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 Post subject: New Portable Macs
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 12:54 pm 
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RIP 2012 MacBook Pro.

I'm not excited about USB C ports in place of normal sized, since I've got dozens of the latter and will need adapters for the former. I'll miss MagSafe.

The screen sounds nice.

Is the OLED bar thingy useful or is it pointless? How do almost zero-travel keys feel (honest question since I've not actually touched a contemporary MacBook)? Other thoughts?

If these things had upgradeable RAM or cost $300 less I'd be on board.

- Anonymous


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 Post subject: Re: New Portable Macs
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:22 pm 
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Of all the articles I've perused on it, this seemed the most knowledgeable…

https://www.engadget.com/2016/10/27/app ... uch-strip/

i'm skeptical though having of late seen no "improvements" from a user's standpoint, on;y Apple Sales "improvements".


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 Post subject: Re: New Portable Macs
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:30 pm 
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not having an HDMI or standard display out is really annoying. i'm sure it's very thin, but at what cost?

the 2TB SSD option on the high end 15-inchers will make some of the execs at my work happy. a few of them have completely run out of space with poor photo management and huge email archives.

the touch bar thing is really cool. i don't know how it would integrate or improve my current work flow. i think it's a good compromise for not having a full touch screen


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 Post subject: Re: New Portable Macs
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:40 pm 
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Cheapest new 15" MBP costs 2700€. That is insane if you have no other entry level MBPs on offer. Cheapest new 13" MBP costs 1700€ (skimpy SSD, RAM, and processor included).

At these prices we might finally see people simply unable to buy them and Apple just might react and give us something affordable and useful (if I had to sacrifice the touch bar for more stock RAM and higher capacity SSD and better processor it wouldn't be an issue). I can live perfectly well without retina displays too.

I think Apple has disconnected from the real world.

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BLAKE: [to Avon] Is something wrong?
AVON: It just occurred to me, that as the description of a highly sophisticated technological achievement, 'Avon's gadget works' seems to lack a certain style.


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 Post subject: Re: New Portable Macs
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:49 pm 
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MBPs have been thin enough for years. Making them thinner is just an excuse to say 'thinnest ever'. The obsession with making everyone buy adaptors is sick. Keyboards were fine as they were. The Touch Bar might be nice but it wasn't necessary at all. Let's see if the graphics cards end up frying the innards in three years.

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VILA: They missed us! Avon's gadget works!
BLAKE: [to Avon] Is something wrong?
AVON: It just occurred to me, that as the description of a highly sophisticated technological achievement, 'Avon's gadget works' seems to lack a certain style.


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 Post subject: Re: New Portable Macs
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 2:00 pm 
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I don't think it is an overreaction or overstatement to say it is very unlikely I will ever own another Macbook Pro. 'Thinocity' for it's own sake, and to the detriment of other useful features, neither interests or amuses me.


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 Post subject: Re: New Portable Macs
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 2:20 pm 
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When I see the word thin, one word comes to mind: glue. Because to make things this thin they can't use screws or magnets or anything remotely sensible. They have to glue things together.

And that makes maintenance costs go up, because its much more laborious to open up systems to actually, you know, fix them. Because I don't give a rats ass if it says Apple or Dell on the outside of the box, eventually you're going to have to open it up and fix it, there is no magic fairy dust Apple sprays inside their systems to stop them from breaking, if anything their obsession on making everything thin and quiet means their systems overheat themselves to death, which requires them to be opened up more, not less, often.

And because they're glued when when you put them back together you can't just use the screws you took out taking it apart, no, you have to clean off the old glue, apply new glue, then squinch it back together and pray the glue sets before the user starts flinging it around. More cost, which the customers have to pay for. Adhesive strips are not free, nor are they universal, so you have to stock a whole variety of strips, one for each model you're working on, which drives up the price.

I knew the 2012 would be going away eventually, now I'm waiting for the people who buy systems at work to wake up and realize they just procrastinated themselves into buying completely different more expensive units with less capacity for a student body who can't possibly live with anything smaller than the older HD-based units.


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 Post subject: Re: New Portable Macs
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 2:50 pm 
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RAM and storage should be user upgradeable. More so as Apple has a history of shipping expensive equipment with woefully poor base RAM and storage options. 'Forcing' users to purchase Apple-priced RAM should be openly questioned in the media. I think it's the only way people will understand how much they get bled by the company.

It's the end of October and still no sign of revamped iMacs. Could they really be prepping the xmas season with no new iMac offerings?

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VILA: They missed us! Avon's gadget works!
BLAKE: [to Avon] Is something wrong?
AVON: It just occurred to me, that as the description of a highly sophisticated technological achievement, 'Avon's gadget works' seems to lack a certain style.


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 Post subject: Re: New Portable Macs
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 3:22 pm 
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And my 2012 and 2013 13" MacBook Pros will live to fight another day...

Although I am debating buying an 11" MacBook Air while they're still out there.

I would have to go back to the 2002-2005 era to get back to a time where Apple just wasn't selling anything I actually wanted to buy at any price, largely because I regarded Mac OS X as unusable at that point in time.


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 Post subject: Re: New Portable Macs
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 3:44 pm 
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Avon B7 wrote:
RAM and storage should be user upgradeable. More so as Apple has a history of shipping expensive equipment with woefully poor base RAM and storage options. 'Forcing' users to purchase Apple-priced RAM should be openly questioned in the media. I think it's the only way people will understand how much they get bled by the company.

It's the end of October and still no sign of revamped iMacs. Could they really be prepping the xmas season with no new iMac offerings?
You're not only forced to buy Apple RAM, there are no DIMM slots. To upgrade RAM you have to buy a whole new system. Storage is accomplished through their pointlessly proprietary (since M.2 is the same thing in a standardized slot & form factor) PCIe SSD slot, which means you have to pay one of a couple companies that have invested substantial money to reverse engineer the slot and keep their products compatible with it as Apple revises it.

There are only two Macs with DIMM slots now. The 27" iMac and the Mac Pro. There's only two Macs with Hard Drives, and they're both iMacs, which are both glued together. The 27" iMac has a little access door for the DIMMs, no such luck for accessing storage options, have to cut & break glue to get to them.

I'm simply not going to buy an overpriced, under-powered disposable system, which is what Apple's systems have become.


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 Post subject: Re: New Portable Macs
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 4:52 pm 
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I'm unclear on this: are people actually asking for ever thinner computers and phones? Or has Apple just decided that's what we want in place of a DIMM slot and/or industry standard hard drive? Or has Apple just decided that the cost of the long term ill will generated by not using a DIMM slot and M.2 slot is more than offset by the astonishing margins the company makes forcing its users to upgrade at the time of purchase and then discard and replace (presumably with another Mac) their equipment a couple years later?

This seems like it could be selling the future short. Fortunately profits are reported quarterly so it's all good.

I could put up with the tradeoff if I weren't forced to make it to use Apple equipment, or didn't have to pay a hyper-premium price for it.

- Anonymous


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 Post subject: Re: New Portable Macs
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 5:13 pm 
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Apple seems to have taken a look at disposable equipment, which you have to throw in the trash once it outgrows its usefulness, and said to themselves "how can we make absurdly huge profits on this?" and voila, their current lineup was born. :lol:

On the plus side, at least they gave the MacBook Pro more than one USB-C port. Now you can charge it and charge your phone at the same time without having to invest in a needlessly complex charge & sync hub cable thing.


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 Post subject: Re: New Portable Macs
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 5:35 pm 
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...and to do so, all you need is a $25 adapter because Apple wants to lock you in to their (and licensed) peripherals with through the proprietary USB connector on the iPhone rather than the standard USB C ports that are spread all over the new MacBook Pros and built in to every other new phone on the planet.

The advantage is, however, that you get fewer and more expensive peripherals so we probably shouldn't complain about it.

We should probably count ourselves lucky that they didn't just decide to switch exclusively to Lightning connectors for the MBP.

- Anonymous


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 Post subject: Re: New Portable Macs
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 12:37 pm 
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It's Forbes ( :cry: ) but the article pretty much sums up what many are thinking. Then this article pretty much puts the Mac out of range of your average UK Mac user. No doubt when sales begin to plummet, Tim Cook will claim the iPad Pro is the future as there is no demand for Macs. :nothappy: :nothappy:

And lastly, Apple defends its pricing :D I've always had a soft spot for Phil but lately he's proved to be as out of touch with reality as Jonny Ive. First he tried to defend the 16GB iDevice and now he thinks we can swallow the 'Macs are quality' line. No Phil. You are, ehem, mistaken. The MBPs you just discontinued had the Apple quality stamp on them and could have easily been updated with more and better storage, newer and better processors and newer and better graphics. All with minimal retooling and competitive pricing. That didn't happen because Apple is technologically anorexic, addicted to glue and hates user upgradeable parts. Very few students will ever be able to afford a decent MBP. Very few businesses will be able to justify purchasing Macs and your average user will be stuck on prehistoric equipment fobbed off as 'current'.

Dear Tim - something's very wrong

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VILA: They missed us! Avon's gadget works!
BLAKE: [to Avon] Is something wrong?
AVON: It just occurred to me, that as the description of a highly sophisticated technological achievement, 'Avon's gadget works' seems to lack a certain style.


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 Post subject: Re: New Portable Macs
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 4:46 pm 
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Topping out at 16 GB for a "pro" machine is really malpractice. Would an extra 3mm and another 100g have left room for 32 GB RAM? I don't know, but it's very clear where Apple's priorities lie. Maybe two years from now in the next hardware update it'll support 32 GB.

- Anonymous


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 Post subject: Re: New Portable Macs
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:31 pm 
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I think this guy has it covered about right ...Youtube vid


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 Post subject: Re: New Portable Macs
PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 6:08 am 
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Great video. He didn't even go overboard. His criticism is completely balanced and fair and he touched all the right points.

What is sad is that many people are taking issue with the specs and pricing and that if the backlash is huge (and if sales falter) Apple could take the price hikes back off BUT, even then, they would still be overpriced.

And many are saying there will be no new iMacs before Christmas. That seems to be a surefire way to dent your best quarter's earnings.

and to top it all off Microsoft stole Apple's glory with the new Surface hardware.

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VILA: They missed us! Avon's gadget works!
BLAKE: [to Avon] Is something wrong?
AVON: It just occurred to me, that as the description of a highly sophisticated technological achievement, 'Avon's gadget works' seems to lack a certain style.


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 Post subject: Re: New Portable Macs
PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 3:03 pm 
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Looks like proof that Apple is trying to kill off the Macs for good… by Unpopular demand. :(


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 Post subject: Re: New Portable Macs
PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 3:34 pm 
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Forgot to say, Apple's thinner/lighter ad reminds me of the '57 Plymouth ads… Longer, Lower, Wider… & flipped to a closeup of the new enlarged Taifins with a remark of "3 years ahead of it's time"!

http://www.allpar.com/history/plymouth/ ... -1957.html

Of course by 1960, even Cadillac was cutting down the Tailfins after in 1959 showing everybody how to really do Tailfins.


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 Post subject: Re: New Portable Macs
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 1:50 am 
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I think Apple are moving laptops away from functional computers and more toward them being cool accessories for the well off fashionable crowd who like to be seen with the latest bling.


Last edited by roam on Mon Oct 31, 2016 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: New Portable Macs
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 11:19 am 
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It seems the negativity is very widespread. Just why Apple decided to make the power brick extension cord a $19 accessory for an already hugely overpriced machine is unfathomable. Can we really put it down to pure greed? How on earth did they screw up connectivity with the iPhone 7 so much? And the backlit Apple logo always had that little touch saying 'quality'. Dumping it seems so wrong. It seems the Thunderbolt ports on some machines run at different speeds. And any unnecessary thinness advantages (questionable at best) will be lost by having to cart around a bag full of dongles (plus an SD card reader for many pros). Personally I think Magsafe was a great feature. I would have kept it.

Thankfully (so sad to have to say it that way) I think these models will crash and burn very quickly as they are literally out of reach of so many people's budgets and heavily compromised, while great (but non Mac) alternatives abound. With luck, Apple will crash back down to earth just after Christmas as sales falter across the board and the stock price takes a battering.

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VILA: They missed us! Avon's gadget works!
BLAKE: [to Avon] Is something wrong?
AVON: It just occurred to me, that as the description of a highly sophisticated technological achievement, 'Avon's gadget works' seems to lack a certain style.


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 Post subject: Re: New Portable Macs
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 11:42 am 
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Quote:
Ezra Gottheil, an analyst with Technology Business Research, said: "All-in-all, I found the MacBook announcement disappointing. [It was] a meal consisting of nothing but nothing burgers."
Overall, "I'm not happy with the whole direction" of the new MacBooks, he said. "The Touch Bar looks like a gimmick. A touch-screen does make a PC more useful. The pricing suggests that Apple is retreating into generating profit from its loyal Mac base, but is not seeking to expand that base."
The new MacBooks are "attractive [computers] at a premium price. That's sort of where Apple has been in [computers] for a while, but there's less innovation in both the devices and the operating system than there once was. For a long time, Apple drove innovation in [computers], but that is no longer true."
The biggest problem is that "there's nothing about these new Macbooks that will make Windows users switch," he said.

source: eWeek

That's a very good point. These machines will only appeal to a subset of mac users. The bulk of Mac users will already be alienated just by the price but it's going to be a very hard sell getting a pro user to switch if neither RAM nor SSD are upgradeable and the 'cheaper' machines don't even have the pro bells and whistles. And of course BTOing just makes them completely unaffordable.

From a long term business perspective it seems like the Apple of long ago. A small watering hole for an ever reducing group of users. If services were supposed to be one of the new pillars of Apple income, Apple should be doing all it can to attract new users. We are at iOS 10 and it's still a long way off topping an OSX machine. iDevices won't be enough if one of the big links (OSX devices) is failing.

A nice pricing roundup here.

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VILA: They missed us! Avon's gadget works!
BLAKE: [to Avon] Is something wrong?
AVON: It just occurred to me, that as the description of a highly sophisticated technological achievement, 'Avon's gadget works' seems to lack a certain style.


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 Post subject: Re: New Portable Macs
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:37 pm 
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eWeek's summary is about where I'm at.

I wonder how much of this is down to the quest for quarterly profits: ignoring long term growth for high short-term returns? Maximizing profits this month but losing market share doesn't seem like a great long term strategy, and it's bit Apple in the past. Is Apple setting itself up to repeat that past?

I've long held that the allure of vast future iPhone profits may be a mirage because phone users are much more fickle than general purpose computer users given: the lower cost to switch platforms; the devices being replaced more frequently; and the market for high end devices being very sensitive to trendiness. Sure that annual replacement/upgrade cycle is great when Apple's riding the cash cow, but when Apple gets bucked off it will be a very hard landing. Your business can collapse in a year or two, as has happened to several large phone manufacturers as tastes shifted and the next company made the cool must-have new phone.

The Mac line isn't so sexy and exciting, but investment in it will guarantee a long term revenue stream, it has great growth potential even if that growth is slow, and it won't pull the rug out from under the company when opinions sour. On that basis I argue that appropriate support for the Mac market is vital to Apple's long term risk management.

But that strategy won't spectacularly reward the next quarterly profit report.

- Anonymous


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 Post subject: Re: New Portable Macs
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:54 pm 
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I predict we'll see a lot of these new MBPs in the "Refurb" department when sales crash.


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 Post subject: Re: New Portable Macs
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:24 pm 
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If you're into conspiracy theories, Apple is running a backdoor outlet store though IBM and Foxconn already.


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