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 Post subject: 10.11 headache
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:39 pm 
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Might be because, after upgrading the iMac first to EC, after an erase I cloned the iMac to the Mini --only seeing this behavior on the Mini with 10.11.6, not at the iMac:

Sometimes, after a restart, everything is there, but can't select anything at the login window. I have the cursor, but can't select any of the accounts, nor sleep, nor restart nor shutdown. Login window is totally frozen. Keyboard does nothing. Login window doesn't respond. Been happening since I did the clone/upgrade at the Mini. Only way out is a hard shutdown.

To fix: trash com.apple.loginwindow.plist in my user? Also, same location, By Host? Not seeing any great clues in Console.

Any suggestions?


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 Post subject: Re: 10.11 headache
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:03 pm 
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Do you get the same response if you Safe Boot?


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 Post subject: Re: 10.11 headache
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:19 pm 
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Have done numerous safe boots, but can't remember if, coming out of a safe boot, the login window froze like this. Might have, just don't remember. One thing is certain, safe boot/clearing whatever caches that clears in 10.11 doesn't permanently fix this.

Seems to be related to cloning from the iMac--something at the Mini hasn't been very happy about that.


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 Post subject: Re: 10.11 headache
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:31 pm 
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I was thinking maybe Graphic Drivers or some Display setting, or 3rd party thing?


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 Post subject: Re: 10.11 headache
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:54 pm 
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BDAqua wrote:
I was thinking maybe Graphic Drivers or some Display setting, or 3rd party thing?

Not sure where to start looking for any of those.

loginwindow.plist unrelated?

Any other plists in user prefs to try?


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 Post subject: Re: 10.11 headache
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:21 pm 
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I haven't tried the loginwindow.plist thing since about 10.5.8, & haven't tried the applesetupdone since 10.8.4, though I suspect either would still work.

Oh, try CMD+r or FWTM to use Disk Utility for Repair, until you see Rebuilding Boot Caches… that may be it.


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 Post subject: Re: 10.11 headache
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:37 pm 
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Hmmm, maybe…

/Users/YourUserName/Library/Preferences/com.apple.BezelServices.plist


https://robert.sesek.com/2016/3/bezelse ... _os_x.html


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 Post subject: Re: 10.11 headache
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 6:34 pm 
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I would try enabling ssh and seeing if you can ssh into the system when its otherwise frozen. If you can't do that, see if it responds to pings. For the latter you'll probably need to turn off the firewall. This just gives you an idea of how badly frozen up it is... if it doesn't let you ssh in, and doesn't respond to pings, the system is damn near inaccessible. This assumes the system responds to pings when its not frozen up, mind you.

I used to get into odd pickles with my G4 where, after it put the screen/system to sleep, it wouldn't bring up the login window to unlock. So I ssh'd into the system and sometimes could kill off a process to make it log my user out of the system, but other times I just had to sudo shutdown -r now to get it back.


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 Post subject: Re: 10.11 headache
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:29 pm 
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Does the iMac boot from the clone?


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 Post subject: Re: 10.11 headache
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:44 pm 
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As mentioned, seems to be related to bringing over the 10.11.6 iMac clone to the Mini, because I've been experiencing other oddities, most of which I've been able to fix. Some setting or settings, pref files, who knows what, unique to the iMac which just don't play well with the Mini. Does that give any clues?

Idea of cloning from the iMac was to avoid the few hours of work of upgrading the Mini directly to 10.11 from 10.8, and instead I've been at it for over a week, with this being one of the most stubborn of the problems. Numerous safe boots, SMC/PRAM resets, clearing boot cache, LaunchServices csstore fles, etc.

Seems to come and go. Never had this issue with 10.8 at the Mini, so don't think it's hardware.


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 Post subject: Re: 10.11 headache
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:51 pm 
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BDAqua wrote:
Does the iMac boot from the clone?

It does, but haven't booted to the clone and restarted often enough to definitively say it would never give me this problem. But don't think it would over there.

EDIT: it did cross my mind that perhaps there was something funky with the clone--didn't test it exhaustively.


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 Post subject: Re: 10.11 headache
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:32 pm 
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FWIW, I dont suspect HW at this point,,, other than drivers for HW.


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 Post subject: Re: 10.11 headache
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:01 pm 
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Whenever you clone to a new machine, especially if it isn't of the same exact model, you should nuke your kernel caches. Your first boot afterward will be slow as a new one is made, but subsequent boots should work at normal speed. Odds are that your Mini doesn't like the set of cached extensions used on bootup, which worked perfectly fine in the iMac, but due to hardware differences, meaning different drivers needing to be loaded, they freeze up on launch.

A utility like TinkerTool System or such should help you do this manually without much fanfare.

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 Post subject: Re: 10.11 headache
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:42 am 
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Squishy Tia wrote:
Whenever you clone to a new machine, especially if it isn't of the same exact model, you should nuke your kernel caches. Your first boot afterward will be slow as a new one is made, but subsequent boots should work at normal speed. Odds are that your Mini doesn't like the set of cached extensions used on bootup, which worked perfectly fine in the iMac, but due to hardware differences, meaning different drivers needing to be loaded, they freeze up on launch.

A utility like TinkerTool System or such should help you do this manually without much fanfare.

Thanks for the suggestion--sounds very logical.Tried that, using Onyx delete boot and kernel caches. But wasn't sure of the result, so just decided fuck it and did a very time consuming reinstall, which made the problem even worse. So restored a recent clone, did the Onyx thing again, restarted and I'm awaiting the results.

Have discovered, or realized, that when this freezing happens it's most likely to occur at the login window after restarting from a safe boot--no idea why that should bring it on. Something to do with caches not getting fully rebuilt after a safe boot?


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 Post subject: Re: 10.11 headache
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:08 am 
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Is it set to auto login regularly?


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 Post subject: Re: 10.11 headache
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:43 am 
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BDAqua wrote:
Is it set to auto login regularly?

Nope, not set to auto login. When login window freezes, it prevents selecting an account to enter account password.

Btw, probably won't make any difference, but just deleted a ton of plists in Prefs By Host with the iMac Hardware UUID. Still many left from previous migrations--iMac G5, even old iMac G3.


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 Post subject: Re: 10.11 headache
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:01 pm 
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May seem too obvious, but does the caps lock key light up when it's frozen and you press it? Does unplugging and replugging the keyboard and mouse make a difference?

- Anonymous


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 Post subject: Re: 10.11 headache
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:09 pm 
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Crap, that's a good one. I always check capslock when a system seems nonresponsive.

Aggravatingly sometimes a system will respond to capslock but with a long delay, so hit it an odd number of times and pause in case it suddenly strobes or lights... goes dark... lights... etc.

If you unplug and replug the keyboard, if it doesn't respond immediately give it 10 or 15 seconds. Sometimes the USB bus is a little pokey to notice new events. Then try again.


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 Post subject: Re: 10.11 headache
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:09 pm 
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Thanks Anon/MB, great suggestions.
Don't know if it will hold, restarted after a safe boot, where the login window usually freezes, and it went OK--no freezes, worked normally. Maybe deleting the boot/kernel/extensions caches was responsible. Thanks to Squishy for that one.

This has been driving me nuts. Hope it lasts.


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 Post subject: Re: 10.11 headache
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:04 pm 
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I've got my fingers crossed.


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 Post subject: Re: 10.11 headache
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 2:43 pm 
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Thought I had this all figured out, that it was because of the Magic Mouse being configured in the iMac clone that I brought over--so disabled Bluetooth, and set up the USB mouse at the mini properly. However, despite that keeps happening. Sort of:

Almost always after a safe boot, or maybe 2 times out of 10 on a restart, the right and left clicks get reversed (my preference is to have the Primary at the right and the Secondary at the left.) Maybe another restart fixes this confusion, but not always. Thought it was that the mouse couldn't select anything at the login page, but discovered that a left click (remember, left=right, the way I have it set) does work.

What does fix it when this is happening--Anon's suggestion--is to unplug and replug the keyboard USB cable to the Mini (mouse is plugged into the keyboard--plugging directly won't do, as the mouse cable isn't long enough for where I need to keep it.)

AND, this USB business might be implicated in a recent shutdown hang--got the forever spinning gear at shutdown--unplugged and I think that allowed it to finally shutdown. Or when I unplugged/plugged, it responded to the keyboard shortcut for shutdown: Cmd/Option/Ctrl/Eject, which I tried just then. Or could be it was finally going to shutdown, and USB unplug/plug was only coincidental.

Not seeing any particular pref or cache file to trash. Maybe something in System Configuration (/Library/Preferences/SystemConfiguration/preferences.plist?)

(Haven't tried another keyboard yet, but don't think it's that--and, have several older USB mice, but don't have another one that can do left/right clicking, and kind of like having that available.)

Found this single mouse related message in Console--no idea what it means.

12/20/16 4:29:40.855 PM defaults[836]:
The domain/default pair of (/Users/****/Library/Preferences/com.apple.Terminal, FocusFollowsMouse) does not exist
12/21/16 12:43:32.978 PM System Preferences[427]: Failed to connect (mContentView) outlet from (MouseController) to (NSView): missing setter or instance variable


Any ideas what system-wise might be causing this? What to try to completely resolve this?


Last edited by WZZZ on Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 10.11 headache
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:30 pm 
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Quote:
The domain/default pair of (/Users/****/Library/Preferences/com.apple.Terminal, FocusFollowsMouse) does not exist

Might be the whole mouse issue…

http://www.mactricksandtips.com/2012/06 ... minal.html


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 Post subject: Re: 10.11 headache
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:02 pm 
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BDAqua wrote:
Quote:
The domain/default pair of (/Users/****/Library/Preferences/com.apple.Terminal, FocusFollowsMouse) does not exist

Might be the whole mouse issue…

http://www.mactricksandtips.com/2012/06 ... minal.html

Needs some explanation: I think I understand the feature the link describes, but don't see the connection.

Is it something to do with this feature having somehow been inadvertently activated in my user, and not working? Is that why I'm getting this message in Console? And if so, what would this have to do with the left/right clicks intermittently getting confused?


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 Post subject: Re: 10.11 headache
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:36 pm 
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It seems like a really screwy feature to me, it sends input somewhere other than the foremost window, depending on mouse location.

I can't test or prove it, but I can picture it messing with login for instance just based on where the mouse pointer is at some unknown point in time, & possibly affecting left/right due to where the possibly invisible pointer is during loading prefs.

And the introduction of even more Fullscreen & other display nonsense makes the outcome even more unpredictable, there may be even more Apps/Services with FocusFollowsMouse.

I'd try disabling it for a test… & of course who knows when any change might take effect with all the persistent caches.


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 Post subject: Re: 10.11 headache
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:47 pm 
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Thanks, it's a wild shot in the dark, since I never enabled it. But can't hurt. Never happens on the iMac, so assumed it was specifically a USB mouse only issue. But who knows.


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