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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:25 am 
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Hi all,

Brand new to the forum, lead here from Apple's forum under the advice of BDAqua, and am hoping I could get some help with my Power Mac G3, which is somewhat poorly at the moment.

It's a revision B blue/white, 400MHz and currently runs with 512MB of RAM.

From what I have read, it looks like the logic board in my system is a replacement and, as such, it doesn't have, or has 'lost' its serial number, as both OS 9 (9.2.2) and OS X (10.4) have always failed to recognize it. I downloaded the Blank Board Serializer tool, version 3T106, and burned it to a CD. On attempting to boot the CD, however, the system looks like it's about to do something before crashing out into Open Firmware, with a worrying error - "No PMU or SMU found, error -2539" (or something like that), as well as the same error number to two other errors about some form of environment variable. I can't see why this error appears, as the CUDA seems to be operating normally under all other circumstances, such as when using Mac OS - power saving operations are working as normal.

I was advised to search for MacTest Pro 7.5.2 for G3 machines, however Google searches only bring up those fake torrent/download sites that insert the search string into fake file listings. I have been pointed to this forum and am wondering if anyone could help out - if someone could provide a working link to the MacTest version specified, I would be quite grateful. Also, I'd like to know if anyone has had the same error while doing the same thing - I can search and search, and nothing seems to come up - it seems like I am the only one getting this error with this particular tool.

If it's any help, I also get "No address property found" printed twice every time (as far as I know) I go into Open Firmware, and can't find anything on this either

Thanks very much

PS: Would anyone here be able to tell me whether the MacTest Pro 'suite' (?) has tests just for the CUDA? It would be good to get a definite answer to whether there's something wrong, rather than just no for an answer and nothing else


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 11:23 am 
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Welcome aboard lyalljohn ! :welcome:
I can't tell what it tests, check your eMail for clues. :)


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:11 am 
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It's all come crashing down again... :(

I eventually found the tool, ended up with the wrong version, found the right version for my machine, was hoping to see if I could get it to work once I had reinstalled the system software. That was all good and fine until I was putting the finishing touches to the OS 9 side of things - one restart and a memory module choosing to go AWOL later, the outcome is a hard drive that is now junk as far as I can see... urgh!

I am quite literally almost out of time to be fiddling with this thing - within the next few weeks, I'm moving into halls for university and I'll have to be restrictive with what I take with me (you can only fit so much into a small room!), and with uni taking most of my time, it'd probably be for the best not to take it with me, although one good thing about that is the fact that I could come back to it having finished this year with, hopefully, and possibly quite literally, a few pennies to spend on some goodies to get it working properly, or at least mostly properly again


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:19 am 
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So, you got it OK then?

RAM can be a problem on the G3s as OS9, unlike OSX will try to run with marginal or even bad RAM… how many sticks are in it?

Is it PC100 or PC133? Is it maybe PC RAM?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 7:47 am 
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I forget the results of the NVRAM reset. :(

Don Archibald Don Archibald Sep 6, 2006 10:25 PM in response to rainforest Level 10 (101,425 points)
Sep 6, 2006 10:25 PM in response to rainforest
Hi, rainforest -

Try doing a reset of NVRAM -

- Start the computer and immediately hold down Command-Option-O-F

- When the computer starts it should open into a prompt screen (Open Firmware).

- Press Return, you will see OK.

- Type reset-nvram include the dash, here and below.

- Press Return

- Type set-defaults

- Press Return

- Type reset-all

- Press Return

The system should restart. If not, try typing exit or shutdown, or you can manually restart the system.

Note - some machines may return "unknown word" in response to the reset-nvram instruction; if that happens, try init-nvram instead.

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/63 ... 0&tstart=0

I don't know if you've seen these or if it'd help at all, but…

PCI Bus Binding to Open Firmware

http://www.o3one.org/hwdocs/openfirmwar ... nt_2_1.pdf

http://osxbook.com/book/bonus/ancient/w ... _boot.html

http://www.firmworks.com/QuickRef.html


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:52 am 
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B&W G3s were PC100 RAM from what I remember.

If the motherboard is damaged you probably could pick up a replacement board on eBay. Searching for G3 motherboard yielded two results fairly near the top that should be a drop-in replacement.

I remember when my G3 card, or more correctly the software for the G3 card, on my 9600 went sideways and corrupted my OS installation. That was the final straw that made me create a small bootable partition on an external drive with diskwarrior and other repair/recovery software on it.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:07 pm 
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Yes, it was PC100, but as I recall, most of the PC100 of the time was problematic, at least on Macs… PC133 running at PC100 fared much better


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:21 pm 
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As I recall it was the information in the SPDs that was problematic. Without a fully populated SPD the DIMM would have problems.

Funny thing, I looked up this tool recently simply because I remembered it could rewrite an SPD:
https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/5714/dimm-first-aid

But of course it did me absolutely no good because the DIMM I needed to rewrite was DDR3 (the slowest timing in the SPD was 133Mhz faster than the fastest timing the target system would work with). Nostalgia made me look it up.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 8:06 am 
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I remember that tool now that you mention it.

I was hoping there'd be some ideas on the OP's problem, but seems the B&W users are few & far between these fays.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:53 pm 
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I only have a passing familiarity with the B&W G3s, since I only helped people using them and never actually owned one myself. They're kind of a bridge between the Beige G3s and the G4s that followed, with a little heaping helping of tech from both.

I suspect his serializer tool is probably one meant for later units, like G4s. Replacing the board would solve his serial# problem since the new board should have a number in it.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 3:37 am 
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BDAqua wrote:
So, you got it OK then?


It took a bit of time - I found a torrent with multiple tools, however on logging into my email through Outlook (I use Thunderbird as it keeps track of the other addresses), I found the email you were talking about in the first reply - it had fallen within the spam folder, and Thunderbird hadn't thought to tell me there was an unread message there

BDAqua wrote:
RAM can be a problem on the G3s as OS9, unlike OSX will try to run with marginal or even bad RAM… how many sticks are in it?

Is it PC100 or PC133? Is it maybe PC RAM?


I've noticed that...

Sometimes OS 9 throws an error that it's memory test has failed, so it essentially disables the memory module in question. The current memory configuration is 3x PC100 modules plus 1x PC133 module. The only module I know for certain came from a PC is the 133, a 256MB module that has a fault that has gotten worse over time, although this isn't the first time problems with this module in particular have trashed my OS install/hard drives. It's the one OS 9 disables when the test fails.

The system came with 256MB when bought from eBay (1x 128, 2x 64), as far as I know the original module is a Hyundai labelled module with a date code similar to the system's components (9910), although the extra 128MB from the two 64s are also from around the same time (Microtech modules, however the markings on the chips resemble the markings on the NVRAM chip, dated 9914)

MonkeyBoy wrote:
I suspect his serializer tool is probably one meant for later units, like G4s. Replacing the board would solve his serial# problem since the new board should have a number in it.


I was a bit skeptical about it - the readme only specifies that it will work on Intel and PPC systems - no specific processor requirement - perhaps it is too new for my system. I found an older version but I think it was a duff image - the system read the disc as if there wasn't a system folder there/the folder that was there was copied from another disk by means other than doing a full on Disk Copy (which would presumably result in no boot record or whatever the Mac equivalent is being copied to the disk)


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 8:24 am 
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Absolutely all the Apple supplied PC66 in my Beiges & PC100 in my iMacs, AGPs, & QSes was either flaky from the start or went bad within months… replaced with RAM that was PC133/100/66 compliant from OWC.

A System folder from a CD won't work for an HD & vice versa.

Email me for more info. :)


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 8:45 am 
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Then presumably the Hyundai module that was in the system was provided by Apple - I've had problems in the past with that module too, bordering on quite catastrophic - several times the boot cycle has been rough, I go and switch the system off, open it to find the innards of the system awfully warm for having not done anything memory or CPU intensive, and also to find the module in question on the verge of going up in smoke/melting had I kept the system running any longer in these circumstances


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:16 am 
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It does seem that RAM is your problem… I had Mac booting problems so bad they would only boot to the AHT Disc once in awhile, then LOL the extended RAM test would report good, but after replacing the RAM everything was fine.

I think 99.99& of OS9 crashing problems were simply poor RAM, multitudes complained about the stability of OS9, but with food RAM & a month or two of Conflict Catcher I could run literally 100s of Extensions & Control Panels with zero crashing, maybe having to reboot once a month to reclaim Free Memory. :)


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 6:32 am 
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It certainly looks that way... I really haven't had any major problems in the past under 9.2.2 - the worst I've had is that some applications just crash out of nowhere/won't start up properly, whilst some just required a force quit, others resulted in the system session slowly shredding itself to pieces and being unable to recover without restarting, that was at least until I got MacsBug, which seems to do a better job at throwing the system back into shape than a standard force quit ever did.

I've seen worse with OS X - some of the memory problems I've suffered with it have resulted in the session not only gradually tearing itself to shreds, eventually into a kernel panic, but also sometimes the system files corrupting themselves (that's probably why my current full installation is inoperable). Currently, the problem with (seemingly) the memory physically ruining the system's hard drive has been the worst so far with OS 9. Lucky it was a new installation it crashed with in this case, rather than trashing everything on my current OS 9/ruined OS X drive. That failure is the reason the system is on the back burner for now, I really don't trust the memory I have now with all my files present, and I don't have the time or money to spend on the system at present.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 6:54 am 
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OK… good luck with school! :coffee:


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