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 Post subject: Re: Lion...ugh
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:18 pm 
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Hi Nate! Good to hear from you again.

I'm confident touch-computing will get sorted out, but I'm not confident Apple will control a big stake in that market after the sorting is done. Today Apple's touch interfaces are as good as or better than anything else out there, but I don't know how much room there is to keep improving, and everyone else is catching up. With the interface advantages neutralized, other companies (less antagonistic to business) will move in and crowd Apple out. The business will become commodified. We've seen this happen already in the mobile phone market: before the iPhone mobile phone interfaces were very poor quality. Since the iPhone, they've become very similar to the iPhone -- now that there's not enough difference between the iPhone and its competitors in terms of interfaces, the decision to buy an iPhone versus anything else will come down to other factors. And in this environment, Android phones are doing better overall than Apple iPhones.

We saw a similar thing happen with the original Mac (although the factors there were more complicated). It seems exceedingly likely it will happen with tablets.

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 Post subject: Re: Lion...ugh
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 4:02 am 
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It seems that Apple will officially allow you to run client OSX within a virtualised environment under Lion. If, for OSX, they mean you can run Snow Leopard form within Lion it would at least be an official way to run applications that require Rosetta. A long winded stupid way but at least it would be official and provide a solution to the issue.

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 Post subject: Re: Lion...ugh
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:38 am 
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tested this bootable lion GM successfully. make a USB/firewire or cd from it :ugeek:

http://tinyurl.com/3gxzcbl


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 Post subject: Re: Lion...ugh
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 1:00 am 
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OK I finally went and update to 10.6.8 (and got hit by BOTH the IP printing bug AND the dead digital audio port bug - thanks Apple) and used my Lion redemption code to get the GM seed. But I have two irksome problems:

1) I'm stuck with my progress bar at 75%, yet the damned thing says 3.74 GB of 3.74 GB downloaded and hitting Resume says "six minutes left" with no advancement.

and...

2) I can't find where the blasted downloads are kept. They are NOT showing up on my boot drive at all, even though I now have roughly 3.7 GB of space now MIA and unreclaimable by the OS with no file to show for it.

So what the fuck is going on with this goddamned app store? It's slow, feels clunky, has NO configuration options on where to store my downloads. NONE. I'm on a freaking SSD for my boot drive. I do not have huge gobs of space to store downloads this way.

This is the new "user experience" Apple has in store for us from now on?

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 Post subject: Re: Lion...ugh
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:38 am 
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1. Same happened here, but stuck at 99%, yet it seemed whole & worked after reboot.

2. It puts it in the Applications folder, something like Max OS X Lion Installer.

3. Make sure to make a copy of it before Installing, as it wipes it out after the Install.

The App Store sucks for this in my opinion. :(


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 Post subject: Re: Lion...ugh
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:12 am 
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BDAqua wrote:
1. Same happened here, but stuck at 99%, yet it seemed whole & worked after reboot.

2. It puts it in the Applications folder, something like Max OS X Lion Installer.

3. Make sure to make a copy of it before Installing, as it wipes it out after the Install.

The App Store sucks for this in my opinion. :(


Except in my case it didn't put it in the Applications folder. It was invisible as it was "still downloading". No temp file to be found anywhere. So I cancelled the download and rebooted. Got my space "back" on my SSD but that's 3.7 GB of memory cells that were written to anyway and must be zeroed before they are "free" to have fast writes again. Not happy.

There needs to be a user control option for where to store downloads. SSD owners, especially on MBP/MBAs are doubly screwed with teh way the App Store works, requiring basically triple the space on the SSD available for both download and installation. Then the subsequent removal of said download after install = wasted write cycles to memory cells shortening SSD life.

SSD space doesn't grow on trees and I ain't rich enough to afford a 512 GB SSD.

Edit: And to top this all off, I can't re-download Lion. The app store, just like it does for every single fucking thing out there, becomes unresponsive and must be force quit when selecting any option other than my account status/redeem code.

Unfuckingbelievable.

So now I have no legit access to Lion GM to test out. Fuck me - 10.6.8 broke a crapton of shit that didn't need fixing (audio out, cpu issues, dock, spotlight [again]). Ya gotta love it when clicking Install in the app store brings up the beach ball of death. Endlessly.

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 Post subject: Re: Lion...ugh
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:37 am 
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That's an important point and with a little luck Apple will address it but then again …

I've been wondering about stealth downloads and if Apple will prefetch OS updates in the background, hiding them (or parts of them) away somewhere in anticipation of the user finally giving the upgrade the go ahead. That way they would be able to better balance the load on their servers at the expense of users' free space.

I'm sure that on more than one occasion iTunes has instantly updated when I gave it the OK. The only explanation I can find is that it was already downloaded and waiting to go when I said 'install'.

Of course this tactic would not go down well with SSD users.

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 Post subject: Re: Lion...ugh
PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:29 am 
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Avon B7 wrote:
That's an important point and with a little luck Apple will address it but then again …

I've been wondering about stealth downloads and if Apple will prefetch OS updates in the background, hiding them (or parts of them) away somewhere in anticipation of the user finally giving the upgrade the go ahead. That way they would be able to better balance the load on their servers at the expense of users' free space.

I'm sure that on more than one occasion iTunes has instantly updated when I gave it the OK. The only explanation I can find is that it was already downloaded and waiting to go when I said 'install'.

Of course this tactic would not go down well with SSD users.

I don't think it's really a "stealth download" when the option is right there in the Software Update preferences. I can't remember when they added it (it's been at least a few years), but I liked it when they added the option. It used to be either automatically download AND install or not do either. I never want to automatically install, but also hated waiting for a big update to download when I DID want to install.

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 Post subject: Re: Lion...ugh
PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:51 am 
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I have that option turned off so I get the download progress bar with updates but I think on two occasions iTunes has somehow automagically updated itself when I finally decided to install it. My connection is not the slowest but it's not fast enough for an iTunes install to be instant. The problem for me is that I haven't been following the issue closely so I don't know if the wife touched something without realising what was happening or something like that.

That said, I am successfully keeping iTunes 10.3 at bay :)

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 Post subject: Re: Lion...ugh
PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:21 am 
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Avon B7 wrote:
I have that option turned off so I get the download progress bar with updates but I think on two occasions iTunes has somehow automagically updated itself when I finally decided to install it. My connection is not the slowest but it's not fast enough for an iTunes install to be instant. The problem for me is that I haven't been following the issue closely so I don't know if the wife touched something without realising what was happening or something like that.

That said, I am successfully keeping iTunes 10.3 at bay :)


You'll still get the progress bar for downloads even if you select "Download and install later". Once downloaded, you can select it in the list and it'll pretty much do it instantly since it's already on your HD/SSD.

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 Post subject: Re: Lion...ugh
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:50 am 
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And on my front, I still haven't gotten around this problem of the app store beachballing when I click "Install" for my Lion GM Seed. Deleted the app store and reinstalled. No good. Re-ran the 10.6.8 combo updater. No good (and I had to revert to the 10.6.6 AppleHDA.kext a second time on top of that since 10.6.8's breaks the digital audio out on Mac Pros, or any mac actually).

Does apple really expect me to trust them with my money when their app store can't even handle a dev seed download right?

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 Post subject: Re: Lion...ugh
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:51 am 
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Remote delete. I hope 'that ping' is bulletproof from a security standpoint.

As for recovering/installing from the internet, well, I suppose the possibility is nice but backups are a must now, and if you have a backup, your chances of needing an over the air restore are reduced.

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 Post subject: Re: Lion...ugh
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:25 pm 
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Well, it's official (from earnings conference call) that Lion will be available tomorrow. No rush from me to get it just yet.

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 Post subject: Re: Lion...ugh
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:54 pm 
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I wish to live in the magical world of fairies and unicorns where hard drives never die, and everyone has an Internet connection fast enough to install THE ENTIRE MAC OPERATING SYSTEM before you'd die of starvation waiting for just the Epson printer drivers to finish being copied. I'd chuck a brick at these idiots, but then I'd be down a brick, and some day bricks are really going to be worth something after the brick companies decide that "bricks" are too old fashioned and replace them with digital virtual bricks. :nothappy:

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 Post subject: Re: Lion...ugh
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:36 pm 
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What a fantastic knack you have for expressing disdain along with a Hitchhiker's Guide like unreal explanation that is truer than reality! :coffee:


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 Post subject: Re: Lion...ugh
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:50 am 
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It looks like Apple will have Lion available on USB drives: http://www.macworld.com/article/161238/2011/07/lion_arrives.html


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 Post subject: Re: Lion...ugh
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:07 am 
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^ that's welcome news :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Lion...ugh
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:04 am 
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mc68k wrote:
^ that's welcome news :mrgreen:


Right. As welcome as telling the public "fuck you, DVDs aren't coming, suckers."

Instead of typing a new rant, I'll just quote my post from the WoW forums in the 10.7 thread:

Quote:
28723794410 wrote:
tiap my friend is having same issue you had with GM, with retail version. store is being dumb.


I finally got my Lion. Care to guess how?

1) Make new partition on my HD (after resizing the old large one to accomodate a new one, which in the process of doing os fubared my boot camp partition to the point I now have to run the XP recovery console to fix the MBR table).

2) Reinstall the OS. From scratch. None of this simple "re-run the combo updater" fix. Nope. Apple won't have any of that.

3) Wait for the download (again, afte five previous tries, eating a ton of bandwidth from my cap).

4) I now get to wipe the partition after copying my installer to a safe place (twice so I don't lose it when I DO install Lion), re-clone my 10.6.8 drive to the newly wiped partition, and then install Lion onto one of my SSDs. And I get to lose a significant chunk of that SSD to a recovery partition I neither want nor need.

What I'm probably going to end up doing is making a dual partition on an external HD, installing to that, and just cloning the main Lion partition to the SSD via carbon copy cloner and wiping the external completely, then re-cloning the SSD's Lion partition back to the HD so I have two working Lions without the recovery BS.

I gotta hand it to Apple - they certainly made the new OS a lousy user experience from the get go. I can't wait to see what I get to deal with in terms of bruehaha regarding the new sandboxing mechanisms. That's going to be fun.

Edit: Total estimated time to complete the above list of frakked up steps - about six hours. What should be a 15 minute job for the install and another 30 for the setup will require roughly six hours.

iCloud and Steve Jobs' obsession with its mechanisms can lick my hairy ass*.

If only WoW didn't require 10.7 just to finally run decently... :(


* Apparently Blizzard added "arse" to its filters. Yet "ass" isn't filtered. I hate this world.

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 Post subject: Re: Lion...ugh
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:23 pm 
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Squishy Tia wrote:
Right. As welcome as telling the public "fuck you, DVDs aren't coming, suckers.
well i'm torn...physical media for an OS should be a must. i know lenovo and sony sometimes pull the crap where you have to pay extra for physical media when purchasing a machine. apple isn't alone in this respect. optical media is starting to look like a floppy in my eyes

i was more pissed before i got that bootable 10.7 torrent. the people who are going to be the most pissed about 10.7/app store are people who have the means to find themselves a solution. i mean this is 2011, apple in the past has made some good forward-thinking transitions, however hastily. USB, floppy drives, etc. people who REALLY need the convenience of bootable media, but lack the torrent searching or DIY skills required to get it for free can spend an extra $40.

reinstalling OS X and programs isn't really that hard compared to the same Windows procedure. i think people are making a mountain out of a molehill here.

i'm not at all agreeing with the move, but i think in this day and age it's not an egregious decision. installing from optical media would take much longer than the USB2 solution anyways


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 Post subject: Re: Lion...ugh
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:09 pm 
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mc68k wrote:
Squishy Tia wrote:
Right. As welcome as telling the public "fuck you, DVDs aren't coming, suckers.
well i'm torn...physical media for an OS should be a must. i know lenovo and sony sometimes pull the crap where you have to pay extra for physical media when purchasing a machine. apple isn't alone in this respect. optical media is starting to look like a floppy in my eyes

i was more pissed before i got that bootable 10.7 torrent. the people who are going to be the most pissed about 10.7/app store are people who have the means to find themselves a solution. i mean this is 2011, apple in the past has made some good forward-thinking transitions, however hastily. USB, floppy drives, etc. people who REALLY need the convenience of bootable media, but lack the torrent searching or DIY skills required to get it for free can spend an extra $40.

reinstalling OS X and programs isn't really that hard compared to the same Windows procedure. i think people are making a mountain out of a molehill here.

i'm not at all agreeing with the move, but i think in this day and age it's not an egregious decision. installing from optical media would take much longer than the USB2 solution anyways


Reinstalling time isn't much of an issue. Longevity of the media used to store the OS installer is. USB drives can be erased. DVD-R/+Rs can bitrot (as you may have experienced in the past). Real DVDs don't rot for years and years unless the seal between layers is faulty. DVDs don't require a free USB port, which can be scarce on some computers (like I dunno, mine). And $69 for a USB drive that probably would cost me $15 at Fry's, tops = hardly a value.

As for the meticulous methods for initial install should one not want to be stuck with a recovery partition: Uh would you like to know how much free space I have left on my spare 40 GB SSD right now right after the install? Would you?

ONE. POINT. THREE. GIGABYTES.

That's it.

Now granted I had 15 GB of games on that drive already, that left 25 GB. So my OS install is 20 GB plus recovery partition.

Bloated as fucking hell.

Unfortunately I'm not gonna be on Lion for long, at least not for a while. USB Overdrive is broken in Lion and I kind of need it. For my mouse and controller (can't play WoW without both and neither work in Lion yet).

Utilities are gonna take a while....that's cool. But for the fucking love of god I WANT MY BLUE SCROLLBARS BACK.. These greyish ones from iOS are really fucking pissing me off as they're hard as hell to see against a white background.

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 Post subject: Re: Lion...ugh
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:08 pm 
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After no less than five attempts I can not get Lion installed on my Mac Mini Server either using the App Store download, burning the .DMG from the package to a DVD or from a USB stick.

I am going to try pulling the second hard drive,

I haven't tried on my original Intel Mac Mini yet.


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 Post subject: Re: Lion...ugh
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:11 pm 
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601 wrote:
After no less than five attempts I can not get Lion installed on my Mac Mini Server either using the App Store download, burning the .DMG from the package to a DVD or from a USB stick.

I am going to try pulling the second hard drive,

I haven't tried on my original Intel Mac Mini yet.


What error message is the installer giving you on your attempts? It should install just fine unless the download was corrupt.

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 Post subject: Re: Lion...ugh
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:53 pm 
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So has anyone successfully connected an XP system to a Lion share over SMB yet? At first glance it looks like whatever Apple cooked up to replace Samba (thanks for GPL3, RMS) requires Vista+.


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 Post subject: Re: Lion...ugh
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:08 am 
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MonkeyBoy wrote:
So has anyone successfully connected an XP system to a Lion share over SMB yet? At first glance it looks like whatever Apple cooked up to replace Samba (thanks for GPL3, RMS) requires Vista+.

Holy dealbreaker...
may stick with 1.5 for 5 more years.


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 Post subject: Re: Lion...ugh
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:00 am 
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Squishy Tia wrote:
601 wrote:
After no less than five attempts I can not get Lion installed on my Mac Mini Server either using the App Store download, burning the .DMG from the package to a DVD or from a USB stick.

I am going to try pulling the second hard drive,

I haven't tried on my original Intel Mac Mini yet.


What error message is the installer giving you on your attempts? It should install just fine unless the download was corrupt.


Nothing verbose, Installation failed, try again. I used the media to install it on my Macbook.


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