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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 11:03 am 
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Peeps:

Nothing too much to report on my decision to buy a used MP '12 used via macoftrading . . . all seems to be going well . . . I made the decision over the '12 Mac mini because the prices were essentially the same at the time, and more issues with getting into the MM . . . compared to no problems getting into the MP to upgrade the RAM, very easy.

But, as life is about new and "different" changes happening . . . newly . . . the better half's '08ish MB is now constantly blowing the fan with the slightest use . . . very loudly . . . and the RAM is "maxed" . . . cant remember if it's 2GB or 4, possibly 4. I thought that it would be too demanding to try to run 10.9, so I upgraded it to 10.8--which she "doesn't like" . . . so she is back in 10.6.

I tried to get her to look at PC towers, and with Apple evading its tax obligations she was ***almost*** able to buy an HP Envy on sale for a very reasonable price . . . but, I guess when she tested it Windows "crashed" and so she said it "felt like a Chevy" . . . . I tried to get her to play with my LM 18 installs and she "liked that" . . . still couldn't buy the HP.

Now she is saying "I think the Mini is the right one for me, I don't have to learn a new language to use it, as I would with windows . . . " And, more or less "true" . . . her technical demands are not large. But, pricing the i5 Mini from Apple, even using the "education store" prices with applecare comes to roughly $1K . . . for a ~2.5 GHz cpu . . . and the $180 for the max. 16 GB RAM . . . which have to get max RAM from the factory now . . . . That's about 2x what the HP costs and that had "3.2GHz" processor and 12GB RAM included, etc.

So, now I'm suggesting that maybe a used MBPro circa 2012 might be "better" choice for the money . . . and she could plug in an external display to it, RAM could be upgraded as needed . . . she could use it like a MM, but, it would be "better"???? Make sense or, better choices to make elsewhere? I'm avoiding the iMac because of the potential for problems getting into it to upgrade, etc.

Appreciate any thoughts . . . .

e..


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:47 pm 
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The pre-Retina MacBook Pros are pretty nice, fairly easy to access, upgrade, etc. Even include an optical drive, which if nothing else makes it easy to add a second drive (SSD or HD) to the machine.

You may want to give opening up her '08 and removing the fan a shot. More than likely dust has built up a wall across the heatsink, which you'll only see it if you remove the fan. It should only be held in with 3 screws, probably each a different length but if you can remember which goes where for the 2 minutes it takes to do the cleaning then you're golden.

I've saved a lot of MBPs and MBs from the junk pile by simply removing the fan so I can access the dust that's gunked itself up against the heatsink.

Edit: I wouldn't recommend, under any circumstance, getting a current Mini as it exists today. You can't get anything better than a dual core in them and they use laughably pathetic dual cores. RAM is soldered onto the motherboard, no upgrading it later, which means paying through the nose for RAM from Apple.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 4:28 pm 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
The pre-Retina MacBook Pros are pretty nice, fairly easy to access, upgrade, etc. Even include an optical drive, which if nothing else makes it easy to add a second drive (SSD or HD) to the machine.


@MB:

Thanks for the reply, and comment on the MM; that's kind of what I was thinking on it. Problem with the MB is RAM spec is maxed and not meeting demands on OS's and browsers in said OSs . . . I could probably get linux running on it for her, but she wants something "new" . . . and "out with the old."

Seems like we are now locked and loaded on a MBPro . . . trying to find the "best options for the price" . . . but "there are too many choices to make" . . . defcon red shoppers we need to Buy . . . now!!!!!!!! :fishsmack:

e...


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:09 pm 
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I think you can bring an '08 up to 6GB. Or, at least, I know someone with an '08 who bought a kit from OWC and his is running with 6GB.

The 2010 and 2012 can go up to 16GB, the big difference between the two is Core2 & NVidia GPU vs. i5 & Intel GPU. The i5 is nice but the Core2 isn't much slower, but that Intel GPU... well... at least they try. :badteeth:


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:35 pm 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
I think you can bring an '08 up to 6GB. Or, at least, I know someone with an '08 who bought a kit from OWC and his is running with 6GB.

The 2010 and 2012 can go up to 16GB, the big difference between the two is Core2 & NVidia GPU vs. i5 & Intel GPU. The i5 is nice but the Core2 isn't much slower, but that Intel GPU... well... at least they try. :badteeth:


Thanks again . . . are we talking MBPro for that or MB? She has the MacBook only right now, and is thinking about the MBPro. Not sure which year or model MB it is, but I did check it on everymac awhile back and the RAM is maxed, possibly 4 it must be, because I was thinking that even though it "could go to 10.9" it can't even get to 8 GB . . . .

Could the MB be tweaked to get 6??? If so that might make it worth fiddling with, possibly . . . . I personally like to get every "mile" out of machine I can, until it "dies" . . . then revive it and flog it through several other "death" cycles until it is officially "dead or not worth reviving" . . . . She is faster about round-filing stuff . . . maybe I'll pull it out of the trash when she throws it away and put linux on it . . . . : - 0

e...


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 8:52 pm 
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Put 6GB and an SSD inside and she'll likely not mutter a peep about a new system until the keyboard, trackpad, or screen dies.

I thought you were talking about a MBP, but the MB and MBP were very close in the 2008-2010 generation - when one got changed the other usually matched it shortly after. According to OWC the '08 MacBook can take 8GB.

When my 2010 MB died I moved the HD over to a 2010 MBP and the Windows installation, after a lot of HD activity and a lot of found hardware, booted just fine without any pesky reinstall.

Not to further cloud the discussion, but Apple still sells non-Retina MBPs. They only have a single model but it's as upgradeable as ever. If she wants a new system this is probably the best option.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 6:56 am 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
Put 6GB and an SSD inside and she'll likely not mutter a peep about a new system until the keyboard, trackpad, or screen dies.

I thought you were talking about a MBP, but the MB and MBP were very close in the 2008-2010 generation - when one got changed the other usually matched it shortly after. According to OWC the '08 MacBook can take 8GB.

Not to further cloud the discussion, but Apple still sells non-Retina MBPs. They only have a single model but it's as upgradeable as ever. If she wants a new system this is probably the best option.


@MB:

Agreed, especially with the potential for 8GB RAM . . . that would be very good option . . . so many thanks for that information that would be a great way to go. Tried to check the "refurbished" store at Apple but it was "down" . . . . Anyway, "cloud" away, that was the purpose of the post; I'm still looking for ways to move away from Apple and still get some nice quality machines . . . and go for linux as the base, and then fiddle with hacking it for OSX . . . . Personally I'm thinking that the next laptop will be a PC of some type . . . 'nother couple of years . . . I'm thinking ahead, using her situation as the impetus for pre-thinking it. :whip:

e..

PS: It seems like you are saying that the MBPro line, even post 2012 the RAM is not soldered?? So, any MBPro could be a choice w/o worrying about what the RAM is--they all could be upgradeable??


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 8:02 am 
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The Retina Display models cannot be upgraded after purchase…

http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/m ... specs.html

Quote:
Standard RAM: 8 GB* Maximum RAM: 16 GB*
Details: *8 GB of RAM is onboard by default, but it could be upgraded to 16 GB at the time of purchase for an additional US$200. RAM cannot be upgraded later.


http://www.everymac.com/actual-maximum- ... acity.html


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 8:20 am 
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@BD:

OK, thanks . . . so if it were possible to find a '14 MBPro that was "non-Retina" with a "non-glare" display, then the RAM might be possible to be fiddled and/or upgraded to Max, or with guidance from OWC . . . "Beyond Max"?? Main question is whether the "2012" guideline for the last of the unsoldered RAM units is correct?????

I'm also asking because I have an 09 MBPro, and it seemed like OWC suggested it maxes at 8 GB, which I did, but possibly I could move it up to more???? like 16 GB????

e...


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:39 am 
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As far as I can tell, the '09s max at GB.

At the Apple Icon at top left>About this Mac, then click on More Info, then click on Hardware> and report...

Hardware Overview:

Model Name: iMac
Model Identifier: iMac7,1


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:54 am 
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BDAqua wrote:
As far as I can tell, the '09s max at GB.

At the Apple Icon at top left>About this Mac, then click on More Info, then click on Hardware> and report...

Hardware Overview:

Model Name: iMac
Model Identifier: iMac7,1


I have the olde MacBookPro5,4 -- looks like OWC says "8 GB" is the max . . . oh well.

But, it would be great if we can get the MB pushed up to 8 GB RAM; have to see if 2 GHz cpu is "OK" for 10.9 . . . .

e..

Edit: See on everymac that the Macbook should be fine with 10.9 . . .


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:43 pm 
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Retina MBPs cannot be upgraded but if you follow the link I provided you will see that Apple is still selling the last generation of pre-Retina MBPs. That's why I said they were non-Retina MBPs.

They aren't 2014 MBPs, those (and later models) are only available in non-upgradeable Retina flavors. The non-Retina MBPs are early 2013 or whatever odd nomenclature Apple is using. But make no mistake, you buy a new 2013 MBP from Apple now, it's new. It's not old stock. It's new. It's the only decent MBP you can buy new.

If you slap an SSD inside then bump the RAM you'll be hard pressed to note any difference between it and the Retina MBPs aside from the lack of a high-DPI screen (which isn't even noticeable to most people). Except that you can buy off-the-shelf 2.5" HD/SSDs and SO-DIMMs to upgrade it later, whenever you want.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 7:42 pm 
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@MB:

Cool. I tried to check your link but Apple wasn't loading it. But, for now it looks like we are taking your advice to service the MB and bump the RAM and push it down the road for awhile longer . . . for her. Probably try to run an external display from it to have more screen real estate.

I was just trying to figure out when the last of the "upgradable" MBPro's came out . . . it seems like now the "non-retina" options for it are just for the 13" model . . . anyway, that is down the road a bit now . . . .

I might push off the SSD choice, as it seems like shorter lifespan, but, possibly increasing the size of the regular HD might be a good choice.

I'll post back with the updates . . . .

e..


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:49 am 
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Well, not to put a kibosh on your plan, but Apple has been constantly stating that they're going to retire that model. They are planning a big refresh of Macbooks & Macbook Pros in a month, that may be when it finally gets put out to the pasture.

The only reason that model still exists is that substantial numbers of educational and business customers refuse to buy the newer models for obvious reasons. However Apple's hold over educational and business customers is forever decreasing, so their ability to influence Apple is growing weaker all the time.

With an SSD any lack of RAM is greatly minimized, because virtual memory is ridiculously fast compared to a HD. Replacing the HD with a current tech unit though would still represent a speed boost. I think HGST and/or Toshiba still make 7200rpm drives for reasonable prices, so if you went with a HD that may be an option. You could also get an SSHD which combines a small SSD with an HD. Virtual memory would still occur at HD speeds but booting would run off the SSD.

As for reliability, at this point I'd say SSD vs HD is a push. Maybe you get lucky and get one of the good HDs, but HD reliability has dropped drastically. That's why you almost never see 5 year warranties anymore on HDs.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:19 pm 
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Just musing to myself… it's one way to keep the price of used Macs at a premium! :upset:


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:53 pm 
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BDAqua wrote:
Just musing to myself… it's one way to keep the price of used Macs at a premium! :upset:


Again, thanks for the follow-up . . . so, um, where are all the cool kids playing these days? SurfacePro? Or, just find the cheapest PC and treat it like crap . . . and then buy another one, for less money than before, just to prove the point??

Or there are most excellent computers that are non-Apple, providing everything except OSX for a fraction of the price?? One thing that has bugged me about other non-Apple laptops is that they seem to be noisy when in use . . . fan blowing while just checking emails . . . seems to be across many brands . . . .

I'm not "wedded" to Apple as I once was, I have my MP to get me down Apple's road for a few more years . . . I'll try to push the '09 MBPro for as long as I can bubblegum it . . . keyboard is very nice on it . . . touchpad does a lot of things . . . . Possibly there is or will be a very good laptop model that will be accessible for RAM and HD/SSD upgrades . . . or even buying used might bring a better product for less???? Any one brand or model that is that offering right now??

e...


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:26 pm 
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99.9% of the people have no use for a computer that you can't hold to your ear while driving! :P


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:37 pm 
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"Truth" . . . is what a gal from Japan in the place where I do some work says if somebody says something "true."


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:59 pm 
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If they kill off the 13 MBP I'm inclined to start looking into laptop models that others have Hackintoshed. If Apple wants my business they can make a product I like. Apple would get lumped into the same category as domestic car manufacturers.

GM made a car that appealed to me. Best selling convertible in the nation. Then they killed it as part of their reorganization. So now we're back to nothing they make appeals to me. Sorry but nationalism doesn't trump requirements.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:28 pm 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
If they kill off the 13 MBP I'm inclined to start looking into laptop models that others have Hackintoshed. If Apple wants my business they can make a product I like. Apple would get lumped into the same category as domestic car manufacturers.

GM made a car that appealed to me. Best selling convertible in the nation. Then they killed it as part of their reorganization. So now we're back to nothing they make appeals to me. Sorry but nationalism doesn't trump requirements.


Wit ju on that . . . so when the time comes google "best laptop hackintosh" ??? Or something like that?

PS: Wife takes her MB 5,1 to local talent, and I tried to tell her they were going to say, "This model doesn't run 8 GB RAM" and, so they did . . . "The most it might do is 6, but if you try 8 it won't run" . . . so they ordered her a 4 GB to add to one of the two's . . . and of course they went for the SSD . . . anyway, it will be "better" and probably better than what she would have bought for $1K . . . for a couple hundred or so . . . . We could always order another 4 GB and put it in later for the test . . . . That's the latest on the MB front . . . .

e..


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:56 am 
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Well you'll want to go off a list of hardware someone else has created, same as when building a Hackintosh, the difference is that the laptop is basically the entire list.

Example:
http://wiki.osx86project.org/wiki/index ... /Portables

Obviously you can google around to find lists on other sites.

You'll probably end up picking up old stock or refurbished systems since the newest systems are the ones that nobody will have done the work to support yet.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:48 am 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
Well you'll want to go off a list of hardware someone else has created, same as when building a Hackintosh, the difference is that the laptop is basically the entire list.

Example:
http://wiki.osx86project.org/wiki/index ... /Portables

Obviously you can google around to find lists on other sites.

You'll probably end up picking up old stock or refurbished systems since the newest systems are the ones that nobody will have done the work to support yet.


@MB:

Thanks for the link . . . I don't mind "old stock" . . . . I'll see how things go . . . I have the "tonymacx86" site bookmarked somewhere, just haven't been there for awhile . . . . Probably that will be the "next" project . . . get some "experience" hackintoshing . . . for "fun."

e..


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:42 pm 
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I was hoping tony would have a list of systems but everything I saw was for towers. I might have missed it in my short search.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:58 pm 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
I was hoping tony would have a list of systems but everything I saw was for towers. I might have missed it in my short search.


@MB:

From my last visit there, the site is "complicated" and it does require "time" to get through the various links to the data . . . but, I'm fairly sure that they have some laptop listings . . . .

e..


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:55 pm 
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http://protechlists.com/hackintosh-laptops/

http://picknotebook.com/blog/best-hackintosh-laptop/

Cheapest best…

https://www.reddit.com/r/hackintosh/com ... sh_laptop/


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