XYMer's Home away from Home

When http://bbs.xlr8yourmac.com is down (i.e. always)
It is currently Sun May 28, 2017 2:20 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 181 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 2:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:01 pm
Posts: 759
BDAqua wrote:
Yes, could;d be the battery quite easily.

Might be time to replace the PRAM Battery, 5 years is close to their lifespan, far less if ever without AC power, & can cause strange startup problems...

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Newer%20 ... AA36VPRAM/  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroly ... tion_rules

http://www.murata.com/support/faqs/prod ... /char/0006



Cool, at work . . . have to check over this later . . . . But, I think that PRAM battery is OEM . . . so a tad over "5 years" . . . . :coffee:

e.e.p


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 8:13 pm
Posts: 9248
Location: Caught between the moon and NYC
As far as why things would work their way loose, heat/cool (expansion/contract) cycles can work parts loose. Though nothing beats some serious vibrations and the occasional nudge/whack.

The battery certainly could use some TLC. Sometimes I've had better luck pulling the battery out completely while waiting for the new battery to arrive, that can bring a system back to life for a little while, although it willl lose its time/date/sanity the instant power is lost.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:49 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:01 pm
Posts: 759
MonkeyBoy wrote:
As far as why things would work their way loose, heat/cool (expansion/contract) cycles can work parts loose. Though nothing beats some serious vibrations and the occasional nudge/whack.

The battery certainly could use some TLC. Sometimes I've had better luck pulling the battery out completely while waiting for the new battery to arrive, that can bring a system back to life for a little while, although it willl lose its time/date/sanity the instant power is lost.


@MB:

"We" might have discussed this before in this thread, but, given that I've at some point fiddled and or jiggled some parts and the problem remains; then, if the battery could use some TLC, is that an item that owc or macsales stocks? Or the part number is listed in the everymac profile of the computer? Then the question might be where the instructions be found to properly remove/install the PRAM battery might ???

e.e.p.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:54 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 8:13 pm
Posts: 9248
Location: Caught between the moon and NYC
Yes, OWC stocks the PRAM battery. Radio Shack used to stock the PRAM battery, although it was listed for nearly $20 the last time I saw one there, so I haven't been back (might still be in stock, might be a different price).

Hmm. Looks like Amazon has some too. You can even get overcharged for the OWC battery! I wonder if they just place an order with OWC and ship the order to you when you place an order with them? :lol:

As for instructions... it's really easy. There's usually a plastic clip that goes over the battery that is easy to tug off, then you just flip flop batteries and reinstall the clip. As shown in the instructions, some of the systems don't even have a clip.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:01 pm
Posts: 759
MonkeyBoy wrote:
Yes, OWC stocks the PRAM battery. Radio Shack used to stock the PRAM battery, although it was listed for nearly $20 the last time I saw one there, so I haven't been back (might still be in stock, might be a different price).

Hmm. Looks like Amazon has some too. You can even get overcharged for the OWC battery! I wonder if they just place an order with OWC and ship the order to you when you place an order with them? :lol:

As for instructions... it's really easy. There's usually a plastic clip that goes over the battery that is easy to tug off, then you just flip flop batteries and reinstall the clip. As shown in the instructions, some of the systems don't even have a clip.


@MB: Appreciate the links . . . be a couple of days before I'll have the time to pull the computer out from behind the MacPro . . . . Most of it is straightforward, but, as far as the battery in the G4 goes, the last time I had to pull the battery out to regain control of the computer after the new eBay cpu took over the system and trashed all of the installs, when I tried to remove the "clip" it broke . . . so there must have been something more to it than simply flexing the holder as it usually is popping batteries in and out . . . it was "more complicated" . . . . The battery seemed to be stable after I put it back in . . . prolly wouldn't stay in if I turned the computer up-side-down . . . .

Back to it here when I figure out if anything changes . . . seems like you are saying that Amazon has the best prices for PowerMac G4 PRAM batteries??

e.e.p.

Edit: Looks like OWC sales has the battery available for less than Amazon, and a couple posts on the Amazon page show complaints of short life and/or Chinese knockoffs being sent out . . . And, of course the OWC page shows all of the compatible machines and that does include the PM 3,3--it also says that on some older machines the screen "may go black to indicate a dead battery" . . . although it doesn't say that other items like the op drive also stop working . . . since the battery is long overdue for lifespan I could just order it before bothering to mess with anything . . . we'll see. The only other possibility is if the rambunctious young cat we have decided to wedge himself between the back of the PM and an old printer . . . then ***maybe*** the video cable was tweaked . . . but, power cord is still working???


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 3:56 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 8:13 pm
Posts: 9248
Location: Caught between the moon and NYC
Up until Macs went Intel the PRAM batteries were standardized to that battery. Pre-G3 systems mostly used this battery but sometimes used other oddball batteries. The 6400/6500 used something weird, and there were a few other oddball models that used different batteries for only god knows why. As I recall this same battery was used by the Macintosh II, so it's been around quite a while.

The clip sometimes needed a fingernail to detach it from one side. Depends on how many times it had been removed and reinstalled. After a few years they tended to be rather easy to remove. But that's assuming the Mac was in the care of someone who actually knew what they were doing and weren't the kind of Mac users who think the laws of physics don't apply to Macs (Dust? Macs don't get dust. My fan's just running really loud. The Genius said that was a sign I needed a new computer). For the most part the clip is optional, the battery will stay installed unless the system is moved or otherwise jostled hard enough to pop it out.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:52 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:01 pm
Posts: 759
Latest update:

So, before I bother to move the computers to access the side panels I just went ahead and first ordered the battery from OWC . . . $3.65 . . . . Seemed like posters on the Amazon site were saying the "saft" batteries were ch**ese knock-offs that died in a few months . . . since the OEM battery has lasted for roughly 17 years I thought I'd go with something that might live longer than a few months ??? :bonk:

Anything to be aware of on installing the pram battery other than I guess I will have to re-set the PRAM and/or the clock?? Click out/click in??

Then, thinking that the shipping cost would be more than the battery I ordered another set of two 4GB RAM for the MacPro . . . which should bring me to a very heady 16GB of RAM . . . wowza . . . . I can already notice that the "'12" aka '10 model MacPro quad-core with 8 GB RAM is already "faster" zipping around the desktop than my '09 MBPro C2D with 8 GB RAM . . . this jump in wrap drive capability should be, um, mind-blowing . . . .

And, the price has dropped down quite a bit on what I guess is now "old" RAM sticks?? I was having a hard time figuring if it was the same item . . . but I just "re-ordered" what I had previously bought about a year back . . . . Using usps the shipping for "7 days" was just $1.99 . . . can't complain about that . . . should be here sometime next week . . . . I'll post back with the continuing saga . . . as it saga's along . . . .

e.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:20 am 
Online
Benevolent Dictator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:03 am
Posts: 14424
Just note the Polarity when you remove the old Battery, may or not have to rest PRAM, but safe to do, Clock should reset itself from the Internet.

Should be smooth with 16 GB! :D


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:01 pm
Posts: 759
BDAqua wrote:
Just note the Polarity when you remove the old Battery, may or not have to rest PRAM, but safe to do, Clock should reset itself from the Internet.

Should be smooth with 16 GB! :D


Thanks. I went into replacing the cpu on the G4 thinking that it would be "bolt on" and reboot, but apparently it was more "complicated" . . . than that; so now I'm assuming that there are secret techniques for everything in the machine . . . ?? :fishsmack:

e


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 3:25 pm 
Online
Benevolent Dictator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:03 am
Posts: 14424
The Battery holder can be fragile, so use care removing & inserting. :snail:

(Never hurts to ask).


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 4:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:01 pm
Posts: 759
BDAqua wrote:
The Battery holder can be fragile, so use care removing & inserting. :snail:

(Never hurts to ask).


Hehehe . . . already dun busted it during the cpu upgrade snafu . . . . :whip:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 4:25 pm 
Online
Benevolent Dictator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:03 am
Posts: 14424
Let me backdate that then! :fishsmack:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 4:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:01 pm
Posts: 759
BDAqua wrote:
Let me backdate that then! :fishsmack:


alrighty then . . . consider it "retro-read" . . . but retroly ignored . . . . One of my old construction mottos based upon observation of others was "install first; then read instructions" . . . I have tried to adopt that attitude into my computer endeavors . . . .


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 5:08 pm 
Online
Benevolent Dictator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:03 am
Posts: 14424
:lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:01 pm
Posts: 759
Rats. Changing the PRAM battery did not "work" . . . I even pushed the little reset button that is near the battery . . . tried un-plugging the HD and the "cable" going to the cpu . . . popped the RAM up and back in, etc . . . .

The machine "turns on" or powers up . . . but, there is no boot chime thingie happening . . . . Does that mean anything diagnostic??? HD and RAM are "new" as of a year and a half . . . cpu is "used" unit purchased via eBay to upgrade to 1.2 GHz . . . . Is it "dead"?? Or, any other things to try out?? I **could** try to put the old 400 MHz cpu back in if it seems like the cpu would be the suspect . . . but, now that the battery R&R hasn't worked . . . is the boot chime related to mobo tasks??

And, if so, continuing on with the total replacement philosophy . . . eBay for what is I believe a PowerMac 3,1??? mobo replacement or upgrade that would ***slip*** in? I still have a bunch of data that is PPC related, and if I can keep a machine going that will let me get to that data . . . I would try to keep a PPC connection that is useable. Certainly wouldn't mind getting more RAM capability . . . like if another mobo would allow that to happen . . . for a reasonable price??

Next step??? :g4:

e.e.p


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:19 pm 
Online
Benevolent Dictator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:03 am
Posts: 14424
Just asking, after the PRAM Battery replacement, did you try 3 PRAM Resets in a Row?

Does it boot into Open  Firmware with CMD+Option+o+f ?

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=42642

reset-nvram (press Enter)
set-defaults (press Enter)
reset-all (press Enter)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:01 pm
Posts: 759
I tried a PRAM reset, but, nothing happened . . . no chimes . . . so I didn't repeat. I'll check to see if I can do open firmware . . . tomorrow . . . . I'll report back if and when I've tried . . . .

Thanks

[Edit: Yep . . . nope . . . not surprisingly there was no boot to open firmware . . . . Something that I was able to do awhile back while going through the "new" cpu install process and it was ripping the guts out of the operating systems . . . . Now, the unchanging black emptiness . . . display light never changes to "blue" indicating that it is receiving "video" . . . . Nada . . . .]


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 2:51 pm 
Online
Benevolent Dictator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:03 am
Posts: 14424
Is there red LED lit up on the Logic Bord when it's plugged in?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 4:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:01 pm
Posts: 759
BDAqua wrote:
Is there red LED lit up on the Logic Bord when it's plugged in?


??? This would be a new level of diagnostic skill for me . . . this would be where the side panel is dropped open, plugged in . . .and somewhere there would be an LED light on the mobo that would be shining or flashing?

Or, this is something "external" on the case?? I'm usually unplugging the machine before popping open the side case, so when I was changing the battery it was **disconnected** from the power source, etc . . . nothing was obviously "red" . . . or "LED" or blinking or flashing . . . . But, I could try again . . . power cord is a little "short" reaching from where it's plugged in, another reason why it's unplugged to open the case.

e


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:39 pm 
Online
Benevolent Dictator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:03 am
Posts: 14424
Yes, side door open & a steady red LED, must have AC power...

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/40 ... 0&tstart=0

https://www.macrepaircentral.us/power-m ... oting.html


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:59 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:01 pm
Posts: 759
BD:

Thanks again for being there . . . I will check into that . . . prolly a few days . . . week starts off fast with work, possibly later in the week--I'll post back with the latest news of fresh disaster . . . . :badteeth: :fishsmack:

e..


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:11 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:02 pm
Posts: 971
Location: Melbourne
Your old PPC probably died of a broken heart with that new Intel Pro on the block, or more prosaically it is an old machine and they don't last forever.
I recall a good webapge on the startup sequence;
https://www.engadget.com/2010/10/22/mac ... arting-up/

As your startup chime is not sounding it is failing the POST (test) which suggests hardware failure, as mentioned. It is failing at the initial stage before it gets to the software so I'm not sure Diskwarrior can help you much at this point.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:24 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:01 pm
Posts: 759
@roam:

Thanks, yes . . . I "betrayed" the olde PPC unit and it passed away, alone . . . well, not "alone" but I guess having to hang around next to the super-duper Mac Pro . . . just let it pine away in relative neglect . . . . I was booting it up every month or so to run PPC U-MATE . . . I guess that wasn't enough to keep it interested in Life????

So, right, "hardware" . . . might still not be precise enough ??? Could be any aspect of "hardware" . . . or several . . . . Still haven't yet had the chance to check out for the mobo red LED light . . . still thinking it might be humorous to try to revive and zombie it forward . . . .

I did read back over the first few posts and possibly the BD posts on Rosetta, or whatever, iEmulator might be of interest to accessing the files that are PPC based . . . . What else? I do have Virtual Box installed in the 10.12 partition . . . if it's possible to install PPC OSs in to VB . . . Or, I have space on the MP that I could do a fresh install of 10.6 . . . and then try to find Rosetta . . . ???

As part of my "hardware education" project . . . I wouldn't mind finding a potential mobo replacement that could flog the beast forward, and possibly let it run more RAM than the present 2GB?? Life support/resuscitation therapy??? I definitely understand the "you are wasting your time" arguments as far as spending time with older machines, but . . . I still like the PPC era Apple machines . . . as "unique" . . . .

I'll post back with the LED report in a couple days . . . .


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:44 am 
Online
Benevolent Dictator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:03 am
Posts: 14424
Quote:
if it's possible to install PPC OSs in to VB . . . Or, I have space on the MP that I could do a fresh install of 10.6 . . . and then try to find Rosetta . . . ??

VB wouldn't help at all, but installing 10.6... on a Mac that can run 10.6 would work... minimum OS X for 2012 Mac Pro is 10.7.4 though.

Only PPC Macs that can use more than 2 GB of Ram are the PowerMac G5s, 4, 8, or 16 GB on the various models.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:02 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:01 pm
Posts: 759
BDAqua wrote:
VB wouldn't help at all, but installing 10.6... on a Mac that can run 10.6 would work... minimum OS X for 2012 Mac Pro is 10.7.4 though.

Only PPC Macs that can use more than 2 GB of Ram are the PowerMac G5s, 4, 8, or 16 GB on the various models.


Gack . . . min. is 10.7??? Well, I guess I'd be stuck with using my 09 MBPro . . . still have the 10.6 partition there . . . . And, depending upon what shows up on the PM 3,1 . . . might try to find that G5 you mentioned back at the beginning . . . . I checked the link to powermax that you provided and it doesn't look like they have any G4 or G5 towers . . . the link "errors" out . . . and they have a drop down menu that mentions G4, but, nothing there . . . . Of course it isn't at the top of the list of "needs" or "PPC bucketlist" . . . if I need something I can access it with the still stumbling along 933 MHz iBook with 654?? MB RAM . . . booting the external HD partition . . . .

But, still have a soft spot for PPC . . . even more so since Debian "dropped" it like a stone . . . beeyotches . . . .


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 181 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group