-profiles

Create a new profile, see if your problem doesn't occur in it. If it does, then you're looking at some kind of bug. If it doesn't, then it's profile corruption.

You can try loading the other profile and then using the refresh firefox (e.g. reset firefox) feature, which is certainly less painful than just using your new profile. Moving over anything more than bookmarks has always ended in misery for me.

Seemed to be some corruption in the profile I had been using since I started using Firefox, long time ago, so I just had some fun creating, or rather, finishing up, a new profile I had started last year. Did it the hard way, by reinstalling everything. Only major problem I encountered was the Profile Manager.

Had to use /Applications/Firefox.app/Contents/MacOS/firefox --ProfileManager, instead of Applications/Firefox.app/Contents/MacOS/firefox-bin --ProfileManager

With firefox-bin, which really isn't an application, Little Snitch went crazy with zillions of prompts. Without it, LS used the current rules for Firefox, the application. Drove me nuts until I changed the command.

Only thing left is to try to restore all the changes I made in about:config over the years, none of which I remember any more. Can find a lot of them listed in about:support.


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