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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:19 pm 
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Based on a discussion at my last company meeting a few weeks ago, only two people, out of about a hundred, have 4K TVs at home. They were both high level executives.

I suspect you've been done in by the overly optimistic tales found online about how 4K is the best thing since having an onion on your belt. People with more money than common sense are buying them, yes, but there really aren't all that many of them around


You won't notice it really during web browsing unless a flash plugin gets activated for a web based game. It's when CPU intensive tasks occur that access RAM that you'll see the slowdowns, and when they happen, they happen.

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[Edit: Follow-up question, App Store is stalking me to do the 10.11 upgrade . . . and was thinking about keeping a partition at 10.9 since that is where I think I'm keeping my MBPro with the maxed 8GB . . . so for any "collaboration" between the two computers being able to have the MP at 10.9 as well was the idea.

And, then as I have on my MBPro, I was going to cut out a couple partitions, one for potential OSX upgrades . . . and another one for playing with linux. But, since I haven't set up any applications for this version of 10.9, I'm wondering if just moving this partition up to 10.11??

I thought that the Macofall trades store listed 10.11 as the "max upgrade" for this computer? Or it could go up as they come along? I like 10.9 on my MBPro, it's fine browsers are "supported" . . . but I have the original 10.6 system on partition one as the "native" system . . . but, other than word processing exchange between the two computers I don't know if having one at 10.11 and the other at 10.9 makes any difference?

Or, whether 10.11 is the "max upgrade" for the 2012 MPro? Is El Capitan . . . the "captain" . . . and "better" than 10.9?? Or, I can wait awhile?]


As noted earlier in the thread, you can download the 10.11 installer now and get 10.11.5 (10.11.6 is on the way, which will likely be the final version for 10.11). However if you want to put off updating to 10.11, just download the installer, and when it auto-opens after download just quit out of it via CMD-Q and if you have a USB drive of at least 8 GB in size, you can use this method to create a USB 10.11 installer that can boot the Mac when you're ready to update.

As an added benefit, once you download the installer once, you'll have access to that version of OS X for as long as Apple keeps them on their servers (they still have Lion available for download if you had it "purchased" at some point while it was still available to the public).

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 12:32 am 
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Once 10.12 ships 10.9 will no longer be supported, at which point you should either remove your 10.9 systems from the internet or not use a single resource that's OS dependent on them (the system webkit is used by safari, mail, and many other programs that need to render html)... or upgrade to a supported OS.

Just to reiterate what ST said, you should "buy" 10.11 by downloading the app now, before Apple removes it in favor of 10.12, at which point it will no longer be available except to people who previous "purchased" it. This purchase will be tied to your apple id.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 8:14 am 
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@ST & MB:

Thanks for the advice . . . I'll have to look around to find the instructions on creating a boot-able USB drive of the installer. The difference between one iteration of OSX and another is sometimes nebulous, and other times glaring . . . perhaps in different areas . . . moving "ahead" on one aspect, but, "behind" on another . . . . I was running 10.6 on my MBPro until the beginning of this year, with FF as the browser of choice I never noticed the lack of "support" for it from Pa Apple . . . it was "fine" and did what I needed to do . . . .

And, one of the nice things about linux is the "live DV" which offers a "pre-tastiing" before install, for which OSX doesn't. And, that is one of the reasons I did the partitioning of the HD, so I have 10.9 in one partition and the next one has the "upgrade" . . . . Another choice I have now would be to have another int HD . . . rather than cutting up the one, have more int HDs . . . . It's only money . . . .

e..


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:26 am 
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este.el.paz wrote:
Thanks for the advice . . . I'll have to look around to find the instructions on creating a boot-able USB drive of the installer.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201372


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:39 am 
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mc68k wrote:
este.el.paz wrote:
Thanks for the advice . . . I'll have to look around to find the instructions on creating a boot-able USB drive of the installer.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201372


@mc68k:

Thanks for the link . . . tried starting the 10.11 download yesterday, but at some point it was showing "10 hrs" to finish the 6.2 GB download . . . usually my DSL is roughly 1 GB per hour or more . . . so it was slowing down the longer it was "getting" it . . . . So it might take a few days to get the installer.

I have the USB drive "erased" and ready for the installer process . . . . I've done it with 10.8 & 10.9 . . . but it seems like it "changes" a bit each time . . . the 10.9 process seemed very "finicky" to get done . . . . We'll see how the 10.11 deal goes . . . when we get there.

e...


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:05 am 
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este.el.paz wrote:
at some point it was showing "10 hrs" to finish the 6.2 GB download . . . usually my DSL is roughly 1 GB per hour or more . . . so it was slowing down the longer it was "getting" it . . . . So it might take a few days to get the installer.
:snail:


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:37 am 
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@roam: Yep . . . fortunately I'm not in a hurry for the upgrade . . . .

@et al: If someone could remind what the name of the program that shows the cpu as a color visual . . . if it is available for Intel Mac . . . that would be great, or easier than searching through the posts to find it. I added it sometime after I put the OWC Mercury Extreme 1.2 GHz processor in the G4 ST . . . or possibly before, to show how much cpu was being used . . . as we were "running in" the electron tracks?? It shows less use as "blue" . . . question is will that work in 10.9 or only PPC???

I'd be curious to see how that would show the Quad-8 and cpu usage . . . the 10.9 Activity Monitor is not so "visual" as the 10.6 is . . . with the pie charts and so forth . . . .

e...


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 11:29 am 
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Hopefully your version is showing up under "previous purchases" in the app store now, otherwise you kind of should be in a hurry since 10.11 won't be available forever.

Looks like 10.12 is bumping up the system requirements a little, only 2009 and newer systems are supported in it.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:52 pm 
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este.el.paz wrote:
I'd be curious to see how that would show the Quad-8 and cpu usage . . . the 10.9 Activity Monitor is not so "visual" as the 10.6 is . . . with the pie charts and so forth . . . .

Yes, they dropped a lot of those visuals out. No more seperate window for CPU processes, but it can still be seen but now only shown minimised in the dock, with Activity Monitor, View, Dock Icon, Show CPU Usage.

MenuMeters can offer the same, but that's even smaller sitting up on the menubar. I use Menumeters just to supply a visual of Network Activity but it can show CPU cores too.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 4:05 pm 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
Hopefully your version is showing up under "previous purchases" in the app store now, otherwise you kind of should be in a hurry since 10.11 won't be available forever.

Looks like 10.12 is bumping up the system requirements a little, only 2009 and newer systems are supported in it.


@MB:

Finished the 10.11 download this am . . . made a usb flash installer for it . . . partitioned up my disk and installed 10.11 in the 2nd partition . . . so that is "done." . . . like everything, some things perhaps better; the dock icons and window buttons are even cheesier than they were sometime ago . . . I think 10.9 does a better job on windows management/visuals . . . couldn't get one of my verizon email addys to input into 10.11 Mail . . . and trying to launch Safari with my still 4GB RAM . . . got the spinning BB going . . . so, I'm back in FF . . . . Have a third partition for what might be the final OSX upgrade . . . and I have one cut out for Linux Mint . . . . Next stop I suppose will be for the additional RAM . . . takin it to something more . . . .

@roam: Thanks for the thoughts, yep I know about the dock icon showing the cpu . . . but, didn't know about menu meter, might check it . . . that's not the name of what I have in the G4 . . . haven't been back to it yet . . . still so many things that seem "fresh" and new on the MPro . . . .

e...


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 5:45 pm 
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Personally I don't use 10.11, I use 10.10, since rootless mode breaks too much software I use (and the choice of what directories they protect vs. don't protect seems weird, even arbitrary, to me). But if you never bought 10.10 you can't readily download that.

It's the old odd OS even OS curse that Apple's been having for the past few revisions. Odd numbered ones have problems, even numbered ones fixes those problems.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:54 pm 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
Personally I don't use 10.11, I use 10.10, since rootless mode breaks too much software I use (and the choice of what directories they protect vs. don't protect seems weird, even arbitrary, to me). But if you never bought 10.10 you can't readily download that.

It's the old odd OS even OS curse that Apple's been having for the past few revisions. Odd numbered ones have problems, even numbered ones fixes those problems.


Well, unless it's a bug, 10.12 doubles down on the nannying and entirely removes the Anywhere option from Gatekeeper for software installations, further limiting your ability to customize the computer to your needs.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:04 pm 
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It certainly makes it harder: the option is still there, but you have to disable Gatekeeper...probably something like sudo spctl --master-disable if I recall correctly (I'm probably a bit off on that, but one way or another the old behavior can currently be brought back).

- Anonymous


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:37 am 
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Squishy Tia wrote:
MonkeyBoy wrote:
Personally I don't use 10.11, I use 10.10, since rootless mode breaks too much software I use (and the choice of what directories they protect vs. don't protect seems weird, even arbitrary, to me). But if you never bought 10.10 you can't readily download that.

It's the old odd OS even OS curse that Apple's been having for the past few revisions. Odd numbered ones have problems, even numbered ones fixes those problems.


Well, unless it's a bug, 10.12 doubles down on the nannying and entirely removes the Anywhere option from Gatekeeper for software installations, further limiting your ability to customize the computer to your needs.


@MB: Oh . . . now you tell me . . . that you don't use 11; well I didn't "pay" for 10.9 . . . I did pay for 10.8 . . . this download of 10.11 was also "free" upgrade to the install of 10.9 . . . and as far as 10.9 goes, to me it's "fine" . . . and so far the main thing I don't like about 11 is the wan graphics in the icons . . . I likes my icons crisp . . . not fuzzy like they are in 11. Perhaps I could go to the main Apple downloads page and try to find a spare copy of 10 lying around. Lately all I've heard from all my fellow apple users is that ****all*** of the OSs are "meh" . . . ???? They improve one or two things while breaking one or two things, etc.

@ST: Wow, on the "gatekeeper" being removed . . . I definitely need to get other stuff than what is offered by the App Store.

Anonymous wrote:
It certainly makes it harder: the option is still there, but you have to disable Gatekeeper...probably something like sudo spctl --master-disable if I recall correctly (I'm probably a bit off on that, but one way or another the old behavior can currently be brought back).

- Anonymous


@anonymous: Appreciate that post, might come in handy. This would be like the old days of OSX where the discussion group would offer hacks to help fix broken stuff . . . some of it rather involved, I recall BD helping me do something to modify 10.3 so that it would "work" . . . and that was back when the OSs were $129.99 or such . . . . In that sense I haven't had to do anything under the hood to get some basic function going for quite awhile . . . . I definitely like having a spare partition to do installs on rather than blindly "upgrading" into the next great offering . . . . :fishsmack:

e...


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:32 am 
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I recall BD helping me do something to modify 10.3 so that it would "work" .

You were somebody else back then… right!? :)


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:44 am 
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BDAqua wrote:
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I recall BD helping me do something to modify 10.3 so that it would "work" .

You were somebody else back then… right!? :)


Yep . . . I was so naive . . . trusting everything "Apple" would be blessed by the hand of God, etc . . . I've "grown" up a fair amount since then . . . . But, same "screen" name . . . so in that sense, the "same" person . . . . : - )

Looking at choices of RAM . . . looks like two sticks of 4GB 1333 MHz . . . stacked behind the two 2GB 1066 . . . would give me 12 GB . . . for $46 something. A little more than the 1066 offering, but potentially better if I ever do a cpu upgrade . . . .

Still exploring 10.11 . . . Mail seems to be more finicky with each upgrade . . . good thing I could just reboot and go back to 9 . . . or in a few days . . . possibly, linux mint . . . .


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:00 am 
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Maybe install Linux in VirtualBox...

http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads

Then no reboot needed!?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:29 am 
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BDAqua wrote:
Maybe install Linux in VirtualBox...

http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads

Then no reboot needed!?


Not a bad thought . . . gets around the whole lack of Intel "fan control" and subsequent "heat" issues while running linux in intel macs . . . . Last time I checked VB it seemed very "obtuse" in terms of GUI usage . . . ease of handling . . . of course you get what you pay for.

The nice thing about this HD . . . I could do both . . . . The linux community is somewhat "purist" . . . and doing the "full install" has a higher echelon of "cred" than doing virtual . . . but, then, most of them are not running macintosh and dealing with some of those technical issues that seemed to have been missed in the kernel . . . like recognizing that there are fans . . . and so forth.

e..


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:15 pm 
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@et al:

I'm back in the 10.9 partition, for comparo . . . it has the crispy dock icons . . . graphics seem tidier . . . might stay awhile in 10.9 . . . unless I can find 10.10 . . .

But, question of the day . . . in SU there is Security Update 2016-003 listed . . . looking over the items included it seems like only a couple of them relate to 10.9 . . . most of them seem to be fixes for 10.11 . . . where stuff seems to be "busted" . . . and so the question is whether I should take time to do that update in 10.9 . . . or just do it when I'm back in 10.11 and see if it feels "better" when I get back there???

Any thoughts??

e..


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:38 pm 
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este.el.paz wrote:
But, question of the day . . . in SU there is Security Update 2016-003 listed . . . looking over the items included it seems like only a couple of them relate to 10.9 . . . most of them seem to be fixes for 10.11 . . .

I had the same thought, noting that there were only about 5 bug fixes for 10.9, a few for 10.10 and the great bulk for 10.11 as they are still building it.
I was in two minds whether it would have any real world impact but decided to do it anyway as it may be the last update before 10.12 shoots across the sky. WZZZ thinks there may be one more update to come before 10.9 is retired.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 9:06 pm 
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If you're going to use 10.9 to connect to the internet you should keep it current. If you're not going to connect it to the internet then you can do it or not do it. The instant you connect to sources outside your network you're exposing your system to the internet, at which point you need to keep it current.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 7:18 am 
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Oh . . . well . . . yeah, I don't really "connect" with the internet . . . much . . . . But, I have now been told . . . I guess there shouldn't be too much resistance to it, other than the time . . . I don't have rEFInd installed anywhere yet . . . so it won't be broken by the SU.

e..


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:08 am 
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If you don't keep it current you should disconnect all network cables and disable wifi.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 1:40 pm 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
If you don't keep it current you should disconnect all network cables and disable wifi.


Yes . . . I'm doing that now . . . I'm leaving the interweb . . . the EU . . . the US . . . all behind . . . cutting all ties with society and interweb interaction . . . . :bonk:

Well, truthfully, I did plan to do the SU in 10.9 based upon your recent advice . . . because I will probably be hanging with 10.9 as the main squeeze for awhile . . . . But, possibly over in my MBPro I upgraded it to 9 only in January . . . and I hang out on an open wifi at work, because the in house network is so bad . . . I don't think I've done the SU for that system . . . and, so far, either because it's Mac or just a lack of interest, I haven't had a plague of locusts on my system . . . nor hacks . . . nor scripts . . . .

But, then, I'm not visiting dating or porn sites and other such stuff . . . or chess web sites . . . ten years back it seemed like when I went to chess.com . . . or whatever the german chess web site is . . . that I seemed to "pick up" more spam emails and such. And, on the G4 of course I was running 10.4 and now 10.5 . . . which are "non-current" . . . . I think in my neighborhood I'm like the last of the low class red necks . . . and the billionaires that are living around me on my network couldn't waste their time messing with me . . . . Of course, once I started running "dnetc" I noticed a huge uptick in spam emails on that email addy I use for them . . . so, somebody is tracking me . . . possibly Chinese spies . . . trying to get my goat on the interweb . . . . It probably would be worse for me if I used Windows . . . but . . . I don't . . . . :coffee:

I'll probably be ordering some extra RAM in a bit . . . . Also, on the dnetc front, I've run the x86 version a few times, firing on all 8 . . . hoping to kick out some stats, and it does run them faster, but now the new threshold is something like 152 stats before it kicks them to the server . . . looks like it will take the same 2 hour running time as it took for my G4 to do 24 stats . . . ????
e..

[Edit: So I did the SU in 10.9, and it auto-restarted me back into 10.11 . . . so I thought I'd just run the SU there, since it makes more sense to do it for 10.11 . . . but, it wasn't list in the app store?? Does that update go to the mobo or something so that the multiple systems running on the machine all get the update?? Or, in the app store you only get one shot at it and now 10.11 is forever "non-current"???]


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 5:52 pm 
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It really doesn't matter what sites you visit, any of them could be compromised by intruders to install malware on all visitors systems, any of them with ads can have malware run as an ad. The only chance you have is to remain current.

That's why TenFourFox is a good thing, it's current. When you're talking PPC you're also talking about a completely different processor that won't allow Intel-specific exploits to run, the data/instructions/memory is literally flipped 180 degrees from Intel to PPC, so even if they use a Firefox specific exploit to get into TFF the chance of the payload executing is quite small unless they're targeting the vanishingly few up-to-date PPC systems on the internet by making the payload use PPC instructions. Of course Flash and Java allow cross-platform exploits to run because they simply execute their exploit in that environment, which runs on all platforms equally, which is why TFF disabled plugins ages ago.

You can use system preferences startup disk to choose which partition to boot from. That's the only way to make the boot device stick, holding down option at startup works for temporarily booting off any device capable of booting.

If you just installed 10.11 then you likely have all the current updates installed. They're installed in exactly the same way as under 10.9 - app store, updates.


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